Look 461 or Specialized Tarmac Comp/Pro

Yuri Budilov said:

Hello

I hope this is correct place for this post.....

Are there any owners of 2004/2005 Look 461 or 2004/2005 Specialized carbon
Tarmac Comp or Pro out there?

Can you share any thoughts on these two road cycles?

nothing wrong with a 461 until you crash: $$$$$! Look don't do repairs
and there isn't a crash replacement programme.
--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

m-gineering said:

Yuri Budilov said:

Hello

I hope this is correct place for this post.....

Are there any owners of 2004/2005 Look 461 or 2004/2005 Specialized carbon
Tarmac Comp or Pro out there?

Can you share any thoughts on these two road cycles?

nothing wrong with a 461 until you crash: $$$$$! Look don't do repairs
and there isn't a crash replacement programme.
--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Specialized don't do repairs either. Choose the one that fits, from the
shop that has the best support. Otherwise, questions on 'how does it
ride' are subjective at best.

BUT most 'pro' shops are likely to sell Look, whereas most 'man's
warehouse' type shops sell Specialized, Trek, Giant, type. Nothing
wrong with that but a proper fit/great service might be hard to find at
the high volume type shops.

Yuri Budilov said:

Hello

I hope this is correct place for this post.....

Are there any owners of 2004/2005 Look 461 or 2004/2005 Specialized
carbon Tarmac Comp or Pro out there?

Can you share any thoughts on these two road cycles?

Am I paying for the name/badge if I choose Look 461 over Tarmac Pro?
How do I compare these two carbon frames in quality, ride, stiffness,
comfort, etc?

I can't offer comparisons, but notes on the KG461, which I have been riding
a season and a half. It is VERY stable and steerable in all environments
and speeds. It is pretty demanding : if you have to relance, then you have
to do it then, not later, or you will find it stiffer than you. Especially
when taking long hills over 7-8%. Get wheels that don't give too much, or
you'll find out how close your brake pads are, and quickly. Comfort is
super, but you may well find people who think that the frame does nothing to
augment comfort.

One good thing about the sizing - you really can fit lots of people on this
frame, as the size to size difference is (memory&😉 by 2 cm.

--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yuri Budilov said:

Hello

I hope this is correct place for this post.....

Are there any owners of 2004/2005 Look 461 or 2004/2005 Specialized
carbon Tarmac Comp or Pro out there?

Can you share any thoughts on these two road cycles?

Am I paying for the name/badge if I choose Look 461 over Tarmac Pro?
How do I compare these two carbon frames in quality, ride, stiffness,
comfort, etc?

I can't offer comparisons, but notes on the KG461, which I have been
riding a season and a half. It is VERY stable and steerable in all
environments and speeds. It is pretty demanding : if you have to relance,
then you have to do it then, not later, or you will find it stiffer than
you. Especially when taking long hills over 7-8%. Get wheels that don't
give too much, or you'll find out how close your brake pads are, and
quickly. Comfort is super, but you may well find people who think that
the frame does nothing to augment comfort.

One good thing about the sizing - you really can fit lots of people on
this frame, as the size to size difference is (memory&😉 by 2 cm.

--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.

many thanks for your comments (everyone).

re wheels: Mavic Equipe or Elite ok? Any comments on seat post to choose? Do
I really need a carbon seat post for this frame to get a comfy ride or save
money and get alloy one?

Yes, sizes go by 2cm. I got measured and was recommended a size-53cm frame
in Look 461/555 (effective top tube length =54cm). It is meant to be
slightly sloping top tube as I understand it.

Should I spend extra $500 and go for 555 frame?

Yuri Budilov said:

Are there any owners of 2004/2005 Look 461

read my other posting about irritating sounds coming from the headset/fork
...

Greetings, Derk

Yuri Budilov said:

Do I really need a carbon seat post for this frame to get a
comfy ride or save money and get alloy one?

Here, LOOK recommends _against_ carbon posts for the 461, as the plug will
not hold them against slippage. Collar clamps do well, but that's not what
the 461 has.

Quoted message said:

Should I spend extra $500 and go for 555 frame?

Top Vélo and Le Cycle are luke-warm about the 555. Too rigid to allow
average riders an easy time making a jump back to speed, on hills,
especially. Being average and having a 461 are not sins, remember.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.

Derk said:

Yuri Budilov said:

Are there any owners of 2004/2005 Look 461

read my other posting about irritating sounds coming from the
headset/fork ..

Greetings, Derk

Not everyone buys the wrong fork, Derk !
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.

Sandy said:

Not everyone buys the wrong fork, Derk !

Yeah, right: my LBS phoned the importer while I was present to ask if they
could mount the HSC 4 SL and they said it was no problem. How the ****
should I know about which fork goes into which frame? If the importer
doesn't know it and my LBS say it's OK, why would I have that knowledge? I
pay them for their expertise. There should be info on the LOOK website
about what is compatible and what isn't.

But I took a drastic measure: I got so sick of this whole problem that I
traded in my 461 for a hi-end frame: a Colnago C40 HP B-stay.

Greets, Derk

Sandy said:

Here, LOOK recommends _against_ carbon posts for the 461, as the plug will
not hold them against slippage. Collar clamps do well, but that's not
what the 461 has.

As a matter of fact that isn't the case: on the LOOK forum, it is even
recommended by the moderator to use a carbon seatpost with this clamp of
the 461, in spite of all the evidence against it. I warned for it several
times on the LOOK forum.

The plug will crush the seatpost according to TOUR magazine, because it
applies pressure on one point, which carbon can't handle. TOUR received
their test 461 with a crushed carbon seatpost. the picture can be found in
the magazine.

Greets, Derk

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

Here, LOOK recommends _against_ carbon posts for the 461, as the plug
will
not hold them against slippage. Collar clamps do well, but that's not
what the 461 has.

As a matter of fact that isn't the case: on the LOOK forum, it is even
recommended by the moderator to use a carbon seatpost with this clamp of
the 461, in spite of all the evidence against it. I warned for it several
times on the LOOK forum.

The plug will crush the seatpost according to TOUR magazine, because it
applies pressure on one point, which carbon can't handle. TOUR received
their test 461 with a crushed carbon seatpost. the picture can be found in
the magazine.

thank you Derk and Sandy. So consensus is to stick with alloy seatpost for
461. Good to know. I presume alloy seat post will not affect the ride
quality too much as opposed to cushy carbon seat post ride?

many thanks again folks!

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sandy said:

Not everyone buys the wrong fork, Derk !

Yeah, right: my LBS phoned the importer while I was present to ask if they
could mount the HSC 4 SL and they said it was no problem. How the ****
should I know about which fork goes into which frame? If the importer
doesn't know it and my LBS say it's OK, why would I have that knowledge? I
pay them for their expertise. There should be info on the LOOK website
about what is compatible and what isn't.

But I took a drastic measure: I got so sick of this whole problem that I
traded in my 461 for a hi-end frame: a Colnago C40 HP B-stay.

Greets, Derk

is this not a standard fork for 461 - being HSC 4 SL? no? which is the fork
to buy for 461?

Yuri Budilov said:

I presume alloy seat post will not
affect the ride quality too much as opposed to cushy carbon seat post
ride?

Blindfolded, you'd never notice the difference. (Don't ride far like that,
though.)

Bill S.

Yuri Budilov said:

I presume alloy seat post will not affect the ride
quality too much as opposed to cushy carbon seat post ride?

I don't think so.

What you should also consider these things:
1)I didn't like the fact that LOOK only offers 1 chainstay length for ALL
bikes. The result is that the rear wheel is very close to the seat tube,
even if you have a large frame. I had a wheel that was out of true and it
hit the seat tube. It's also not handy when you ride in the mud.
2)Frame geometry is odd: I need a 58cm top tube with a 13 cm stem, which
means I need a 59 cm LOOK frame.But because it's too high for me then, my
upper leg keeps hitting the top tube.
3) I find the bottom bracket too flxible. I hear the chain scrathing th
efront der. when I use the big chainwheel and the 3 smallest cogs. The f.d.
couldn't be set to the right , since the chain would drop then, so I had to
learn to live with it.
4) Paint is very easily damaged.

Hope this helps you.

I liked the ride quality, though.

Greets, Derk

Yuri Budilov said:

is this not a standard fork for 461 - being HSC 4 SL? no? which is the
fork to buy for 461?

The form to get is the HSC 4 (heavier. It comes standard with the 461.

Greetings, Derk

thank you both for your replies!

btw I am looking at size 53cm Look 461 or 555 (with 54cm top tube effective
length)....

or a Trek Madone 5.2 54cm (on special this week, I just found out) for same
price as a built up Look 461. Decisions, decisions.....

Yuri Budilov said:

or a Trek Madone 5.2 54cm (on special this week, I just found out) for
same price as a built up Look 461. Decisions, decisions.....

I would go for the TREK myself: 10 year guarantee on the frame if I'm not
mistaken and no integrated headset, which is superior to the I.H.

Greets, Derk

I said about the TREK:

Quoted message said:

no integrated headset, which is superior to the I.H

That should be: I think it has no integrated headset, but I'm not 100%
certain about it, so you should check that.

I myself have no good feelings about the longevity of I.H.

Greets, Derk

m-gineering said:

nothing wrong with a 461 until you crash: $$$$$! Look don't do repairs
and there isn't a crash replacement programme.

I know someone who repaired his LOOK frame after the chainstay came loose:
he repaired it himself with rivets and "special?" glue he got from his
brother who worked for the army. He repaired it 10 years ago and is still
cycling on it.

Which companies offer such a program? Colnago?

Greetings, Derk

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yuri Budilov said:

or a Trek Madone 5.2 54cm (on special this week, I just found out) for
same price as a built up Look 461. Decisions, decisions.....

I would go for the TREK myself: 10 year guarantee on the frame if I'm not
mistaken and no integrated headset, which is superior to the I.H.

Greets, Derk

thanks! Trek warranty is longer that Look (5 years versus limited lifetime).

I do not know how it would compare - ride wise. I presume Madone 5.2 is the
same frame as used by Lance to win 2001 Tour, no?