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Battle over Botox

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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11 July 2003
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14 July 2003
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D. C. Sessions
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  1. In said:

    A recent muscle & fitness mag I read (forget whether it was "Muscular
    Development" or "Muscle & Fitness"😉 mentioned the use of botox being studied
    WRT relieving chronic back pain. Preliminary findings indicate possible
    success, & in light of what botox actually does it may have some benefits to
    offer those unable to get relief otherwise.

    Yup, and some orthopaedists have kicked around the idea of using
    it to prevent patients from stressing comminuted fractures before
    the bones are well-calloused. Trouble is, botox lasts too long.

    --
    | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
    | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
    | for new products or new versions of existing products." |
    end

  2. Battle over Botox

    Lawsuit alleges malpractice from Hollywood doctor

    EXCERPTS:

    But she also blames Dr. Klein for not telling her he was a paid
    consultant to the company that makes Botox, which she maintains was a
    conflict of interest.

    But what they're trying to keep the public from knowing is that there
    are a lot of people what are not going to be helped and are gonna be
    hurt."

    Some of the reported reactions have been mild, but some of them have
    been serious and associated with hospitalization, disability, even
    death.

    For Mrs. Medavoy the low-point since filing her lawsuit, she says,
    was finding out she was being followed by private investigators. She
    filed a stalking report, and "Dateline" was with her when officers
    stopped a private investigator, one of three we saw shadowing her.
    That's just business as usual, according to the drug manufacturer's
    general counsel,...

    The FDA has cited the drug company in the past for promotional
    literature that was "misleading" and "minimizing of side effects."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    http://www.msnbc.com/news/927823.asp

    NBC NEWS

    June 17 — It's the drug of choice for millions who want to keep
    looking young and appealing. A Botox shot for wrinkles is the fastest
    growing cosmetic procedure in the country, with women and men flocking
    to doctors, to spas, even to so-called "Botox parties" for the
    injections. Now there's a Botox lawsuit, a case involving a well-known
    Hollywood doctor, that's making some of the rich and famous both
    anxious and angry.

    ENTER THE WORLD of 44-year-old Irena Medavoy and her Botox
    horror story. She says the hottest drug on the cosmetic market nearly
    ruined her life. According to her, the ordeal began when her
    dermatologist injected her with Botox for migraine headaches. What
    began as the medical story of one angry patient has now made salacious
    headlines, sparked heated debate and even elicited charges of
    stalking.
    The whole episode has turned into a drama of division and
    loyalty on a scale that surprises even Hollywood veterans.
    Carrie Fisher: "There are people on this side, and there are
    people on this side."
    Hollywood's big guns are blazing, dishing about a lawsuit that
    pits the beautiful wife of movie producer and former studio chief Mike
    Medavoy, the man behind dozens of films from "Rocky" to the current
    "Holes," against the billion-dollar company Allergan that manufactures
    Botox and the man who administered it to her, one of Tinseltown's most
    cherished citizens and revered doctors, Arnold Klein, known as the
    dermatologist to the stars. And some very big ones are standing up for
    him.
    Elizabeth Taylor: "Down to the very finest detail, he is the
    definitive description of perfectionist."
    There is no doubt Dr. Klein has been a big booster of Botox, an
    acknowledged early pioneer in its cosmetic and medical use, even
    demonstrating how to use it on NBC News three years ago. And there is
    also little doubt that Irena Medavoy was once one of the drug's
    biggest fans, willing to brave a needle and pay up to $1,000 a
    treatment to get her flawless look.
    Medavoy: "I don't know anybody who wasn't using it... every
    single friend. Absolutely. We all have the exact same forehead. We
    used to walk around with the same kind of forehead. No expression kind
    of thing."
    No expression because Botox, the trade name for the neurotoxin
    botulinum toxin Type A, is a potent drug produced by bacteria that can
    kill you — but properly administered temporarily paralyzes muscles,
    reducing the appearance of wrinkles and frown lines.
    Most people who've heard about Botox know of it as a medical
    fountain of youth from advertisements on television and magazines. But
    the drug is increasingly being used to treat a variety of medical
    ailments, from crossed eyes to spastic muscles, sweaty palms, back
    pain, even multiple sclerosis. The FDA has only approved Botox for
    three medical conditions and, cosmetically, for the frown line between
    the eyes. But it's routine to test new drugs for what are called off
    label uses, that is, for treatments not yet approved by the FDA.
    Several of those off label uses involving Botox seem to hold great
    promise. Among them, the use of Botox for migraines.

    It's estimated that nearly one in five women suffer from
    migraines, Irina Medavoy among them. She says she discussed her
    headaches with Dr. Klein while she was being treated with Botox
    cosmetically.
    Medavoy: "There was a discussion about headaches, migraines.
    Oh, do you get headaches? Yes, I get migraines. Oh, well you know
    what? We're using Botox for migraines. I said, really? wow, I don't,
    you know, I don't know. Oh, no side effects. It's nothing. It'll
    definitely help you, it's great."
    Maria Shriver: "Now you had a neurologist on the side that you
    were seeing, who was treating your migraines. Did you think to call
    him up and say, you know what. my dermatologist tells me Botox for
    migraines. What do you think?"
    Medavoy: "Guess what? I didn't. I trusted Klein. I've known him
    for 25 years."
    In retrospect, Irena Medavoy blames herself for not asking more
    questions. But she also blames Dr. Klein for not telling her he was a
    paid consultant to the company that makes Botox, which she maintains
    was a conflict of interest. She also claims he didn't tell her that
    using Botox for migraines was off-label. She admits, however, to
    previously signing a consent form when she first got Botox for
    wrinkles, when that use was also off-label.
    Medavoy: "Off-label? What is off-label?
    Shriver: "You didn't know what off-label was?"
    Medavoy: "No. And I signed this consent form, and you know what
    else it says in there? Don't lay down for four hours. And you might
    get an eyelid droop and a transient headache. That's what it said."
    She says the side effects for her last migraine treatment were
    much more severe, so severe they have changed her life.
    Medavoy: "One of the reasons I'm suing is that I would never
    have taken the treatment if I had known that I could have life
    altering headaches — which is by the way, what I have now, life
    altering headaches."
    She says she had no reaction to her first Botox treatments for
    wrinkles and migraines, but says that changed with her fourth
    treatment for the headaches. According to the medical file Irena
    Medavoy provided NBC News, Dr. Klein injected her on that occasion for
    the second time in the neck, at the base of the skull, but this time
    with 86 units of Botox, the largest dose he'd ever given her.
    According to several neurologists we spoke with, both the location of
    the injection and the dosage are standard for treatment of migraines.
    But Irena Medavoy says she knew right away that something was wrong.
    Medavoy: "I remember when I got up, I said, it's too much,
    Arnie. It's too much. because there were so many shots."
    Advertisement

    She says she followed instructions given by Dr. Klein's
    office: no exercise, no lying down for several hours. She says she
    felt fine, well enough the following day to take her four-year-old son
    and some of his friends to Disneyland. But within days she says, she
    began to feel unwell.
    Medavoy: "About like the third day, fourth day, still, but
    thinking, you know what, I'm thinking I'm coming down with the flu.
    Something's wrong. I'm getting a little bit of chills. Something's
    wrong. Kind of feeling off. The sixth, the seventh day, I got a
    headache that I thought I was having a stroke. I got a headache like
    I've never had in my life."
    She says the pain increased and wouldn't respond to her regular
    migraine medication. She called Dr. Klein.
    Medavoy: "I said, Arnie, something's wrong. I've got like this
    headache. He says, "oh I gave you too much. I gave you cosmetic and
    migraine at the same time. Next time, I won't give you that much.'"
    Shriver: "He said that to you, "I gave you too much?'"
    Medavoy: "‘I gave you too much.' And I said, Arnie, there's
    never going to be a next time. What can I take. Help me. What do I
    take?"
    She says Dr. Klein told her that nothing could help the pain,
    but that it would subside in a matter of days. It didn't. She called
    UCLA to speak with her neurologist, Dr. Andrew Charles, whom she had
    been seeing for the migraines that plagued her three times a month.
    But this headache was different.
    Dr. Charles: "This was a incapacitating, unremitting headache
    that was centered more around her neck and shoulders, and something
    that didn't respond to any of the medications we tried on her."
    Medavoy: "I wound up in the emergency room on the Saturday. I
    said, I can't breathe, my head, I can't breathe."

    There was a second trip to the emergency room, followed by
    endless visits to doctors. Her internist of over five years, Dr.
    Robert Huizinga, says he was perplexed by how his patient had suddenly
    become so ill.
    Dr. Huizinga: "She was really bedridden for several months. And
    we were confused initially. And obviously we wondered, gee, is it an
    infection? Because she did have flu-like symptoms and a temperature up
    to 102."
    Irena Medavoy says she spent most of the next three months in
    bed, rarely able to leave her room. She says she could barely swallow,
    that she lost 18 pounds in four weeks, suffered from extreme fatigue,
    fever and excruciating pain. Her baffled team of doctors tested for
    everything, even doing a brain screen and other tests to rule out
    auto-immune and psychiatric diseases.
    Dr. Huizinga: "At the end of the day, we felt it was due to a
    Botox reaction, both because temporarily it happened within several
    days. And number two, because it seemed to fit the pattern described
    in previous reports."
    Irena Medavoy says she finally began to function after three
    months in bed followed by another three months of being pretty much
    housebound. Even a full year later, she still complains of fatigue and
    pain.
    Medavoy: "The big difference in my life is that I went from
    never taking a daily medication, to taking five."
    Convinced that these health problems are a direct result of
    using Botox, she filed suit, not just against Dr. Klein for
    malpractice and failing to disclose his business relationship to
    Allergan, but also against Allergan for producing and marketing a drug
    she calls "an inherently dangerous product" when injected for
    off-label uses.
    As word spread of the Medavoy lawsuit, the Hollywood gossip
    machine went into overdrive, especially when it was learned that Irina
    Medavoy's husband, Mike, added the legal claim that his wife's
    Botox-induced illness had deprived him of "her companionship, intimacy
    and services..."
    Shriver: "Why did you have him go in on this lawsuit with you?
    why not just say, this happened to me. This is my lawsuit and I'm
    going it alone?"
    Medavoy: "Mike sued to give me support and say, ‘you know what,
    they're gonna take hit. Let's take the hit together.'"
    Mike Medavoy has since dropped out of the lawsuit, but stands
    firmly behind his wife's claims that Botox harmed her. And Irena
    Medavoy's attorney, Arthur Leeds, says his client's case against the
    drug company is solid.
    Leeds: "This is not a situation where everyone who takes Botox
    is going to be injured. Maybe a lot of people are going to be helped.
    But what they're trying to keep the public from knowing is that there
    are a lot of people what are not going to be helped and are gonna be
    hurt."

    Leeds says Irena Medavoy's case is bolstered by the numerous
    letters and calls he's received since the case went public from other
    people who say they've also had adverse reactions to the off label use
    of Botox and some of their stories sound eerily similar to Irena
    Medavoy's."
    Last year, a 38-year-old woman who doesn't want her name used,
    went to the dermatologist, who told her Botox could erase laugh lines
    around the eyes. Within seven to 10 days she says she started getting
    headaches, intense fatigue and flu-like symptoms. She didn't call
    Allergan, but did call her doctor, who diagnosed her with palsy. By
    day 10, the left side of her face became paralyzed. Woman: "I'd look
    in the mirror and I didn't even see myself. I mean, it's just been
    like the last few months where you look in the mirror and you start
    seeing the person that you saw all those years."
    In another case, 40-year-old nurse Debbie Sulzle says she
    spiked a fever, suffered intense headaches and had the lower part of
    her face paralyzed after getting Botox for the lines between her nose
    and mouth. Frightened, she reported her reaction to Allergan. The drug
    company does not deny that Sulzle may have had a reaction, but says
    not all of her symptoms can be attributed to Botox, particularly the
    ones she claims she still suffers from three years after her
    treatment.
    Sulzle: "I still drool a little bit off and on if I'm real
    tired or something. It's just very weak in that area still. The
    muscles are just not strong like they used to be."
    It's difficult to know how many people have had adverse
    reactions to Botox, and whether they were caused by the drug or how it
    was administered. The FDA says it's received more than a thousand
    reports on Botox since the drug was approved in 1989, but says that
    number is small given the estimated two and a half million people
    who've used the drug. Some of the reported reactions have been mild,
    but some of them have been serious and associated with
    hospitalization, disability, even death.
    Irena Medavoy says it is the stories of others who've had
    similar problems with Botox that inspire her to continue with a
    lawsuit she admits has tested her mettle. And she knows the big hurdle
    ahead will be to prove that her medical problems have nothing to do
    with her personality and life — and everything to do with Botox.
    Shriver: "So when people say, ‘Irina Medavoy, crisis queen,
    dramatic, she's got a lot of other stuff going on not Botox related,
    she will, she's doing this for the money and the attention?'"
    Medavoy: "It's about they harmed me with Botox. I was injured
    by it. It's the only way is it to hit them in the pocketbook so they
    understand that they have to disclose the full risk."
    Shriver: "What do you think did happen to Mrs. Medavoy?"
    Howard Weitzman (Klein attorney): "Could have been a nervous
    breakdown, could have been chronic depression, could have been a
    number of things.
    According to Dr. Klein's attorney, there is another side to the
    story Irena Medavoy is telling.

    THE OTHER SIDE
    Irena Medavoy may complain of intense fatigue and excruciating
    headaches a year after getting her fateful Botox injection, but
    according to the manufacturer of the drug and the lawyer working for
    the doctor who administered it, she will have a difficult time
    convincing a jury that Botox is at fault.
    Weitzman: "I don't dispute for a moment she was ill at some
    point, and maybe very ill. I just don't think the evidence will show
    that Botox was the cause."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Weitzman is an attorney accustomed to trying high profile cases
    that play themselves out in the press, having represented both John
    DeLorean and briefly, O.J. Simpson.
    Weitzman: "Some jury will decide if Dr. Klein committed
    malpractice. I don't think any evidence will surface that he did."
    Dr. Klein declined to be interviewed by Dateline, but through
    his lawyer, disputes Irena Medavoy's story. The first point he
    contests is that she wasn't told that Botox for migraines was an
    off-label use of the drug. Weitzman says Dr. Klein told her it was,
    and that she understood what that meant.
    Weitzman: "I think Mrs. Medavoy is a smart lady. I think she
    understood what off-label is."
    Weitzman also denies that Dr. Klein ever told Irena Medavoy
    that he gave her too much Botox. And he dismisses her charge that
    there was any ethical problem with Dr. Klein working as a paid
    consultant for Allergan.
    Shriver: "Is it the ethical thing to do for Dr. Klein to have
    divulged his relationship with Allergan to Mrs. Medavoy before he
    injected her with Botox?"
    Weitzman: "I absolutely think it has nothing to do with that. I
    think being a consultant to a pharmaceutical companies is done by
    doctors all over the world. That's the way pharmaceutical companies
    learn how their product reacts in clinical situations."
    Weitzman does admit, however, that the case has taken on a life
    of its own.
    Weitzman: "I don't think it can get much uglier, honestly."
    For Mrs. Medavoy the low-point since filing her lawsuit, she
    says, was finding out she was being followed by private investigators.
    She filed a stalking report, and "Dateline" was with her when officers
    stopped a private investigator, one of three we saw shadowing her.
    That's just business as usual, according to the drug manufacturer's
    general counsel, Douglas Ingram.
    Ingram: "We have absolutely observed Mrs. Medavoy in public
    places, which is very common in cases like this."
    Shriver: "So you hired private investigators to observe her, to
    follow her?"
    Ingram: "To simply observe her in public places. Remember Mrs.
    Medavoy has asserted not only in the lawsuit but in the media the
    claim that this chronic condition has impacted her social life. We
    obviously have to go to trial at some point in this case."
    Shriver: "Her claim is that this changed her life. She is an
    altered person from her experience from Botox."
    Ingram: "If Mrs. Medavoy is suffering from any of these
    ailments, I certainly feel sorry for her and I hope that she gets
    relief and she finds out the cause of them. But never, to my knowledge
    in the history of Botox has a constellation of side effects occurred
    as Mrs. Medavoy is contending and persisted for a year."
    The intensity and duration of Irena Medavoy's reaction does
    surprise many doctors we spoke with, including the Chief of Neurology
    at Kaiser Permanente in San Diego, Dr. Andrew Blumenfeld, who runs the
    headache clinic. He says he has used Botox for 14 years, treating
    migraines with it for the past five. He frequently injects in the neck
    area and often in doses much larger than what Dr. Klein gave Irena
    Medavoy — and, he says, with great success.
    Dr. Blumenfeld: "I've used it in relatively large doses and I
    have not run into any significant side effects. most of the side
    effects that I've seen have been mild or transient."
    Shriver: "Such as?"
    Dr. Blumenfeld: "It depends on the site that I'm injecting."
    Dr. Blumenfeld says stiff necks, an increase in headaches and
    droopy eyelids are the consequences he most commonly sees. And those,
    he adds, can be minimized with medical expertise.
    Dr. Blumenfeld: "The sites that we inject are very specific and
    the technique is very important."
    But Dr. Blumenfeld admits that while he hasn't seen a condition
    as severe as Irena Medavoy's, incorrectly used, Botox could cause
    problems.
    Dr. Blumenfeld: "It's true that if you inject in large doses
    and possibly incorrectly, that you would produce muscle weakness. It's
    not into the artery, it's deep into the muscle where you're going to
    maybe give too much of the medication, and you could aggravate the
    headaches when you do that."

    Allergan's general counsel insists Botox is safe. He says it's
    been administered over seven million times and points out that in the
    development of all new drugs from aspirin to penicillin, some patients
    have had bad reactions. He acknowledges that in rare instances, the
    side effects of Botox, especially with it's medical use, can be
    severe."
    The FDA has cited the drug company in the past for promotional
    literature that was "misleading" and "minimizing of side effects."
    Allergan says its materials have been updated, including the product
    inserts it is required to send to doctors.
    Shriver: "It says there are reports of adverse reactions with
    cosmetic use that include headaches, respiratory infection, flu
    syndrome, nausea and with Botox general use, even rare spontaneous
    reports of death sometimes associated with dysphasia, pneumonia and/or
    other significant disability."
    Ingram: "I don't dispute that's in the label. There were
    reports of not common, but rare reports of the various side effects
    you mentioned — pain at the injection site, headache and the like. it
    should also be noted, however, that every one of those particular side
    effects, were also noted in the placebo group."
    In other words, according to Ingram, patients not injected with
    Botox exhibited the same symptoms as those who were. And as for whose
    responsibility it is to inform patients about the side effects listed
    on those labels, he says that's in the hands of doctors.
    Ingram: "Its really the physician's professional judgment and
    responsibility that guides the physician in determining what kind of
    conversations ought to occur between a physician and his or her
    patient."
    It's a conversation attorney Weitzman says did take place,
    despite Irena Medavoy's claim that it did not.
    Weitzman: "I think he met the standard of care necessary and
    required by the medical profession. I think that's what the evidence
    will show.
    Until this lawsuit received notoriety, the only attention Dr.
    Klein was accustomed to getting was praise for his considerable
    medical and philanthropic accomplishments. But his high profile
    friends and patients like Carrie Fisher and Elizabeth Taylor recognize
    that today he is caught in the middle of a lawsuit that threatens a
    lot more than just his medical practice
    Shriver: "What's this case done to him? What effect has it
    had?"
    Carrie Fisher: "Well, it challenges his integrity. I mean, he's
    this beloved man, and it challenges his word and his integrity and
    stuff like that."
    Shriver: "You obviously feel that it's important to support
    this man, not just because he's your friend."
    Elizabeth Taylor: "No. It's because I believe in him with all
    my heart. I believe in his integrity more than any other human being
    alive. He cannot, and does not, do or make a wrong move."
    Shriver: "Isn't it possible that he made a mistake?"
    Taylor: "No."
    Shriver: "No?"
    Taylor: "Arnie does not make mistakes."
    The stakes are high not just for Dr. Klein, but also for
    Allergan. Publicity could hurt the image of a drug estimated to earn
    the company $580 million this year alone.
    Ingram: "Dr. Klein and Allergan are both defendants in this
    lawsuit and we're going to work together to ensure that this frivolous
    lawsuit is resolved... and our product and Dr. Klein are vindicated.
    And as for Irena Medavoy, she says it has become her mission to
    warn other people who are considering the use of Botox to research the
    possible consequences first.
    Shriver: "You're not saying, don't touch Botox."
    Medavoy: "It's everyone's life. They have to choose for
    themselves. Is it worth the rewards they're going to get? But just be
    informed."
    Both sides have a court appearance next week, though no trial
    date has yet been set. The FDA review of Botox incidents should be
    completed in the next few months.

  3. (Ilena) said:

    Battle over Botox

    Lawsuit alleges malpractice from Hollywood doctor

    I assume that Ilena is posting this because she thinks that it somehow
    proves that all doctors are evil, and this an even better story
    because it somehow links to the hated plastic surgery. (I know, I
    know, it is impossible to know what (or even if) Ilena thinks, and I
    will be accused of trying to speak for her.)

    I went to a dinner last Saturday night where the speaker was a plastic
    surgeon. He was asked about botox and responded with all the things
    that are wrong with it, how it works, why it causes problems for
    Hollywood stars, when it should be used, and much more. He is a member
    of Evil Organised Medicine, and yet there he was, telling people not
    to get botox injections. I can only guess at what he would think about
    a dermatologist pretending to be a plastic surgeon and charging
    $US1000 a time to paralyse facial muscles.

    He was addressing a dinner held by the Australian Skeptics, and his
    topic was - wait for it, Jan - wait for it, Ilena - quackery and
    malpractice in the plastic surgery business. Real doctors, doing real
    bad things. Imagine that, if you can.

    --
    Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight

  4. Peter Bowditch said:

    I went to a dinner last Saturday night where the speaker was a plastic
    surgeon. He was asked about botox and responded with all the things
    that are wrong with it, how it works, why it causes problems for
    Hollywood stars, when it should be used, and much more. He is a member
    of Evil Organised Medicine, and yet there he was, telling people not
    to get botox injections. I can only guess at what he would think about
    a dermatologist pretending to be a plastic surgeon and charging
    $US1000 a time to paralyse facial muscles.

    He was addressing a dinner held by the Australian Skeptics, and his
    topic was - wait for it, Jan - wait for it, Ilena - quackery and
    malpractice in the plastic surgery business. Real doctors, doing real
    bad things. Imagine that, if you can.

    Peter, you may know that my younger son has cerebral palsy. In 1995-6 we
    investigated several treatment modalities for his severe spasticity. One
    of them was Botox, and we saw at least three pediatric
    neurologists/neurosurgeons (out of six) who were highly in favor of this
    treatment.

    Recently, at a support group we are involved with, we met one of the
    periatric neurologists, the one who turned us off the most when we met
    him back then, as he was a strident supporter of only Botox. He was the
    featured speaker.

    His tune had changed. He did not support the use of Botox for spasticity
    treatment any longer and said that he had virtually eliminated its use
    from his practice.

    I was surprised, as the treatment is a good money maker for pediatric
    neurologists, who often get beat up by the insurance companies.

  5. Peter Bowditch <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    (Ilena) said:

    Battle over Botox

    Lawsuit alleges malpractice from Hollywood doctor

    I assume that Ilena is posting this because she thinks that it somehow
    proves that all doctors are evil

    And you'd be wrong yet again ...

    That conclusion is the result of your Quack Logic ...

  6. Peter Bowditch <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    He was addressing a dinner held by the Australian Skeptics, and his
    topic was - wait for it, Jan - wait for it, Ilena - quackery and
    malpractice in the plastic surgery business.

    After 40 years of the failed silicone experiment ... it's about time.

    For millions, it's too late.

    Especially now with hundreds of thousands of women already made sick
    from their implants while the PS's prospered ... and with Quacks like
    Barrett attempting to hinder research.

    Your unnamed doctor should definitely go after these Quacks who are
    trying to stop those doctors and scientists who are attempting to help
    the women already sickened by these faulty products ...

    The chemical Industry paid ACSH who paid Quack Barrett to write this
    chemical industry propaganda as a so called "advisor." Again, he has
    no expertise, just an overly funded budget.

    From my declaration defending myself against Barrett's assaults:

    http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/quack-suppdeclaration.html

    I believe that a review of Barrett's and Polevoy's websites also
    illustrates that they publish their opinions and conclusions on
    medical issues as "facts" concerning on-going medical controversies
    such as Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), an illness that
    devastates the health of a high number of women with breast implants.
    As explained in my original declaration, ¶16, Barrett prematurely and,
    in my opinion, inaccurately, concludes "‘Multiple chemical
    sensitivity' is not a legitimate diagnosis." (Rosenthal Decl., Exhibit
    J, p. 6.)

    I was shocked that Barrett wrote of the clinical ecologists who
    believe in MCS, "most of them should have their licenses revoked."
    (See Ex. I to my original declaration.)

    I believe that if Barrett's position becomes accepted by the
    mainstream medical community, it would not only hinder women who are
    impacted by the effects of this debilitating illness from getting the
    help they need, it would also aid in the defense of the silicone
    manufacturers in the billion dollar lawsuits against them that
    continue today.

    Plaintiffs claim that my statements about them are not related to
    breast implant issues. (Opposition, 2:2-6). Barrett, in ¶15 of his
    declaration, also declares, "I do not have a ‘highly publicized
    viewpoint on the subject of breast implants'" and then states, "Nor
    have I been involved in any public controversy about them." However,
    page 21 of the 24-page report on "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity"
    (MCS), edited by Barrett, and widely disseminated by the American
    Council on Science and Health (ACSH), states "If the medical community
    accepts the diagnosis and theory of MCS, a wide range of industries
    could be seriously affected," and then lists the "silicone breast
    implant" makers as number 6 of the industries seriously affected. (See
    Exhibit A hereto for a true copy of excerpts of said report - opens
    PDF file.)

  7. (Ilena) said:

    Peter Bowditch <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    He was addressing a dinner held by the Australian Skeptics, and his
    topic was - wait for it, Jan - wait for it, Ilena - quackery and
    malpractice in the plastic surgery business.

    After 40 years of the failed silicone experiment ... it's about time.

    Not that we were talking about silicone ...

    Quoted message said:

    For millions, it's too late.

    Especially now with hundreds of thousands of women already made sick
    from their implants while the PS's prospered ... and with Quacks like
    Barrett attempting to hinder research.

    Not that we were talking about Dr Barrett. Do you have evidence that
    Dr Barrett hindered research that could have saved lives. Remember,
    the court precedent allowing defamation only applies when you quote
    someone else.

    Quoted message said:

    Your unnamed doctor should definitely go after these Quacks who are
    trying to stop those doctors and scientists who are attempting to help
    the women already sickened by these faulty products ...

    Your use of the word "unnamed" is noted. Do you really expect me to
    expose this man to the kind of slurs that would inevitably arise if I
    mentioned his name here? In any case, his name is not relevant.

    He did mention his opinion of the lawyer who led the class action on
    behalf of implant "victims" in Australia, but I cannot repeat it
    because, unlike California, repetition of defamation here is not
    protected speech. The lawyer publicly admitted that he was not the
    least bit interested in whether implants caused any damage and it was
    not his job to prove it. His job was to extract money from implant
    manufacturers and doctors and then keep as much as he could for
    himself. The total population of Australia is about 19 million people,
    but the claims made on behalf of Australian implant "victims"
    indicated that 30 million women had had implants.

    Quoted message said:

    The chemical Industry paid ACSH who paid Quack Barrett to write this
    chemical industry propaganda as a so called "advisor." Again, he has
    no expertise, just an overly funded budget.

    When are you going to produce evidence of the payments to Dr Barrett?
    Remember, you aren't passing on someone else's defamation here.

    <snip Barrett bashing>

    --
    Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight

  8. (Ilena) said:

    PRESS RELEASE: Iraq's missing botulinum toxin found ?
    Date: 30 Jan 2003

    Could the answer to Hussein's missing botulinum toxin be found in the
    statistics put out by the Plastic Surgeons?

    Excerpt from "State of the Union" Speech:

    The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials
    sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin —
    enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure.
    He has not accounted for that material. He has given no evidence that
    he has destroyed it.

    Excerpt from Plastic Surgeon's Association:
    http://surgery.org/news_releases/feb2502btx.html
    2001 Statistics from the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic
    Surgery
    BOTULINUM TOXIN (BOTOX®, MYOBLOC®) INJECTION IS TOP
    COSMETIC TREATMENT: MORE THAN 1.6 MILLION PROCEDURES
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You should have posted this to alt-conspiracy, Ilena, although the
    denizens of that group might find it too unbelievable even for them.

    --
    Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight

  9. Peter Bowditch <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    When are you going to produce evidence of the payments to Dr Barrett?

    You are claiming that Quack Barrett wrote those published pieces on
    MCS for ACSH and receiving no compensation, Ratz?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/quack-suppdeclaration.html

    I believe that a review of Barrett's and Polevoy's websites also
    illustrates that they publish their opinions and conclusions on
    medical issues as "facts" concerning on-going medical controversies
    such as Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), an illness that
    devastates the health of a high number of women with breast implants.
    As explained in my original declaration, ¶16, Barrett prematurely and,
    in my opinion, inaccurately, concludes "‘Multiple chemical
    sensitivity' is not a legitimate diagnosis." (Rosenthal Decl., Exhibit
    J, p. 6.)

    I was shocked that Barrett wrote of the clinical ecologists who
    believe in MCS, "most of them should have their licenses revoked."
    (See Ex. I to my original declaration.)

    I believe that if Barrett's position becomes accepted by the
    mainstream medical community, it would not only hinder women who are
    impacted by the effects of this debilitating illness from getting the
    help they need, it would also aid in the defense of the silicone
    manufacturers in the billion dollar lawsuits against them that
    continue today.

    Plaintiffs claim that my statements about them are not related to
    breast implant issues. (Opposition, 2:2-6). Barrett, in ¶15 of his
    declaration, also declares, "I do not have a ‘highly publicized
    viewpoint on the subject of breast implants'" and then states, "Nor
    have I been involved in any public controversy about them." However,
    page 21 of the 24-page report on "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity"
    (MCS), edited by Barrett, and widely disseminated by the American
    Council on Science and Health (ACSH), states "If the medical community
    accepts the diagnosis and theory of MCS, a wide range of industries
    could be seriously affected," and then lists the "silicone breast
    implant" makers as number 6 of the industries seriously affected. (See
    Exhibit A hereto for a true copy of excerpts of said report - opens
    PDF file.)

  10. Tsu Dho Nimh said:
    Mark Probert said:
    Peter Bowditch said:

    I went to a dinner last Saturday night where the speaker was a plastic
    surgeon. He was asked about botox and responded with all the things
    that are wrong with it, how it works, why it causes problems for
    Hollywood stars

    Becides making them incapable of showing emotion with theoir
    paralysed faces? It must drive directors nuts.

    The entire face i snot paralyzed. Selective muscles are. I have seen
    some people who have had the treatment, and they can smile, frown, etc.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    His tune had changed. He did not support the use of Botox for spasticity
    treatment any longer and said that he had virtually eliminated its use

    Quoted message said:

    from his practice.

    What was he finding to be the problem?

    The pain the kids went through, the short, and constantly diminishing,
    duration of effecitveness, and other things. He also became enamored of
    other treatment, which he fel twas far easier on the patient, and had an
    overall better result. email for details, if you are so inclined.

  11. Mark Probert <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Tsu Dho Nimh said:
    Quoted message said:

    His tune had changed. He did not support the use of Botox for
    spasticity treatment any longer and said that he had virtually
    eliminated its use

    Quoted message said:

    from his practice.

    What was he finding to be the problem?

    The pain the kids went through, the short, and constantly diminishing,
    duration of effecitveness, and other things. He also became enamored
    of other treatment, which he fel twas far easier on the patient, and
    had an overall better result. email for details, if you are so
    inclined.

    This is a classic illustration of how, in conventional medicine, a
    treatment may *sound* promising and initially *look* promising, but
    eventually turn out not to work that well in practice. And therefore the
    treatment gets abandoned. And with the abandonment comes disappointment,
    but not defensiveness or delusions of persecution. If practitioners of
    alternative medicine could adopt a similar mindset, there's a chance that
    something useful *might* come out of the field. But right now they have so
    much ego invested in their pet doctrines that they simply can't admit they
    might be wrong. Their mindset is that changing one's mind on the basis of
    new evidence is a sign of weakness, not strength.

  12. Mark Probert said:
    Tsu Dho Nimh said:

    Becides making them incapable of showing emotion with theoir
    paralysed faces? It must drive directors nuts.

    The entire face i snot paralyzed. Selective muscles are. I have seen
    some people who have had the treatment, and they can smile, frown, etc.

    I've seen some that looked overdone ... the crowsfoot treatment
    made the entire eye area immobile. A smile didn't extend past
    the artificial collagen pout of the lips.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    His tune had changed. He did not support the use of Botox for spasticity
    treatment any longer and said that he had virtually eliminated its use

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What was he finding to be the problem?

    The pain the kids went through, the short, and constantly diminishing,
    duration of effecitveness

    Diminishing duration ... bummer.

    Tsu

    --
    To doubt everything or to believe everything
    are two equally convenient solutions; both
    dispense with the necessity of reflection.
    - Jules Henri Poincaré

  13. Eric Bohlman said:

    Mark Probert <[email hidden]> wrote in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The pain the kids went through, the short, and constantly diminishing,
    duration of effecitveness, and other things. He also became enamored
    of other treatment, which he fel twas far easier on the patient, and
    had an overall better result. email for details, if you are so
    inclined.

    Quoted message said:

    This is a classic illustration of how, in conventional medicine, a
    treatment may *sound* promising and initially *look* promising, but
    eventually turn out not to work that well in practice. And therefore the
    treatment gets abandoned.

    Or used for a small sub-group that it works well for.

    Tsu

    --
    To doubt everything or to believe everything
    are two equally convenient solutions; both
    dispense with the necessity of reflection.
    - Jules Henri Poincaré

  14. Quoted message said:

    Mark Probert <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Tsu Dho Nimh said:

    >His tune had changed. He did not support the use of Botox for
    >spasticity treatment any longer and said that he had virtually
    >eliminated its use

    >from his practice.

    What was he finding to be the problem?

    The pain the kids went through, the short, and constantly diminishing,
    duration of effecitveness, and other things. He also became enamored
    of other treatment, which he fel twas far easier on the patient, and
    had an overall better result. email for details, if you are so
    inclined.

    This is a classic illustration of how, in conventional medicine, a
    treatment may *sound* promising and initially *look* promising, but
    eventually turn out not to work that well in practice. And therefore the
    treatment gets abandoned. And with the abandonment comes disappointment,
    but not defensiveness or delusions of persecution. If practitioners of
    alternative medicine could adopt a similar mindset, there's a chance that
    something useful *might* come out of the field. But right now they have so
    much ego invested in their pet doctrines that they simply can't admit they
    might be wrong. Their mindset is that changing one's mind on the basis of
    new evidence is a sign of weakness, not strength.

    It appears that much of alt-med is about ego, covering one's buns, denial, and
    the good 'ole boy & girl network. Sad, that.

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