General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Mice and men

Started by C W Browne · · Last activity · 3 posts · 308 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
12 September 2003
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12 September 2003
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C W Browne
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  1. Thousands of mice especially, but also other animals, are at this moment
    routinely being subjected to all sorts of cruel experiments to develop drugs
    or procedures or to investigate a multitude of medical theories.
    These painful procedures are then reduced to statistics that are commonly
    reported in the literature and extrapolated as meaning something for human
    beings.

    Such practices are widespread in conventional medical research, fortunately
    far less common in the case of alternative therapies but sometimes also
    resorted to.
    All this suffering is supposedly justified on the basis that it is for the
    benefit of man. But I wonder if this is not evil masquerading as good.

    The question is: Does God approve of cruel experiments on animals for
    medical or other purposes?
    I cannot believe that He does.

    Christopher Browne.

  2. I would ask you to think very carefully about the consequences of not doing
    animal experiments to develop new drugs or test new medical theories. As for
    the medical theories the alternative is to either do the experiments on
    human beings, which would amont to murder and torture (think Dachau), or not
    develop new theories at all. That means no more progress in medical science.
    For the pharmaceutical industry, it might mean that new drugs are being
    developed but nolonger tested extensively in a number of animals. Remember
    the rohypnol catastrophe? DES? Softenon? These are but a few examples of
    what could happen if drugs aren't tested properly, and even with proper and
    extensive testing there are no guarantuees that the drugs will behave in
    humans the way they're supposed to. That's not to say that animal
    experimentation is useless, it's just difficult to interpret and one must be
    careful not be overly confident about the safety of drugs when they enter
    human experimentation. So, no extensive testing before going to the human
    situation with a drug could cause catastrophes like the ones I mentioned to
    happen all over again. So, okay, just go directly to the human situation and
    do all the tests that one would in animals in humans. Not a good idea,
    unless you're prepared to commit horrible torture and murder, Dachau style.

    It might also mean no new drugs. None, never again. And I don't mean no new
    "me toos" (such as the umpteenth ace-inhibitor) but really new drugs. Such
    as less toxic agents against some forms of cancer, good alternatives for
    anti-biotics (and time may be running out on that one) or maybe that cure
    against malaria. It wouldn't happen, because pharmaceutical research
    wouldn't exist anymore. Some may believe that would be a good thing, and if
    you do please lay off the aspirin, the elavil, tramadol or prozac. Don't
    take anti-biotics, don't have that treatment when you have cencer, because
    it's all developed by the evil drug companies.

    Medical and pharmaceutical scientists, all over the world, are working
    towards developing alternatives to animal experimentation. But the problem
    will always be that it's impossible to get the full picture of what would
    happen in a whole body when all you can study are a few cells; and it's
    equally impossible to develop a computer model of that what you don't know.
    Alternatives will and do arrive, but it won't completely stop animal
    experimentation.
    I agree that care must be taken when ever an animal is "sacrificed" for
    science, and it mustn't be taken lightly, but I do think that it really is a
    nessecary evil.

    --

    Robert Bronsing

    Can't you see?
    It all makes perfect sense,
    expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

    (R. Waters)

  3. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Mice and men
    From: "Bronsing" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/12/2003 1:10 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    I would ask you to think very carefully about the consequences of not doing
    animal experiments to develop new drugs or test new medical theories. As for
    the medical theories the alternative is to either do the experiments on
    human beings, which would amont to murder and torture (think Dachau), or not
    develop new theories at all. That means no more progress in medical science.
    For the pharmaceutical industry, it might mean that new drugs are being
    developed but nolonger tested extensively in a number of animals. Remember
    the rohypnol catastrophe? DES? Softenon? These are but a few examples of
    what could happen if drugs aren't tested properly, and even with proper and
    extensive testing there are no guarantuees that the drugs will behave in
    humans the way they're supposed to. That's not to say that animal
    experimentation is useless, it's just difficult to interpret and one must be
    careful not be overly confident about the safety of drugs when they enter
    human experimentation. So, no extensive testing before going to the human
    situation with a drug could cause catastrophes like the ones I mentioned to
    happen all over again. So, okay, just go directly to the human situation and
    do all the tests that one would in animals in humans. Not a good idea,
    unless you're prepared to commit horrible torture and murder, Dachau style.

    It might also mean no new drugs. None, never again. And I don't mean no new
    "me toos" (such as the umpteenth ace-inhibitor) but really new drugs. Such
    as less toxic agents against some forms of cancer, good alternatives for
    anti-biotics (and time may be running out on that one) or maybe that cure
    against malaria. It wouldn't happen, because pharmaceutical research
    wouldn't exist anymore. Some may believe that would be a good thing, and if
    you do please lay off the aspirin, the elavil, tramadol or prozac. Don't
    take anti-biotics, don't have that treatment when you have cencer, because
    it's all developed by the evil drug companies.

    Medical and pharmaceutical scientists, all over the world, are working
    towards developing alternatives to animal experimentation. But the problem
    will always be that it's impossible to get the full picture of what would
    happen in a whole body when all you can study are a few cells; and it's
    equally impossible to develop a computer model of that what you don't know.
    Alternatives will and do arrive, but it won't completely stop animal
    experimentation.
    I agree that care must be taken when ever an animal is "sacrificed" for
    science, and it mustn't be taken lightly, but I do think that it really is a
    nessecary evil.

    A really tough question, but I must agree. What other choice do we have??

    Jan

    Quoted message said:

    Robert Bronsing

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