Instability Exercises

Hi Martha,

Haven't seen you over here before, though I don't lurk much anymore. I
remember you from alt.guitar.beginners, where I also don't lurk much
anymore. You're the one who used to hump your guitar :-)

Rich

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Martha Gallagher said:

Hey MFWers,

I'm still very much of a newbie to weight training. Because of an overuse
incident when I first started training, my trainer is a little wary of
having me work w/ heavy weights for now, so she's been having me work with
lighter weights/lower % of body weight for body weight exercises, but
making the exercises more challenging by introducing an instability
element, eg standing on a mat or 1 leg, lying on a ball, etc.

I can see where these are helpful in recruiting some of the smaller, less
used muscle so that I'm eventually at a point where I can start using
heavier weights and they're certainly giving my balance skills a workout.
But, I was wondering, do these sort of exercises in themselves encourage
appreciable muscle growth? Or do they just get the body in better shape to
start building muscle later?

IMO, unless you have a pathology balance boards and balls are about as
inefficient a way of exercising as there is. Sure, they are trendy and
allow trainers to demonstrate their knowledge. And that is about the
extent of their usefulness.

There is some inherent instability in any free weight exercise which
promotes recruitment of stabilizers. To introduce an unstable platform
at the closed end of the kinetic chain is completely unnecessary except
in the case where due to injury or pathology there is a pervasive reason
to do so.

I do like the idea of assymetrical loading, but prefer to do so by
lifting with one arm or in a split stance rather than stand on one leg.

I start people off with bodyweight exercises and ane-armed dumbbell
lifting, which I think can be excellent core training if done properly.
So doing something like the 5 tibetan rites (do a search using that name
if you aren't familiar with them) for a dynamic warm-up, doing hindu
squats to a tabata interval and then adding one-armed exercises like
overhead squats, presses, snatches, windmills, etc. works very well IMO.

Of course, the idea of these exercises is to promote strength and
movement more so than simply build muscle. I prefer function to
appearance. So they promote a large ROM throughtout all the joints,
joint health itself and strength through a full ROM in complex exercises.

IMO beats the living daylights out of the current trends in 'core'
training and instability training.

--
Keith

Hobbes said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Martha Gallagher said:

Hey MFWers,

I'm still very much of a newbie to weight training. Because of an overuse
incident when I first started training, my trainer is a little wary of
having me work w/ heavy weights for now, so she's been having me work with
lighter weights/lower % of body weight for body weight exercises, but
making the exercises more challenging by introducing an instability
element, eg standing on a mat or 1 leg, lying on a ball, etc.

I can see where these are helpful in recruiting some of the smaller, less
used muscle so that I'm eventually at a point where I can start using
heavier weights and they're certainly giving my balance skills a workout.
But, I was wondering, do these sort of exercises in themselves encourage
appreciable muscle growth? Or do they just get the body in better shape to
start building muscle later?

IMO, unless you have a pathology balance boards and balls are about as
inefficient a way of exercising as there is. Sure, they are trendy and
allow trainers to demonstrate their knowledge. And that is about the
extent of their usefulness.

I don't know whether I have a pathology, but I ended up at the emergency
room, because my arms swelled up so much after a workout that my doctor
thought I had blood clots. The ultrasound ruled that out, but the
technician kept saying "that's a *lot* of swelling" as she was 'sounding
my arm. I looked like Popeye - w/o the tattoos, of course.

Since neither of us wants that to happen again, she's starting me back w/
lighter weights and making the progression very gradual. I'm cardio fit
and some of my muscles seem to be able to handle a good bit of weight, but
I'm guessing that there are some weak links that need to be brought up to
par in order for me to be able to handle heavier weights.

Quoted message said:

There is some inherent instability in any free weight exercise which
promotes recruitment of stabilizers. To introduce an unstable platform
at the closed end of the kinetic chain is completely unnecessary except
in the case where due to injury or pathology there is a pervasive reason
to do so.

I think that may be me.

Quoted message said:

I do like the idea of assymetrical loading, but prefer to do so by
lifting with one arm or in a split stance rather than stand on one leg.

I start people off with bodyweight exercises and ane-armed dumbbell
lifting, which I think can be excellent core training if done properly.

Bodyweight and one armed dumbells were exactly what we had been starting
w/. She introduced the instability stuff after my trip to the ER.

Quoted message said:

So doing something like the 5 tibetan rites (do a search using that name
if you aren't familiar with them) for a dynamic warm-up, doing hindu
squats to a tabata interval and then adding one-armed exercises like
overhead squats, presses, snatches, windmills, etc. works very well IMO.

Of course, the idea of these exercises is to promote strength and
movement more so than simply build muscle. I prefer function to
appearance. So they promote a large ROM throughtout all the joints,
joint health itself and strength through a full ROM in complex exercises.

I'm not looking to build muscle for appearance in itself, but lots of
things make me think that I have lost a significant amount of muscle over
the years and as I head towards my later years I'd like to be bringing as
much muscle with me as I can. Also, if a pound of muscle burns more
calories than a pound of fat, I wouldn't mind replacing some of my fat w/
muscle.

Quoted message said:

IMO beats the living daylights out of the current trends in 'core'
training and instability training.

Thanks,
Martha

--
Sig pending

TheTortoise said:

Hi Martha,

Haven't seen you over here before, though I don't lurk much anymore. I
remember you from alt.guitar.beginners, where I also don't lurk much
anymore. You're the one who used to hump your guitar :-)

I still do - to lessons every week. However, having found that most people
seem unfamiliar with the expression "humping [one's] pack" I usually refer
to the transportation as schlepping these days.

Good to see who pops up where.

Martha

--
Sig pending

In article <[email hidden]>,

Martha Gallagher said:

Hobbes said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Martha Gallagher said:

Hey MFWers,

I'm still very much of a newbie to weight training. Because of an overuse
incident when I first started training, my trainer is a little wary of
having me work w/ heavy weights for now, so she's been having me work
with
lighter weights/lower % of body weight for body weight exercises, but
making the exercises more challenging by introducing an instability
element, eg standing on a mat or 1 leg, lying on a ball, etc.

I can see where these are helpful in recruiting some of the smaller, less
used muscle so that I'm eventually at a point where I can start using
heavier weights and they're certainly giving my balance skills a workout.
But, I was wondering, do these sort of exercises in themselves encourage
appreciable muscle growth? Or do they just get the body in better shape
to
start building muscle later?

IMO, unless you have a pathology balance boards and balls are about as
inefficient a way of exercising as there is. Sure, they are trendy and
allow trainers to demonstrate their knowledge. And that is about the
extent of their usefulness.

I don't know whether I have a pathology, but I ended up at the emergency
room, because my arms swelled up so much after a workout that my doctor
thought I had blood clots. The ultrasound ruled that out, but the
technician kept saying "that's a *lot* of swelling" as she was 'sounding
my arm. I looked like Popeye - w/o the tattoos, of course.

Since neither of us wants that to happen again, she's starting me back w/
lighter weights and making the progression very gradual. I'm cardio fit
and some of my muscles seem to be able to handle a good bit of weight, but
I'm guessing that there are some weak links that need to be brought up to
par in order for me to be able to handle heavier weights.

Quoted message said:

There is some inherent instability in any free weight exercise which
promotes recruitment of stabilizers. To introduce an unstable platform
at the closed end of the kinetic chain is completely unnecessary except
in the case where due to injury or pathology there is a pervasive reason
to do so.

I think that may be me.

Quoted message said:

I do like the idea of assymetrical loading, but prefer to do so by
lifting with one arm or in a split stance rather than stand on one leg.

I start people off with bodyweight exercises and ane-armed dumbbell
lifting, which I think can be excellent core training if done properly.

Bodyweight and one armed dumbells were exactly what we had been starting
w/. She introduced the instability stuff after my trip to the ER.

Quoted message said:

So doing something like the 5 tibetan rites (do a search using that name
if you aren't familiar with them) for a dynamic warm-up, doing hindu
squats to a tabata interval and then adding one-armed exercises like
overhead squats, presses, snatches, windmills, etc. works very well IMO.

Of course, the idea of these exercises is to promote strength and
movement more so than simply build muscle. I prefer function to
appearance. So they promote a large ROM throughtout all the joints,
joint health itself and strength through a full ROM in complex exercises.

I'm not looking to build muscle for appearance in itself, but lots of
things make me think that I have lost a significant amount of muscle over
the years and as I head towards my later years I'd like to be bringing as
much muscle with me as I can. Also, if a pound of muscle burns more
calories than a pound of fat, I wouldn't mind replacing some of my fat w/
muscle.

Quoted message said:

IMO beats the living daylights out of the current trends in 'core'
training and instability training.

It sounds to me that you simply did too much too soon - it's called
overreaching. Anything that reduces the overall volume of training would
help. It looks like your trainer has decided to do instability
exercises, which possibly could keep you interested and involved until
you can handle more overall volume. Which is fine. They aren't going to
build much muscle, but it sounds like you are in pretty poor condition.
So you don't have too do that much to get a pretty decent training
effect.

This isn't a pathology. It is really, really out of shape.

--
Keith

Martha Gallagher wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

TheTortoise said:

Hi Martha,

Haven't seen you over here before, though I don't lurk much anymore. I
remember you from alt.guitar.beginners, where I also don't lurk much
anymore. You're the one who used to hump your guitar :-)

I still do - to lessons every week. However, having found that most people
seem unfamiliar with the expression "humping [one's] pack" I usually refer
to the transportation as schlepping these days.

Good to see who pops up where.

Martha

--
Sig pending

Glad you cleared that up. I was begining to think you were a little 'weird'
;-)

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey MFWers,

I'm still very much of a newbie to weight training. Because of an
overuse
incident when I first started training, my trainer is a little wary of
having me work w/ heavy weights for now, so she's been having me work
with
lighter weights/lower % of body weight for body weight exercises, but
making the exercises more challenging by introducing an instability
element, eg standing on a mat or 1 leg, lying on a ball, etc.

I can see where these are helpful in recruiting some of the smaller,
less
used muscle so that I'm eventually at a point where I can start using
heavier weights and they're certainly giving my balance skills a
workout.
But, I was wondering, do these sort of exercises in themselves
encourage
appreciable muscle growth? Or do they just get the body in better
shape to
start building muscle later?

Martha, "appreciable muscle growth" isn't the only goal one can have in
weight training. I, e.g., have been lifting for several years with a
goal of increasing my strength without increasing my muscle size, and I
enjoy it.

That said, I agree with Keith - I do plenty of one-armed work and think
it's great, and I do one-legged work which I view primarily as assisting
my two-legged lifting, e.g., these days I often follow two-legged
barbell deadlifts with one-legged two-kettlebell deadlifts and I feel
the combination is helping me.

Finally, consider alternative to weight training - play a sport or study
a martial art instead of or in addition to weight training. These are
great ways to get into shape, too, particularly at the beginning.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Hey Steve,

Steve Freides said:

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey MFWers,

I'm still very much of a newbie to weight training. Because of an
overuse
incident when I first started training, my trainer is a little wary of
having me work w/ heavy weights for now, so she's been having me work
with
lighter weights/lower % of body weight for body weight exercises, but
making the exercises more challenging by introducing an instability
element, eg standing on a mat or 1 leg, lying on a ball, etc.

I can see where these are helpful in recruiting some of the smaller,
less
used muscle so that I'm eventually at a point where I can start using
heavier weights and they're certainly giving my balance skills a
workout.
But, I was wondering, do these sort of exercises in themselves
encourage
appreciable muscle growth? Or do they just get the body in better
shape to
start building muscle later?

Martha, "appreciable muscle growth" isn't the only goal one can have in
weight training. I, e.g., have been lifting for several years with a
goal of increasing my strength without increasing my muscle size, and I
enjoy it.

That's a good point. I'm not aiming to get huuuugge (or even noticably
muscular), but neither am I concerned about it happening - I don't have
the genetic background to make it at all likely and I have no interest in
any of the chemical interventions to make it possible. However, it's
pretty obvious that I have a deficit, particularly in upper body strength
and I figure it's easier to add muscle (and strength which I realize is
not necessarily equal to muscle) now, in my 40s, rather than later in
life. Adding the strength is critical, but having more muscle would be
nice too.

I have to admit that I like to eat and I figure if a pound of muscle
costs appreciably more to maintain than a pound of fat, then I wouldn't
mind having as much muscle as I can add given the caveats in my para.
above.

Quoted message said:

That said, I agree with Keith - I do plenty of one-armed work and think
it's great, and I do one-legged work which I view primarily as assisting
my two-legged lifting, e.g., these days I often follow two-legged
barbell deadlifts with one-legged two-kettlebell deadlifts and I feel
the combination is helping me.

Finally, consider alternative to weight training - play a sport or study
a martial art instead of or in addition to weight training. These are
great ways to get into shape, too, particularly at the beginning.

Thanks, those are good ideas. Up until I started working w/ my trainer, my
exercise was mostly the elliptical machine in the winter (5-6 days/week,
1hr/day, at what the machine says is an average of 6mph, but I'm not sure
it's right) which isn't bad for cardio work, esp. since I use the songs on
my mp3 player to vary the pace, but of course does little for upper body
strength, and swimming for about an hour to an hour and a half 4-5 days a
week during the summer. I just came back from a swim workshop where I got
all my strokes massively corrected and finally learned how to do the 'fly,
so I'm hoping that following up on that will be a good adjunct.

Thanks,
Martha

Quoted message said:

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

--
Sig pending

Hey Steve,

Steve Freides said:

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey MFWers,

I'm still very much of a newbie to weight training. Because of an
overuse
incident when I first started training, my trainer is a little wary of
having me work w/ heavy weights for now, so she's been having me work
with
lighter weights/lower % of body weight for body weight exercises, but
making the exercises more challenging by introducing an instability
element, eg standing on a mat or 1 leg, lying on a ball, etc.

I can see where these are helpful in recruiting some of the smaller,
less
used muscle so that I'm eventually at a point where I can start using
heavier weights and they're certainly giving my balance skills a
workout.
But, I was wondering, do these sort of exercises in themselves
encourage
appreciable muscle growth? Or do they just get the body in better
shape to
start building muscle later?

Martha, "appreciable muscle growth" isn't the only goal one can have in
weight training. I, e.g., have been lifting for several years with a
goal of increasing my strength without increasing my muscle size, and I
enjoy it.

That's a good point. I'm not aiming to get huuuugge (or even noticably
muscular), but neither am I concerned about it happening - I don't have
the genetic background to make it at all likely and I have no interest in
any of the chemical interventions to make it possible. However, it's
pretty obvious that I have a deficit, particularly in upper body strength
and I figure it's easier to add muscle (and strength which I realize is
not necessarily equal to muscle) now, in my 40s, rather than later in
life. Adding the strength is critical, but having more muscle would be
nice too.

I have to admit that I like to eat and I figure if a pound of muscle
costs appreciably more to maintain than a pound of fat, then I wouldn't
mind having as much muscle as I can add given the caveats in my para.
above.

Quoted message said:

That said, I agree with Keith - I do plenty of one-armed work and think
it's great, and I do one-legged work which I view primarily as assisting
my two-legged lifting, e.g., these days I often follow two-legged
barbell deadlifts with one-legged two-kettlebell deadlifts and I feel
the combination is helping me.

Finally, consider alternative to weight training - play a sport or study
a martial art instead of or in addition to weight training. These are
great ways to get into shape, too, particularly at the beginning.

Thanks, those are good ideas. Up until I started working w/ my trainer, my
exercise was mostly the elliptical machine in the winter (5-6 days/week,
1hr/day, at what the machine says is an average of 6mph, but I'm not sure
it's right) which isn't bad for cardio work, esp. since I use the songs on
my mp3 player to vary the pace, but of course does little for upper body
strength, and swimming for about an hour to an hour and a half 4-5 days a
week during the summer. I just came back from a swim workshop where I got
all my strokes massively corrected and finally learned how to do the 'fly,
so I'm hoping that following up on that will be a good adjunct.

Thanks,
Martha

Quoted message said:

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

--
Sig pending

What I failed to mention before is that I *also* hump my guitar. I've
bought one with an off-center soundhole, as that helps to mitigate the
egg-slicer effect.

:-|

Rich

Martha Gallagher said:

TheTortoise said:

Hi Martha,

Haven't seen you over here before, though I don't lurk much anymore. I
remember you from alt.guitar.beginners, where I also don't lurk much
anymore. You're the one who used to hump your guitar :-)

I still do - to lessons every week. However, having found that most people
seem unfamiliar with the expression "humping [one's] pack" I usually refer
to the transportation as schlepping these days.

Good to see who pops up where.

Martha

--
Sig pending

What I failed to mention before is that I *also* hump my guitar. I've
bought one with an off-center soundhole, as that helps to mitigate the
egg-slicer effect.

:-|

Rich

Martha Gallagher said:

TheTortoise said:

Hi Martha,

Haven't seen you over here before, though I don't lurk much anymore. I
remember you from alt.guitar.beginners, where I also don't lurk much
anymore. You're the one who used to hump your guitar :-)

I still do - to lessons every week. However, having found that most people
seem unfamiliar with the expression "humping [one's] pack" I usually refer
to the transportation as schlepping these days.

Good to see who pops up where.

Martha

--
Sig pending

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey Steve,

Steve Freides said:

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey MFWers,

I'm still very much of a newbie to weight training. Because of an
overuse
incident when I first started training, my trainer is a little wary of
having me work w/ heavy weights for now, so she's been having me work
with
lighter weights/lower % of body weight for body weight exercises, but
making the exercises more challenging by introducing an instability
element, eg standing on a mat or 1 leg, lying on a ball, etc.

I can see where these are helpful in recruiting some of the smaller,
less
used muscle so that I'm eventually at a point where I can start using
heavier weights and they're certainly giving my balance skills a
workout.
But, I was wondering, do these sort of exercises in themselves
encourage
appreciable muscle growth? Or do they just get the body in better
shape to
start building muscle later?

Martha, "appreciable muscle growth" isn't the only goal one can have in
weight training. I, e.g., have been lifting for several years with a
goal of increasing my strength without increasing my muscle size, and I
enjoy it.

That's a good point. I'm not aiming to get huuuugge (or even noticably
muscular), but neither am I concerned about it happening - I don't have
the genetic background to make it at all likely and I have no interest in
any of the chemical interventions to make it possible. However, it's
pretty obvious that I have a deficit, particularly in upper body strength
and I figure it's easier to add muscle (and strength which I realize is
not necessarily equal to muscle) now, in my 40s, rather than later in
life. Adding the strength is critical, but having more muscle would be
nice too.

I have to admit that I like to eat and I figure if a pound of muscle
costs appreciably more to maintain than a pound of fat, then I wouldn't
mind having as much muscle as I can add given the caveats in my para.
above.

Quoted message said:

That said, I agree with Keith - I do plenty of one-armed work and think
it's great, and I do one-legged work which I view primarily as assisting
my two-legged lifting, e.g., these days I often follow two-legged
barbell deadlifts with one-legged two-kettlebell deadlifts and I feel
the combination is helping me.

Finally, consider alternative to weight training - play a sport or study
a martial art instead of or in addition to weight training. These are
great ways to get into shape, too, particularly at the beginning.

Thanks, those are good ideas. Up until I started working w/ my trainer, my
exercise was mostly the elliptical machine in the winter (5-6 days/week,
1hr/day, at what the machine says is an average of 6mph, but I'm not sure
it's right) which isn't bad for cardio work, esp. since I use the songs on
my mp3 player to vary the pace, but of course does little for upper body
strength, and swimming for about an hour to an hour and a half 4-5 days a
week during the summer. I just came back from a swim workshop where I got
all my strokes massively corrected and finally learned how to do the 'fly,
so I'm hoping that following up on that will be a good adjunct.

All sounds OK - if you were swimming that much I'm guessing you weren't
going at it terribly hard - I'd be covering a couple of miles in that sort
of time.

Enjoy lifting and keep up the good work.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com