enemas

Quoted message said:

Subject: enemas
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/6/2003 9:29 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Has anyone got any real experience with them?
I have spoke to one person (who had cancer) who used them and he claimed
that they were soothing.
Thoughts?
Anth

My bowels nearly shut down, and I had to take them for awhile. I only used
water with a bit of soap, I found nothing soothing about them.

Jan

PS Joel Eichen had told many lies about me taking coffee enemas. That is a
total repeated lie, just one of many from him.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
rodney_victor <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The results indicate to me that it really is an effective detox
treatment. When time permits, I'd like to do the complete four-day
treatment.

You haven't showed that it's *any* kind of detox treatment, because
you have absolutely no information about any toxins that might have
been removed, in what quantity, or anything. About all you can be
sure of is that you rather enjoy moving your bowels vigorously.

You are either the most profoundly ignorant or are the meanest spirit I have
ever encoutered. You talk total nonsense.

Just because you do not like what he has to say does not make it
"nonsense." David is quite correct. The person he was responding to has
not demonstrated any of his claims for the "benefits" of enemas. What
David did not mention (and I would have mentioned, had I been the one
responding) is that the harm repeated enemas can cause IS
well-documented. Excessive enema use can on occasion even result in
death from electrolyte imbalances. Certainly chronic enema use can screw
up your colon every bit as much as chronic laxative use, to the point
that the colon can no longer evacuate itself without "help."
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
rodney_victor <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>The results indicate to me that it really is an effective detox
>treatment. When time permits, I'd like to do the complete four-day
>treatment.

You haven't showed that it's *any* kind of detox treatment, because
you have absolutely no information about any toxins that might have
been removed, in what quantity, or anything. About all you can be
sure of is that you rather enjoy moving your bowels vigorously.

You are either the most profoundly ignorant or are the meanest spirit I

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ever encoutered. You talk total nonsense.

Just because you do not like what he has to say does not make it
"nonsense." David is quite correct. The person he was responding to has
not demonstrated any of his claims for the "benefits" of enemas. What
David did not mention (and I would have mentioned, had I been the one
responding) is that the harm repeated enemas can cause IS
well-documented. Excessive enema use can on occasion even result in
death from electrolyte imbalances. Certainly chronic enema use can screw
up your colon every bit as much as chronic laxative use, to the point
that the colon can no longer evacuate itself without "help."

You show me that you lack any confidence in his abilities by speaking in
his
defence. You get cudos for lacking confidence in him.

[email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

rodney_victor said:

Ten years ago I used to have an enema regularly once every week. I
found it left me feeling nice and clean inside. I also found that a
lot of rather smelly material was evacuated every time I had an enema,
indicating that it was really helping to detoxify my insides. I
eventually gave up these regular enemas when the odours were reduced
and it appeared that I didn't really need the enemas any more.

Quoted message said:

You haven't showed that it's *any* kind of detox treatment, because
you have absolutely no information about any toxins that might have
been removed, in what quantity, or anything. About all you can be
sure of is that you rather enjoy moving your bowels vigorously.

It's a rather perfect illustration of something that I've come to suspect,
which is that many people who feel a need to "detox" are simply upset that
their [censored] stinks like everybody else's. Literally. Where did this notion
that odorless stools are a sign of health and smelly stools are a sign of
"toxicity" come from?

On 7 Oct 2003 17:10:55 GMT, Eric Bohlman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Literally. Where did this notion
that odorless stools are a sign of health and smelly stools are a sign of
"toxicity" come from?

Probably from some huckster trying to make a quick buck preying on the
fears of the somatically hypervigilant.

Aloha,

Rich

------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

You are either the most profoundly ignorant or are the meanest spirit
I have ever encoutered. You talk total nonsense.

Feel free to expose me, line by line. Until you can do that, your
whining is merely hot air.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> rodney_victor <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

> >The results indicate to me that it really is an effective detox
> >treatment. When time permits, I'd like to do the complete four-day
> >treatment.
>
> You haven't showed that it's *any* kind of detox treatment, because
> you have absolutely no information about any toxins that might have
> been removed, in what quantity, or anything. About all you can be
> sure of is that you rather enjoy moving your bowels vigorously.

You are either the most profoundly ignorant or are the meanest spirit I

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ever encoutered. You talk total nonsense.

Just because you do not like what he has to say does not make it
"nonsense." David is quite correct. The person he was responding to has
not demonstrated any of his claims for the "benefits" of enemas. What
David did not mention (and I would have mentioned, had I been the one
responding) is that the harm repeated enemas can cause IS
well-documented. Excessive enema use can on occasion even result in
death from electrolyte imbalances. Certainly chronic enema use can screw
up your colon every bit as much as chronic laxative use, to the point
that the colon can no longer evacuate itself without "help."

You show me that you lack any confidence in his abilities by speaking in
his defence. You get cudos for lacking confidence in him.

The word is "kudos." And I have objection to having my words expanded
upon by Orac; he's quite right. I didn't mention the dangers of
excessive enema use because it wasn't clear to me that the original
poster was using them to that level of excess (one per week, if I
remember right).

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> rodney_victor <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

> >The results indicate to me that it really is an effective detox
> >treatment. When time permits, I'd like to do the complete four-day
> >treatment.
>
> You haven't showed that it's *any* kind of detox treatment, because
> you have absolutely no information about any toxins that might have
> been removed, in what quantity, or anything. About all you can be
> sure of is that you rather enjoy moving your bowels vigorously.

You are either the most profoundly ignorant or are the meanest spirit I

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ever encoutered. You talk total nonsense.

Just because you do not like what he has to say does not make it
"nonsense." David is quite correct. The person he was responding to has
not demonstrated any of his claims for the "benefits" of enemas. What
David did not mention (and I would have mentioned, had I been the one
responding) is that the harm repeated enemas can cause IS
well-documented. Excessive enema use can on occasion even result in
death from electrolyte imbalances. Certainly chronic enema use can screw
up your colon every bit as much as chronic laxative use, to the point
that the colon can no longer evacuate itself without "help."

You show me that you lack any confidence in his abilities by speaking in
his
defence. You get cudos for lacking confidence in him.

Oh, please. Give me a break. That has to be the lamest retort I've heard
from you yet.

However, if that's the way you think of the original poster when a
person chimes in to defend that poster's point of view, if Jan or DEBBEE
or anyone else ever rushes to your defense, then you won't mind at all
if I come to the same conclusion--that they must lack confidence in your
abilities?
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
Date: 10/7/2003 9:47 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Orac; he's quite right.

Good ole boy and girl club syndrome.

ZZzz.

They are both wrong.

More myths from organized medicine.

Jan

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
Date: 10/7/2003 9:47 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Orac; he's quite right.

Good ole boy and girl club syndrome.

ZZzz.

They are both wrong.

More myths from organized medicine.

Really? What, specifically, about what I said was a "myth"? Do you have
the evidence to prove it's a "myth"?

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Eric Bohlman said:

[email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

rodney_victor said:

Ten years ago I used to have an enema regularly once every week. I
found it left me feeling nice and clean inside. I also found that a
lot of rather smelly material was evacuated every time I had an enema,
indicating that it was really helping to detoxify my insides. I
eventually gave up these regular enemas when the odours were reduced
and it appeared that I didn't really need the enemas any more.

Quoted message said:

You haven't showed that it's *any* kind of detox treatment, because
you have absolutely no information about any toxins that might have
been removed, in what quantity, or anything. About all you can be
sure of is that you rather enjoy moving your bowels vigorously.

It's a rather perfect illustration of something that I've come to suspect,
which is that many people who feel a need to "detox" are simply upset that
their [censored] stinks like everybody else's. Literally. Where did this notion
that odorless stools are a sign of health and smelly stools are a sign of
"toxicity" come from?

I have no idea. It's true that particularly stinky bowel movements can
occasionally be a sign of disease. For instance steatorrhea, or fat in
the stool, can be an indication of obstruction of the common bile duct,
pancreatic disease, or various other malabsorption syndromes. It is
very, very stinky. Another example is melena, which is the black, tarry
stool that comes from digested blood in somewhere in the digestive
tract. Melena has a very distinctive and foul odor that you will never
forget, once you've smelled it once. But these are specific examples.
The vast majority of the time, the bad smell of bowel movements does not
indicate disease. It's just the way bowel movements are.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Orac <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Eric Bohlman said:

It's a rather perfect illustration of something that I've come to
suspect, which is that many people who feel a need to "detox" are
simply upset that their [censored] stinks like everybody else's.
Literally. Where did this notion that odorless stools are a sign of
health and smelly stools are a sign of "toxicity" come from?

I have no idea. It's true that particularly stinky bowel movements can
occasionally be a sign of disease. For instance steatorrhea, or fat in
the stool, can be an indication of obstruction of the common bile
duct, pancreatic disease, or various other malabsorption syndromes. It
is very, very stinky. Another example is melena, which is the black,
tarry stool that comes from digested blood in somewhere in the
digestive tract. Melena has a very distinctive and foul odor that you
will never forget, once you've smelled it once. But these are specific
examples. The vast majority of the time, the bad smell of bowel
movements does not indicate disease. It's just the way bowel movements
are.

Just speculation, but it's "common knowledge" that people generally find
the odor of other people's stools more offensive than that of their own.
Freud came up with some rather nonsensical explanations for this. Since
the odor of anybody's stools varies a great deal from day to day, this
can't be the result of one's stools having a recognizable "olfactory
signature." I'm going to guess it has something to do with the fact that
some mid-brain structures have a fair amount of "editorial control" over
the perception of odors, much more so than with other senses, and that the
knowledge that it's ones own stool somehow attenuates the olfactory
perception.

If this mechanism, for whatever reason, didn't work in somebody, they might
find the ordinary odor of their own stools particularly offensive and seek
to eliminate (hehe!) it, and might attribute it to pathological causes. In
fact, you could regard the phenomenon as a form of somatic hypervigilance,
and anecdotally it seems that excessive concern about "proper stools"
correlates with other forms of somatic hypervigilance.

Some people with a "proper stool" fixation also seem to think that healthy
people don't produce any mucus. That seems to fit in with a general
resentment toward normal human physiology; they're "grossed out" by normal
body functions. That's probably more purely psychological rather than
neurobiological, and may have to do with the way they were raised. It's as
if they're ashamed to be human.

Of course some people may just be really credulous and accept the
nonsensical claims of charismatic charlatans. That reminds me of the old
Andy Griffith episode where Barney Fife joins the town choir, with rather
disastrous effects on its harmony. The other members manage to convince
him that the presence of his uvula indicates a serious throat problem that
would be aggravated by singing.

Quoted message said:

From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 10/7/2003 3:49 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

somatic hypervigilance.

Quoted message said:

phenomenon

Quoted message said:

somatic hypervigilance,

Quoted message said:

purely psychological

Translation:

Organized medicine doesn't endorse it, you are crazy.

Jan

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 10/7/2003 3:49 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

somatic hypervigilance.

Quoted message said:

phenomenon

Quoted message said:

somatic hypervigilance,

Quoted message said:

purely psychological

Translation:

Organized medicine doesn't endorse it, you are crazy.

Translation: Jan is delusional and believes everyone who attributes
improvement to psychologic factors is either a member of organized
medicine or is brainwashed by conventional medicine.

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

Jan

------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance.

In said:

It's a rather perfect illustration of something that I've come to suspect,
which is that many people who feel a need to "detox" are simply upset that
their [censored] stinks like everybody else's. Literally. Where did this notion
that odorless stools are a sign of health and smelly stools are a sign of
"toxicity" come from?

Marketing.

--
| "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
| completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email hidden]> ----------+

In said:

Just speculation, but it's "common knowledge" that people generally find
the odor of other people's stools more offensive than that of their own.
Freud came up with some rather nonsensical explanations for this. Since
the odor of anybody's stools varies a great deal from day to day, this
can't be the result of one's stools having a recognizable "olfactory
signature." I'm going to guess it has something to do with the fact that
some mid-brain structures have a fair amount of "editorial control" over
the perception of odors, much more so than with other senses, and that the
knowledge that it's ones own stool somehow attenuates the olfactory
perception.

Your olfactory sense filters out "stuff" circulating in
your system. Classic example: garlic. Since that kind
of circulatory aromatic adds somewhat to fecal odor, you
are "missing out" on some of your own that you would
notice in another's.

Now can we change the subject?

--
| "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
| completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email hidden]> ----------+

The correct name of the Dr Kelley book that I mentioned earlier is
"One Answer to Cancer", and not "A Cancer Cure" as I said. I think the
latter was the book by Dr Max Gerson.

Orac said:

What results, some stinky [censored] and some foaming? You could get the same
results by sticking some Pop Rocks up your behind. Geez, you don't ask
for much evidence to convince you that something works, do you? You've
shown no evidence that you had any "toxin buildup," what those "toxins"
might have been, and that the enemas did anything at all to eliminate
them. You sound like the perfect customer for Glowlife Dave, who will
almost certainly want to sell you some Ginseng at $300 for a 150 g tin.

When I did my enema treatments 10 years ago, the results were some
usual and not particularly pleasant odours that I had never noticed
previously and which gradually declined as I continued the weekly
treatments. The decline in these odours indicated to me that the lower
parts of my bowels were being cleaned out by the enema treatments.

My Epsom Salts treatments produced, not merely some stinky [censored], but
some REALLY FOUL-SMELLING [censored] and A LOT OF FOAMING. For me, that is
sufficient proof that the treatments were removing a lot of old putrid
matter that had accumulated in my bowels.

I don't care in the least what the name of that putrid matter is. I'm
just happy that it's gone.

Organised medicine and Big Pharma do not want people to use simple
treatments that they can do for themselves without the assistance of
the medicine men. That is why the agents of organised medicine and Big
Pharma are so busy in this newsgroup rubbishing such treatments.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(rodney_victor) said:

The correct name of the Dr Kelley book that I mentioned earlier is
"One Answer to Cancer", and not "A Cancer Cure" as I said. I think the
latter was the book by Dr Max Gerson.

It doesn't matter. Neither of them have any good scientific evidence
that they work.

Quoted message said:

Orac said:

What results, some stinky [censored] and some foaming? You could get the same
results by sticking some Pop Rocks up your behind. Geez, you don't ask
for much evidence to convince you that something works, do you? You've
shown no evidence that you had any "toxin buildup," what those "toxins"
might have been, and that the enemas did anything at all to eliminate
them. You sound like the perfect customer for Glowlife Dave, who will
almost certainly want to sell you some Ginseng at $300 for a 150 g tin.

When I did my enema treatments 10 years ago, the results were some
usual and not particularly pleasant odours that I had never noticed
previously and which gradually declined as I continued the weekly
treatments. The decline in these odours indicated to me that the lower
parts of my bowels were being cleaned out by the enema treatments.

My Epsom Salts treatments produced, not merely some stinky [censored], but
some REALLY FOUL-SMELLING [censored] and A LOT OF FOAMING. For me, that is
sufficient proof that the treatments were removing a lot of old putrid
matter that had accumulated in my bowels.

No, it was just removing a lot of [censored], and there's a lot more where
that came from. It's the function of the colon to process the waste and
get rid of it. Or, as we say about the colon, [censored] happens.

Quoted message said:

I don't care in the least what the name of that putrid matter is. I'm
just happy that it's gone.

Try your treatment again and you will get exactly the same results as
you did 10 years ago. The treatment got rid of nothing that isn't there
normally.

Quoted message said:

Organised medicine and Big Pharma do not want people to use simple
treatments that they can do for themselves without the assistance of
the medicine men. That is why the agents of organised medicine and Big
Pharma are so busy in this newsgroup rubbishing such treatments.

Oh, please. You'll have to do way better than that if you want to do
more than just preach to the choir. That's the oldest, lamest whine
there is on this topic.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Eric Bohlman said:

Some people with a "proper stool" fixation also seem to think that healthy
people don't produce any mucus. That seems to fit in with a general
resentment toward normal human physiology; they're "grossed out" by normal
body functions. That's probably more purely psychological rather than
neurobiological, and may have to do with the way they were raised. It's as
if they're ashamed to be human.

Indeed. The body makes mucous, and a lot of it, in various body
cavities. It can be kind of gross, but the mucous serves a purpose. In a
healthy person, getting rid of it serves little or no purpose. I've also
noticed that people with the "proper stool" fixation frequently also
seem to view sex as disgusting and shameful, because of the body fluids
involved.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"