UK and Europe · Public discussion

barmy merkin

Started by Ian Smith · · Last activity · 24 posts · 1,049 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
UK and Europe
Published
19 July 2003
Last activity
22 July 2003
Original author
Ian Smith
Posts
24
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,049
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 24
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Here's a good one:

    illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.asp

    Apparently, spending money on cycle facilities is a way of brainwashing people into thinking it
    would be a good idea to live in sustainable communities and thus deprive them of their right to own
    a car! Heaven forbid that "we can ride our bicycles and walk for most of our needs and use mass
    transit for any other needed travel". She's not objecting that cars will be taken away or
    unaffordable when they're necesary for everyday life, she's upset that there might come a time when
    they won't be necesary.

    The conclusion: "If you are a biker, please ride responsibly on a trail that has been provided for
    your entertainment, and for your own safety and the safety of others, please keep off the highways."

    Anyhow, she's "a chapter leader for Concerned Women for America", which sounds like a seriously
    scary organisation.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  2. in article [email hidden], Ian Smith at [email hidden] wrote on
    19/7/2003 4:29 pm:

    Quoted message said:

    illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.asp

    I replied, as ever.

    Re your op-ed piece on cyclists. Which is much more op than ed, I suggest.

    The thing which leaps off the page is this: "We were in our car. We had our seat belts on as
    required by the law - our insurance and license fees were paid. We had paid fuel tax when we
    purchased our gasoline. Now wouldn¹t you think that would give us a bit of a priority?"

    No, it doesn't. Cyclists use the roads by right of way whereas drivers use them under licence.
    That's mostly because almost all the danger on the roads (and practically all of the appalling death
    toll) is caused by motor vehicle drivers. The nugatory tax on gasoline does not come anywhere close
    to funding the direct and indirect costs of car use to the economy You are required to wear seat
    belts because drivers routinely drive into each other, the landscape and the local flora to the
    detriment of all concerned. Most club cyclists are insured, as are their bikes, which can cost
    thousands of dollars. In other words, they have a right to be there whether you like it or not.

    And, after all, they pose very little danger to you - and you only pose a danger to them if your
    impatience is such that you can't wait for a safe place before passing. Which would be so
    unchristian that I can't believe you would do such a crass and dangerous thing, would you? Or does
    the conservative Bible omit the inconvenient Beatitudes?

    In any case, perhaps before you denounce cyclists for not using the bikeways you should ask them why
    they don't. You may be surprised. For example, they might tell you that road bikes don't work well
    on graded trails, but do work well on paved roads (the clue is in the name, here). A wheelset
    costing several hundred dollars can be ruined by one excursion on a bike trail. Or one excursion on
    a freshly-planed road, which may explain why the riders you saw were proceeding cautiously.

    Maybe you don't know that two of the foremost cyclists competing in the world's most famous bicycle
    race are American - perhaps you would be quite content for Lance Armstrong's talent to have withered
    on the vine due to his being excluded from the roads paid for out of his tax dollars and built as a
    result of the campaigning of the League of American Wheelmen - bicyclists to you - but I think you
    will find that many others don't share that view. Maybe you dismiss Tyler Hamilton's incredible
    determination, competing in a race the equivalent of running a marathon every day for three weeks
    despite a broken collarbone - or maybe you think Americans don't need to set or see that kind of
    example. After all, what country needs the kind of determination which allows a man in constant
    agony to be standing in fifth place in the most gruelling sporting event in the world? Who needs
    that kind of drive?

    Perhaps you will also find that transportational cyclists rarely find bikeways going where they want
    to go, so they use the roads - which generally do. That's what the roads are for: vehicles. You may
    be surprised: some cyclists also pay tax (and not all of them benefit from the rather generous
    subsidies which you get in return). The inability to appreciate the difference between 100 mile
    rides at a reasonable pace and leisure rides which involve trundling along bikeways is not unique to
    you, of course. I rode 100 miles on each of the last two Sundays, so I understand this better than
    you seem to.

    On the other hand maybe you are sufficiently convinced that any car driver's journey is
    automatically more important than any cyclist's that you simply don't care. This is a point of view
    which is nicely covered in the dictionary under "arrogance."

    One recommendation: don't knock until you've tried it. Get out and ride and maybe you'll see what
    it's all about.

    Guy Chapman

  3. "Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Here's a good one:

    illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.asp

    It is from "Illinois' Conservative News Source" -- and remember, their conservatives make our right
    wing nutters look positively sane : (

    Guy will probably be snatched by Delta Force and sent to Guantanamo (sp) Bay for ever & ever.

    T

  4. you know? said:

    Cyclists use the roads by right of way whereas drivers use them under licence.

    While I agree with the latter point, I've hear the former a few times but never backed up by a
    reference to an Act. Can someone provide a reference, or is it just an inferred right because you
    have right of way on foot and thereby by non-motorised vehicle?

    And does anyone truly have right of way on a road given that it's all the 'Queen's Highway' and
    we're her subjects[1]?

    [1] Rather than citizens as a lot of people would like to believe.
    --
    "We take these risks, not to escape from life, but to prevent life escaping from us." ***** replace
    'spam' with 'ben' to reply *****

  5. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    in article [email hidden], Ian Smith at [email hidden] wrote on
    19/7/2003 4:29 pm:

    Quoted message said:

    illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.asp

    I replied, as ever.

    Re your op-ed piece on cyclists. Which is much more op than ed, I


    suggest.

    Quoted message said:


    The thing which leaps off the page is this: "We were in our car. We had


    our

    Quoted message said:

    seat belts on as required by the law - our insurance and license fees were paid. We had paid fuel
    tax when we purchased our gasoline. Now wouldn¹t


    you

    Quoted message said:

    think that would give us a bit of a priority?"

    No, it doesn't. Cyclists use the roads by right of way whereas drivers


    use

    Quoted message said:

    them under licence. That's mostly because almost all the danger on the roads (and practically all
    of the appalling death toll) is caused by motor vehicle drivers. The nugatory tax on gasoline does
    not come anywhere


    close

    Quoted message said:

    to funding the direct and indirect costs of car use to the economy You


    are

    Quoted message said:

    required to wear seat belts because drivers routinely drive into each


    other,

    Quoted message said:

    the landscape and the local flora to the detriment of all concerned. Most club cyclists are
    insured, as are their bikes, which can cost thousands of dollars. In other words, they have a
    right to be there whether you like


    it

    Quoted message said:

    or not.

    And, after all, they pose very little danger to you - and you only pose a danger to them if your
    impatience is such that you can't wait for a safe place before passing. Which would be so
    unchristian that I can't believe you would do such a crass and dangerous thing, would you? Or does
    the conservative Bible omit the inconvenient Beatitudes?

    In any case, perhaps before you denounce cyclists for not using the


    bikeways

    Quoted message said:

    you should ask them why they don't. You may be surprised. For example, they might tell you that
    road bikes don't work well on graded trails, but


    do

    Quoted message said:

    work well on paved roads (the clue is in the name, here). A wheelset costing several hundred
    dollars can be ruined by one excursion on a bike trail. Or one excursion on a freshly-planed road,
    which may explain why


    the

    Quoted message said:

    riders you saw were proceeding cautiously.

    Maybe you don't know that two of the foremost cyclists competing in the world's most famous
    bicycle race are American - perhaps you would be quite content for Lance Armstrong's talent to
    have withered on the vine due to


    his

    Quoted message said:

    being excluded from the roads paid for out of his tax dollars and built as


    a

    Quoted message said:

    result of the campaigning of the League of American Wheelmen - bicyclists


    to

    Quoted message said:

    you - but I think you will find that many others don't share that view. Maybe you dismiss Tyler
    Hamilton's incredible determination, competing in


    a

    Quoted message said:

    race the equivalent of running a marathon every day for three weeks


    despite

    Quoted message said:

    a broken collarbone - or maybe you think Americans don't need to set or


    see

    Quoted message said:

    that kind of example. After all, what country needs the kind of determination which allows a man
    in constant agony to be standing in fifth place in the most gruelling sporting event in the world?
    Who needs that kind of drive?

    Perhaps you will also find that transportational cyclists rarely find bikeways going where they
    want to go, so they use the roads - which generally do. That's what the roads are for: vehicles.
    You may be surprised: some cyclists also pay tax (and not all of them benefit from


    the

    Quoted message said:

    rather generous subsidies which you get in return). The inability to appreciate the difference
    between 100 mile rides at a reasonable pace and leisure rides which involve trundling along
    bikeways is not unique to you, of course. I rode 100 miles on each of the last two Sundays, so I
    understand this better than you seem to.

    On the other hand maybe you are sufficiently convinced that any car


    driver's

    Quoted message said:

    journey is automatically more important than any cyclist's that you simply don't care. This is a
    point of view which is nicely covered in the dictionary under "arrogance."

    One recommendation: don't knock until you've tried it. Get out and ride


    and

    Quoted message said:

    maybe you'll see what it's all about.

    Guy Chapman

    Are you appling for a place in parliment in the near future, Guy, perchance? If you do I'll vote for
    you (I'll have to move first though!)

    Pete White

  6. in article [email hidden], Tony W at [email hidden] wrote on
    19/7/2003 8:23 pm:

    Quoted message said:

    It is from "Illinois' Conservative News Source" -- and remember, their conservatives make our
    right wing nutters look positively sane : (

    I have been told with great confidence by a Mad Septic that I am an extreme left-winger, and that
    the Grauniad is a "hard left British newspaper" - so yes I do know that the centre in American
    politics corresponds roughly with the more intransigent elements of the No Turning Back group, and
    the Right in American politics is to the right even of Blunkett.

    Guy

  7. in article [email hidden], Ben at [email hidden] wrote on
    19/7/2003 5:35 pm:

    Quoted message said:

    While I agree with the latter point, I've hear the former a few times but never backed up by a
    reference to an Act.

    I think it's covered by the Road Traffic Acts in the UK, not sure the name of the leur in the USA
    (which is where this particular whacknut is from)

    Quoted message said:

    And does anyone truly have right of way on a road given that it's all the 'Queen's Highway' and
    we're her subjects[1]?

    I think we do, by Act of Parliament, but in theory Brenda could probably overturn same if she chose.

    Guy

  8. Quoted message said:

    While I agree with the latter point, I've hear the former a few times but never backed up by a
    reference to an Act. Can someone provide a reference, or is it just an inferred right because you
    have right of way on foot and thereby by non-motorised vehicle?

    Every state has its own laws, and there are a few extras, like the District of Colubia, and, I
    presume, Guantanamo Bay. However, the authorities everywhere are aways very keen to keep the licence
    a privilege, not a right. If it was a right, any attempt to suspend somebody's licence might tie up
    the courts for years.

    Jeremy Parker

  9. in article [email hidden], wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX at
    [email hidden] wrote on 19/7/2003
    8:58 pm:

    Quoted message said:

    the American Right, makes Attila the Hun look positively communist

    Certainly they appear to think Margaret Thatcher was a dangerous liberal.

    Guy

  10. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I have been told with great confidence by a Mad Septic that I am an


    extreme

    Quoted message said:

    left-winger, and that the Grauniad is a "hard left British newspaper" - so yes I do know that the
    centre in American politics corresponds roughly


    with

    Quoted message said:

    the more intransigent elements of the No Turning Back group, and the Right in American politics is
    to the right even of Blunkett.

    Remember, in American politics there are two parties. One is xenophobic, extremely right wing, often
    racist, considers any state intervention as dangerously communist, supports the NRA, supports the
    'war on terror', is dominated by the right wing Christians in the bible belt and would be outlawed
    as extremist in any European country (except Switzerland).

    Then you have the Republicans. Now they really are off the wall.

    T

    Bugger -- looks like we will be sharing cells in Cuba now 🙁

  11. Ian Smith said:

    illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.asp

    I hate Illinois Nazis.

  12. "Ben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    you know? said:

    Cyclists use the roads by right of way whereas drivers use them under licence.

    While I agree with the latter point, I've hear the former a few times but never backed up by a
    reference to an Act. Can someone provide a reference, or is it just an inferred right because you
    have right of way on foot and thereby by non-motorised vehicle?

    Pedestrians and cyclists don't require a licence to operate their mode of transport. Cars, buses,
    trucks, etc require the operator to be in possession of a valid licence under the law of the land.

    It's that simple.

    Quoted message said:

    And does anyone truly have right of way on a road given that it's all the 'Queen's Highway' and
    we're her subjects[1]?

    [1] Rather than citizens as a lot of people would like to believe.

    Many of us like to believe things that are true. It is not true that UK citizens are not citizens.

    Read ind.homeoffice.gov.ukdefault.asp for example.

    If you know something about these acts having been repealed, please do share. Otherwise, stop
    perpetuating this ridiculous claptrap.

    --
    Mark South: Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net "I wonder why so many Finnish traditions are
    related with booze?"
    - Juha Sakkinen

  13. "Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in


    message

    Quoted message said:

    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I have been told with great confidence by a Mad Septic that I am an


    extreme

    Quoted message said:

    left-winger, and that the Grauniad is a "hard left British


    newspaper" - so

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    yes I do know that the centre in American politics corresponds


    roughly

    Quoted message said:

    with

    Quoted message said:

    the more intransigent elements of the No Turning Back group, and the


    Right

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in American politics is to the right even of Blunkett.

    Remember, in American politics there are two parties. One is


    xenophobic,

    Quoted message said:

    extremely right wing, often racist, considers any state intervention


    as

    Quoted message said:

    dangerously communist, supports the NRA, supports the 'war on terror',


    is

    Quoted message said:

    dominated by the right wing Christians in the bible belt and would be outlawed as extremist in any
    European country (except Switzerland).

    ITYM "(EVEN Swizerland)" :-)

    Quoted message said:

    Then you have the Republicans. Now they really are off the wall.

    And to both of those, people who don't consume enough oil are Enemies of the State (TM). Like
    cyclists for example.

    Quoted message said:

    Bugger -- looks like we will be sharing cells in Cuba now 🙁

    Guantanamo Bay isn't Cuba, it's a USA Dependent Territory. Belongs to the US but doesn't share its
    laws - hence the location for the detention centre.

    --
    Mark South: Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net "I wonder why so many Finnish traditions are
    related with booze?"
    - Juha Sakkinen

  14. Tony W said:


    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I have been told with great confidence by a Mad Septic that I am an


    extreme

    Quoted message said:

    left-winger, and that the Grauniad is a "hard left British newspaper" - so yes I do know that the
    centre in American politics corresponds roughly


    with

    Quoted message said:

    the more intransigent elements of the No Turning Back group, and the Right in American politics
    is to the right even of Blunkett.

    Remember, in American politics there are two parties. One is xenophobic, extremely right wing,
    often racist, considers any state intervention as dangerously communist, supports the NRA, supports
    the 'war on terror', is dominated by the right wing Christians in the bible belt and would be
    outlawed as extremist in any European country (except Switzerland).

    Then you have the Republicans. Now they really are off the wall.

    Being a 'practical advocate' for 20 odd years, I'm pretty partial to a helping of Charlie Parker and
    Morton Feldman when I'm in the mood. Few good films too. Not to mention books.

    Anyway, crackpots everywhere - including here.

    We just overlook 'everybody else' when we mount those high horses.

    Still......great day of sport tomorrow <Sunday>.

    And I've started to mitre!!!!...will they hold??

    Garry

  15. Andy Dingley <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Ian Smith said:

    illinoisleader.comcolumnistsview.asp

    I hate Illinois Nazis.

    If I'm bored & want to laugh at some loony American right-wingers, I often check out this site:
    townhall.comtownhall.com

    Hilarious & worrying at the same time.

  16. in article [email hidden], Andy Dingley at [email hidden] wrote
    on 20/7/2003 12:49 am:

    Quoted message said:

    I hate Illinois Nazis.

    Our lady of blessed acceleration, don't fail me now!

    Guy

  17. On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:14:42 +0100 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the American Right, makes Attila the Hun look positively communist

    Certainly they appear to think Margaret Thatcher was a dangerous liberal.


    I wonder what they think of Winston Churchill then? Despite the posturings of the Tories (in the Mad
    Woman of Finchley's time) he was not the right wing zealot those with little knowledge of his life
    tend to think.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
    keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

  18. "David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:14:42 +0100 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the American Right, makes Attila the Hun look positively communist

    Certainly they appear to think Margaret Thatcher was a dangerous liberal.


    I wonder what they think of Winston Churchill then? Despite the posturings of the Tories (in the
    Mad Woman of Finchley's time) he was not the right wing zealot those with little knowledge of his
    life tend to think.

    That's no way to refer to the 'leader of the free world'.

  19. Mark South said:

    "Ben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    you know? said:

    Cyclists use the roads by right of way whereas drivers use them under licence.

    While I agree with the latter point, I've hear the former a few times but never backed up by a
    reference to an Act. Can someone provide a reference, or is it just an inferred right because you
    have right of way on foot and thereby by non-motorised vehicle?

    Pedestrians and cyclists don't require a licence to operate their mode of transport. Cars, buses,
    trucks, etc require the operator to be in possession of a valid licence under the law of the land.

    It's that simple.

    I meant where is it enshrined (what a top word :-)) in law that we have a _right_ whether on foot or
    cycle to use a road? The way I see it, is just because we don't need a licence, doesn't
    automatically confer a right.
    --
    "We take these risks, not to escape from life, but to prevent life escaping from us." ***** replace
    'spam' with 'ben' to reply *****

  20. Just zis Guy said:

    in article [email hidden], wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX at
    [email hidden] wrote on
    19/7/2003 8:58 pm:

    Quoted message said:

    the American Right, makes Attila the Hun look positively communist

    Certainly they appear to think Margaret Thatcher was a dangerous liberal.

    Guy

    I met some college graduates in Millwaulkee back in 1988 that thought she was the Queen.
    --
    Mark Road bike, Mountain bike and I'm getting something special built for me (I hope it will
    arrive soon).

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.