Chain skipping

Paul said:

I've just had a new chain (Shimano) fitted as part of a service on my bike and it's currently
skipping badly on the sprockets.

I've done 3000miles on the bike and had a change of chain at 1500miles and now a second at 3000.
Both times chain wear was acceptable (this last change was prompted by a chainchecker reading of
just under 75%) so I would hope that the cassette doesn't need replacing yet.

The first time I had the chain changed there was some skipping (though not as bad as this time)
which settled quite quickly and I did notice that this time the skipping did improve over the
short 3 mile ride from the LBS. Is the problem just a case of riding it out?

I also noticed that the new chain is very oily/greasy, including the outer surfaces of the
rollers, presumably is was coated in something after manufacture. Would running the chain through
a chain bath and degreasing it and re-lubing help?

Thanks for any thoughts, Paul

Replace the cog. They're worn. You may also need to replace the chainrings. You were lucky last
time. Clean and lube the chain frquently and this won't happen. You'll get more miles to a chain and
your gears will last several chains.

When the initial coat of grease on the chain gets dirty, clean and relube it.

David

David Kunz said:

Paul said:

I've just had a new chain (Shimano) fitted as part of a service on my bike and it's currently
skipping badly on the sprockets.

I've done 3000miles on the bike and had a change of chain at 1500miles and now a second at 3000.
Both times chain wear was acceptable (this last change was prompted by a chainchecker reading of
just under 75%) so I would hope that the cassette doesn't need replacing yet.

The first time I had the chain changed there was some skipping (though not as bad as this time)
which settled quite quickly and I did notice that this time the skipping did improve over the
short 3 mile ride from the LBS. Is the problem just a case of riding it out?

I also noticed that the new chain is very oily/greasy, including the outer surfaces of the
rollers, presumably is was coated in something after manufacture. Would running the chain through
a chain bath and degreasing it and re-lubing help?

Thanks for any thoughts, Paul

Replace the cog. They're worn. You may also need to replace the chainrings. You were lucky last
time. Clean and lube the chain frquently and this won't happen. You'll get more miles to a chain
and your gears will last several chains.

When the initial coat of grease on the chain gets dirty, clean and relube it.

David

I know it's hard to put your finger on it but for roasonably normal on-road cycling, approximately
how often should one be looking at cleaning/replacing the chain?

<cut>

If everything is new or new-ish then it could be derailleur adjustment or hanger alignment. Is it
climbing up a cog or down a cog? 75% wear is quite a bit. I would degrease the chain as much aas
possible. Then I would check for chain wear.

NS

I get about 20k miles on a chain but it's really stretched by then. Never lubricate unless it
squeaks or you just got back from a wet ride, in which case float the water off with WD40 so it
won't rust.

At 20k, replace cogs and chain and probably chainwheels (see if the new chain works on the old
chainwheels first).

A stretched chain costs energy, which you will notice for a day and then not notice any longer, when
you put on a new chain. So probably it's not a real concern.

If you have a high quality chain it may begin skipping after a thousand miles or so, because it
wears slower than the cogs. The chain needs to wear at the same rate or faster than the cogs.

The sign my chain needs replacement is that it pops off the chainwheels on startups. Partly it's
that the chainwheels are worn but also so is the chain, and it's riding pretty high on the teeth.

I use cheap enough chains so that it never skips on the cogs. I always replace the cogs when I
replace the chain.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

asqui said:

David Kunz said:

Paul said:

I've just had a new chain (Shimano) fitted as part of a service on my bike and it's currently
skipping badly on the sprockets.

I've done 3000miles on the bike and had a change of chain at 1500miles and now a second at 3000.
Both times chain wear was acceptable (this last change was prompted by a chainchecker reading of
just under 75%) so I would hope that the cassette doesn't need replacing yet.

The first time I had the chain changed there was some skipping (though not as bad as this time)
which settled quite quickly and I did notice that this time the skipping did improve over the
short 3 mile ride from the LBS. Is the problem just a case of riding it out?

I also noticed that the new chain is very oily/greasy, including the outer surfaces of the
rollers, presumably is was coated in something after manufacture. Would running the chain through
a chain bath and degreasing it and re-lubing help?

Thanks for any thoughts, Paul

Replace the cog. They're worn. You may also need to replace the chainrings. You were lucky last
time. Clean and lube the chain frquently and this won't happen. You'll get more miles to a chain
and your gears will last several chains.

When the initial coat of grease on the chain gets dirty, clean and relube it.

David

I know it's hard to put your finger on it but for roasonably normal on-road cycling, approximately
how often should one be looking at cleaning/replacing the chain?

I ride a combination of road and trails, so this may not apply... I clean my chain every 200-400
miles; earlier if it's making gritty noises -- dry noises will get another light coat of lube 🙂. I
usually need to replace my chain about every 3k miles and I usually get 3 chains to a cassette,
small and middle chainring (yea, I don't use the big ring much 🙂).

David

"Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that the cassette doesn't need replacing yet.

Roloff (?spelling) makes a cog-checking tool. I don't know of anyone using it - maybe shops
prefer to sell new cassettes ? :-)

Quoted message said:

The first time I had the chain changed there was some skipping

Has anybody mentioned stiff link(s) as a possibility ?

As I recall, Shimano doesn't have the PowerLink (tm) or equivalent, so you press in the pin and
then loosen the plates (?) with the chain tool, or by bending the chain a certain way. A stiff
link might work itself loose in a few km. I can't imagined a new chain wearing enough in a few km
to suddenly stop skipping on a worn cassette.

www.sheldonbrown.com or the rec.bicycles faq or even Shimano should have something about this.

?

Quoted message said:

I also noticed that the new chain is very oily/greasy,

SRAM chains are coated with a heavy lubricant which they
claim is very effective. Don't know SHimano. Some of the chain
lubes, such as ProLink, advise application onto bare metal.

I usually ride a few hundred km on the original lube, then clean the chain thoroughly and swotch
to ProLink. I also found Boeshield worked well, but I can't find it locally and it needed to set
up overnight. YMMV.

Quoted message said:

including the outer surfaces of the rollers,

Lots in the above resources about cleaning and lubing chains. Lube on the outside may deter rust,
but doesn't help the pins and rollers. I usually wipe of the surplus. It's the inner bearing
surfaces which must be clean and lubricated.

hth

"Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've just had a new chain (Shimano) fitted as part of a service on my bike and it's currently
skipping badly on the sprockets.

An additional thought. I had a lot of problems which were actually caused by rusty / sticking
pulleys. Now I lube them when I do the chain.

Wish I'd realized that before I fiddled around with chain length and the b-tension screw :-(

"asqui" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know it's hard to put your finger on it but for roasonably normal on-road cycling, approximately
how often should one be looking at cleaning/replacing the chain?

Water affects some chain lubes more than others. I usually relube after riding in heavy rain or
through deep(er than expected) puddles.

I use an on-bike (scrubber) cleaner when the chain seems to need it. Change the solvent 3-4 times
until it stays clear.

ProLink (search GOOGLE GROUPS for other recommendations) seems to work quite well.

I'm trying to rotate chains, i.e. use A 2000 km, install new
chain B, use 2000 km, install new chain C, use for 2000 km, install
new chain D, use for 2000 km, install used chain A, use for ... etc.

Intuitively, this will avoid putting a brand-new chain onto a badly worn cassette.

I find that a new chain does seem to shift better, perhaps there's less side-to-side felxibility,
or the original lube is more effective. I dunno.

hth.

David Kunz said:

I ride a combination of road and trails, so this may not apply... I clean my chain every 200-400
miles; earlier if it's making gritty noises -- dry noises will get another light coat of lube 🙂.
I usually need to replace my chain about every 3k miles and I usually get 3 chains to a cassette,
small and middle chainring (yea, I don't use the big ring much 🙂).

David

What do you mean by "gritty noises" and "dry noises"?

The LBS recommended an aeresol PTFE lube for dry chain lubrication, which I bought. Is it okay to
use this lube alone after a thorough degreasing of the chain, or do I need something like White
Lightning for proper internal lubrication of a squeaky-clean chain?

TIA, Dani.

asqui said:

David Kunz said:

I ride a combination of road and trails, so this may not apply... I clean my chain every 200-400
miles; earlier if it's making gritty noises -- dry noises will get another light coat of lube 🙂.
I usually need to replace my chain about every 3k miles and I usually get 3 chains to a cassette,
small and middle chainring (yea, I don't use the big ring much 🙂).

David

What do you mean by "gritty noises" and "dry noises"?

The LBS recommended an aeresol PTFE lube for dry chain lubrication, which I bought. Is it okay to
use this lube alone after a thorough degreasing of the chain, or do I need something like White
Lightning for proper internal lubrication of a squeaky-clean chain?

TIA, Dani.

Gritty sounds like sandpaper on the gears. Dry sounds, well, like the chain needs some lube 🙂.

Actually, white lightning's not a great lube -- it just keeps the chain clean in dusty, dry
conditions where anything wetter'd fail quickly. It also instantly flakes off if it even sees
water. I believe that it's popular more because it's low maintenance and clean than because it's a
great lube.

I don't degrease a chain anymore (soak in solvent). I tried it for a while and found that it cleans
the chain too well, getting grease out of the deep places where it's hard to replace -- my chains
didn't last as long as when I just "wash" them with an on bike chain scrubber, usually with with
simple green. Rinse reaally well. Let it dry before lubbing.

Not sure of the lube that your shop sold you, but as long as you have it, you might was well give it
a try 🙂. I don't go for aerosols because you end up paying a lot for a mostly empty can! Wipe off
any excess lube. If you can wipe it off, it's not in a place that needs lube and it's attracting
dust and dirt 🙂.

David

Thanks for all the thoughts. It turned out that it was sprocket wear which suprised me since I've
only done 3000 miles on this cassette, changed the chain (the first was a KMC and the second a SRAM
PC58) and have always been careful to clean the chain and lube it regularly. A new HG60 (11-30)
cassette popped on by the bike shop works like a dream. I guess that the sprocket wear probably led
to premature wearing of the chain. The chainrings were fine fortunately.

I was surprised by both the wear on the cassette (HG40-8I megarange 11-34) and the chain considering
the amount of time I've spent cleaning and lubeing. The HG40 was a bit cheap 'n flexy (the new
cassette 'feels' much nicer) but even so the wear seemed excessive. Could there be something I've
been doing wrong with my maintainence routine that might lead to premature wear?

I tend to clean the chain with a rag if it's just oily or, if it's dirty, in a chainbath using
Finishline Citrus Degreaser diluted with water 5:1 as recommended then rinse with water, dry and
apply lube, leave to work in and then wipe of the excess lube with a rag. I've recently moved from
using Finishline Cross Country lube (which tends to attract dirt) to Finishline Teflon Plus.

I tend to do this when the chain is either visibly dirty on sounding in need of lube. If the chain
looks clean but needs lube then I usually just run it through a rag and re-lube.

Am I doing anything wrong?

Thanks for any thoughts, Paul.

"Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've just had a new chain (Shimano) fitted as part of a service on my bike and it's currently
skipping badly on the sprockets.

I've done 3000miles on the bike and had a change of chain at 1500miles and now a second at 3000.
Both times chain wear was acceptable (this last change was prompted by a chainchecker reading of
just under 75%) so I would hope that the cassette doesn't need replacing yet.

"Chain checkers" have been found by some to be inaccurate, I'd double check with a ruler. It sounds
like you need a new cassette.

"mark freedman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

certain way. A stiff link might work itself loose in a few km. I can't imagined a new chain
wearing enough in a few km to suddenly stop skipping on a worn cassette.

Mismatched pitch will cause very rapid wear until the pitch matches. In this case, a worn cassette
will cause rapid chain wear until things line up again.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I also noticed that the new chain is very oily/greasy,

SRAM chains are coated with a heavy lubricant which they
claim is very effective. Don't know SHimano. Some of the chain
lubes, such as ProLink, advise application onto bare metal.

Grease won't cause chain skip.

"asqui" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know it's hard to put your finger on it but for roasonably normal on-road cycling, approximately
how often should one be looking at cleaning/replacing the chain?

It depends enormously on several factors like the weight of the rider, amount of wet riding, etc.
The basic rules are: don't lube a dirty chain (so oiling interval = cleaning interval = lube
lifetime), and replace a chain when the pitch has changed over .5% (> 1/16" over a 12" run). I use a
12" steel ruler and use a pin diameter as a wear reference. A pin diameter is about 1/8".

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

certain way. A stiff link might work itself loose in a few km. I can't imagined a new chain
wearing enough in a few km to suddenly stop skipping on a worn cassette.

Mismatched pitch will cause very rapid wear until the pitch matches. In this case, a worn cassette
will cause rapid chain wear until things line up again.

The cog pitch is the same no matter how worn the cog is.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

"Ron Hardin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

certain way. A stiff link might work itself loose in a few km. I can't imagined a new chain
wearing enough in a few km to suddenly stop skipping on a worn cassette.

Mismatched pitch will cause very rapid wear until the pitch matches. In

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

case, a worn cassette will cause rapid chain wear until things line up

again.

Quoted message said:

The cog pitch is the same no matter how worn the cog is.

It's really a matter of semantics. On a worn cassette sprocket the tooth profile has changed, so
even though the "valleys" between the teeth are no farther apart (nor the tips of the teeth), so,
strictly speaking, the pitch hasn't changed, but the engaging chain will ride up on the worn
tooth, such that the next roller (coming off the derailer jockey wheel) won't line up with the
next tooth. Even though the base circle hasn't changed, the fact that the chain isn't riding on
the base circle means that for those 2 critical teeth, the pitch is effectively changed (the new
chain won't line up).