Small packs.

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:39:21 GMT, "Andrew Titley"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| Any suggestions/recommendations for 10-12 Litre sacks, maybe 'hydration
| compatible'? I've looked, briefly, at the Karrimor hydr8, Stormshield (aka
| Milletts), Berghaus Blathered (or something like that - depends what you
| fill it with I suppose), but I'm no nearer choosing.
| And yes, I should have got up earlier the day Lidl/Aldi were doing them for
| about £15!

As far as I am concerned size is not a criteria, Weight and comfort are,
so something with padded straps and waistband beats a small light
uncomfortable thing any day.

My present Day Sack is a Lidl 45 liter one GBP 14.99 with all the straps,
and pockets one would expect on a much bigger backpacking sack. It has
two huge side pockets, which will take 2 liter plastic bottles for those
who follow the latest fad. Somehow with food, wet/cold weather gear,
drinks, and my cup and ring stone hunting/recording kit it gets full, and
is then much easyer to carry than a smaller/lighter less padded one with
the same load.

Lidl move unsold offers into their larger stores, where they linger till
they are sold, so there may be some still around.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> http://www.webshots.com
Thousands of wonderful professional photos for your Wallpaper and
Screensaver. also 200,000 amateur pics. Four new pics each day.

Dave Fawthrop said:

As far as I am concerned size is not a criteria, Weight and comfort are,
so something with padded straps and waistband beats a small light
uncomfortable thing any day.

But if you're carrying not much more than a bottle of water and a
spare jersey then an over-elaborate suspension will just add weight
to no purpose and cover up more of your boday so you sweat more and
are consequently less comfortable...

Quoted message said:

My present Day Sack is a Lidl 45 liter one GBP 14.99 with all the straps,
and pockets one would expect on a much bigger backpacking sack. It has
two huge side pockets, which will take 2 liter plastic bottles for those
who follow the latest fad. Somehow with food, wet/cold weather gear,
drinks, and my cup and ring stone hunting/recording kit it gets full, and
is then much easyer to carry than a smaller/lighter less padded one with
the same load.

But if it'sfull that's 45l worth, and you won't get that lot into a
10 litre bag anyway so it's not a completely useful comparison...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

Any suggestions/recommendations for 10-12 Litre sacks, maybe 'hydration
compatible'? I've looked, briefly, at the Karrimor hydr8, Stormshield (aka
Milletts), Berghaus Blathered (or something like that - depends what you
fill it with I suppose), but I'm no nearer choosing.
And yes, I should have got up earlier the day Lidl/Aldi were doing them
for
about £15!

My wife Clare bought me a North Face Mountain Biker for Christmas. Not for
biking, but summer walking on the South Downs. Brilliant wide waist-band, 2
side pockets (hold 1L SIGG bottle each) accessible while walking, and
sufficient space in pockets for light weight jacket, lightweight fleece,
leggings, 2 butties and biscuit. And my camera pouch fits nicely on the
waist-band. Not particularly cheap ..... but great bit of kit.

See one at:

http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/eshop/The-North-Face-Mountain-Biker.html

--
sandy saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
email: saunders.sandy at ntlworld.com

'Mountains or Mole Hills ... summiting still
brings the same excitement'

I might look for one in Keswick - see you Saturday!
David
"sandy saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any suggestions/recommendations for 10-12 Litre sacks, maybe 'hydration
compatible'? I've looked, briefly, at the Karrimor hydr8, Stormshield
(aka
Milletts), Berghaus Blathered (or something like that - depends what you
fill it with I suppose), but I'm no nearer choosing.
And yes, I should have got up earlier the day Lidl/Aldi were doing them
for
about £15!

My wife Clare bought me a North Face Mountain Biker for Christmas. Not
for biking, but summer walking on the South Downs. Brilliant wide
waist-band, 2 side pockets (hold 1L SIGG bottle each) accessible while
walking, and sufficient space in pockets for light weight jacket,
lightweight fleece, leggings, 2 butties and biscuit. And my camera pouch
fits nicely on the waist-band. Not particularly cheap ..... but great bit
of kit.

See one at:

http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/eshop/The-North-Face-Mountain-Biker.html

--
sandy saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
email: saunders.sandy at ntlworld.com

'Mountains or Mole Hills ... summiting still
brings the same excitement'

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:02:51 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| But if you're carrying not much more than a bottle of water and a
| spare jersey then an over-elaborate suspension will just add weight
| to no purpose and cover up more of your boday so you sweat more and
| are consequently less comfortable...

Well the hills have almost caught me out too many times to be happy in even
the best weather without all my wet weather gear, extra food, various
emergency stuff etc. etc.

This is not paranoia because IME the hills are definitely out to get you.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> http://www.webshots.com
Thousands of wonderful professional photos for your Wallpaper and
Screensaver. also 200,000 amateur pics. Four new pics each day.

Dave Fawthrop said:

Well the hills have almost caught me out too many times to be happy in even
the best weather without all my wet weather gear, extra food, various
emergency stuff etc. etc.

Don't forget that "recreational walking" is about more than far-flung
summits on all-day trips though. There are lots of very worthwhile
danders that don't take anything like 45l of serious kit to undertake
with very reasonable safety.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:38:46 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| > Well the hills have almost caught me out too many times to be happy in even
| > the best weather without all my wet weather gear, extra food, various
| > emergency stuff etc. etc.
|
| Don't forget that "recreational walking" is about more than far-flung
| summits on all-day trips though. There are lots of very worthwhile
| danders that don't take anything like 45l of serious kit to undertake
| with very reasonable safety.

I have been had on my afternoon stroll down the local woods. Started out
on a nice fine day, with no sac at all, and walked home in a blizzard. I
was *very* glad of a good coat, woolly hat and gloves. Without them it
would have been hairy.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> http://www.webshots.com
Thousands of wonderful professional photos for your Wallpaper and
Screensaver. also 200,000 amateur pics. Four new pics each day.

Dave Fawthrop said:

I have been had on my afternoon stroll down the local woods. Started out
on a nice fine day, with no sac at all, and walked home in a blizzard. I
was *very* glad of a good coat, woolly hat and gloves. Without them it
would have been hairy.

Unpleasant, quite possibly, but very probably not life-threatening. And
the occurrence of blizzards is, while not 100% seasonal, generally
limited to times of year when people pay more attention to the forecasts.

Tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands of people go for strolls around
their local woods every week, and very few take 45l of kit with them. I
don't remember hearing government warnings about the practice, it really
isn't the sort of thing that needs specialist equipment.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Andrew Titley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any suggestions/recommendations for 10-12 Litre sacks, maybe 'hydration
compatible'? I've looked, briefly, at the Karrimor hydr8, Stormshield (aka
Milletts), Berghaus Blathered (or something like that - depends what you
fill it with I suppose), but I'm no nearer choosing.
And yes, I should have got up earlier the day Lidl/Aldi were doing them
for
about £15!

I still reckon the best lightweight sac was the Karrimor KIMM. Considering
how light and flimsy it appears to be it is remarkably comfortable. It's
larger than 12l but has a good compression system.

I haven't taken a look at them but there are modern derivatives available

http://www.kimmlite.com/packs.html

I would advise a good sturdy rubbish bag inside though (lightweight sacks
are not very waterprooof).

Roy said:

I still reckon the best lightweight sac was the Karrimor KIMM. Considering
how light and flimsy it appears to be it is remarkably comfortable. It's
larger than 12l but has a good compression system.

They're still going strong. I bought a 35l version a couple of weekends
back for the LAMM, and was suitably impressed. Lowe do a similar range
called Rush with a Wadi model that's 15l "water bladder plus odds and
ends" sort of thing.

Quoted message said:

I would advise a good sturdy rubbish bag inside though (lightweight sacks
are not very waterprooof).

The basic fabrics generally are, the difference in waterproofing is
generally all the seaming details and wee patches. On pretty much any
sack, the more needlework, the less waterproof. OTOH, if it's a fine
day sack and all you've really got inside is a waterproof, Mars bar and
a water bottle, if the sack is waterproof is rather a moot point...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Another KIMM fan. I've got the 25L version and it's the sack I use all
summer. Brill features, like the wing pockets (great for specs /
compass / nibbles), the mesh panels on the side for fitting a hat or
gloves into and the reservoir hose routing. All this and still
incredibly light. I always use a rucsac liner, so no issues over
waterproofing. It's stood up to 3 yearsof abuse over all terrains,
including a fair deal of Cuillin scrambling. No doubt what I'll be
replacing it with when (if?) it eventually expires.

nickl said:

I think the equipment retalers up here in the Lakes have a laugh really
- the number of people trudging around with large packs, garetex jackets
etc in the summer is amazing!

There is a culture in the West that says (at least to a significant
number of people) that you've Got To Have All The Gear if you're going
to do anything. Speaking as a terminally sad Gear Junkie who has a very
large amount of Stuff, I know I am in part guilty of this!

I saw a talk by Alfie Ingram of Tayside MRT a few years ago. He started
with slides of people who visit the mountains. First was of young chap
in All The Gear (and very shiny gear at that, looked like a Cover Start
from Trail! ;-)), full waterproofs, proper walking boots, sack of a size
that would accommodate all reasonable emergency precautions, setting off
into the hills. Next slide was of a shepherd setting off into the
hills, dressed in tweeds, wellies and carrying a stick and, errr, that's
it. Alf pointed out he did have a cheesy piece in his pocket so he
wouldn't starve. He then pointed out that the first guy was the one
they'd worry about, as it's far more about experience than some
catalogue of gear that the rags reviewed well.

Gear isn't a substitute for experience, but it can be better taking too
much than too little while you get your experience. IMHO it's better to
use experience to see what you can leave behind than to find excuses to
take even more, though.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"nickl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Clinch said:

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
-
Well the hills have almost caught me out too many times to be happy in
even
the best weather without all my wet weather gear, extra food, various
emergency stuff etc. etc.-

Don't forget that "recreational walking" is about more than far-flung
summits on all-day trips though. There are lots of very worthwhile
danders that don't take anything like 45l of serious kit to undertake
with very reasonable safety.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Hi Pete

Agreed.

Plus it's mad the amount of kit that some people cart about with them.
Unless you are anticipating really foul weather it is possible to walk
most of the UK for three seasons at least with a sack in the 15l - 20l
range.

Whether on the high mountains or on lowland paths I get away with this
size of sack which nowadays only weigh a pound or so themselves and
cost <£30.00.

I have tried 'bumbags' but they tend to be too small for me - I just
couldn't get my sarnies/thermos/dog scoff/map etc into one.

I think the equipment retalers up here in the Lakes have a laugh really
- the number of people trudging around with large packs, garetex jackets
etc in the summer is amazing!

Each to their own I suppose.

Cheers

Nick

--
nickl

I guess that a lot depends on where you are going etc.

I do not do the really long height stuff, mainly walking the local moors and
Yorkshire Dales areas etc.

I have recently got an 11 litre bum bag that I have yet to fill. I carry
some sarnies 2 flasks (hot and cold), waterproof jacket and trousers, first
aid kit, dried fruit etc, map and probably other things I forget about. I do
wear my fleece around my waist too though.

I just hate wearing a bag on my back as I get far too warm - but would have
to if I was doing something more adventurous.

DaveB
UK

Dave Fawthrop said:

Well the hills have almost caught me out too many times to be happy in even
the best weather without all my wet weather gear, extra food, various
emergency stuff etc. etc.

Each to their own I suppose. I almost never carry more than 45l even
in the Scottish Highlands in winter, and that's including winter
climbing kit. I used to take sleeping bag, stove, etc, but eventually
decided I was just tiring myself unnecessarily and increasing the
chances of getting into trouble.

Of course nowadays you can get super-lightweight everything, so the
elite mountain marathoners managed to fit everything for 2 people for
the weekend (including tent, stove, food, etc) into a couple of 20
litre sacks :-)

S.

--
Stop ID cards and the Database State
http://www.no2id.net/

Dave Fawthrop said:

Well the hills have almost caught me out too many times to be happy in even
the best weather without all my wet weather gear, extra food, various
emergency stuff etc. etc.

Each to their own I suppose. I almost never carry more than 45l even
in the Scottish Highlands in winter, and that's including winter
climbing kit. I used to take sleeping bag, stove, etc, but eventually
decided I was just tiring myself unnecessarily and increasing the
chances of getting into trouble.

Of course nowadays you can get super-lightweight everything, so the
elite mountain marathoners managed to fit everything for 2 people for
the weekend (including tent, stove, food, etc) into a couple of 20
litre sacks :-)

S.

--
Stop ID cards and the Database State
http://www.no2id.net/

Simon Caldwell said:

Of course nowadays you can get super-lightweight everything, so the
elite mountain marathoners managed to fit everything for 2 people for
the weekend (including tent, stove, food, etc) into a couple of 20
litre sacks :-)

ITYM " so-called tent, so-called stove, so-called food and very little
in the way of 'etc.'"... ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:36:35 +0100, nickl
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| Plus it's mad the amount of kit that some people cart about with them.
| Unless you are anticipating really foul weather it is possible to walk
| most of the UK for three seasons at least with a sack in the 15l - 20l
| range.
|
| Whether on the high mountains or on lowland paths I get away with this
| size of sack which nowadays only weigh a pound or so themselves and
| cost <£30.00.

My current problem is the other stuff I take for cup and ring stone
hunting, a 1/2 inch thick A4 book and an A4 folder, plus half as much
weight again in other junk. Without these my pack could be smaller and
lighter ;-)

The 45l Lidl sac itself is very light, I can carry it on my little finger.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> http://www.webshots.com
Thousands of wonderful professional photos for your Wallpaper and
Screensaver. also 200,000 amateur pics. Four new pics each day.

Dave Fawthrop said:

The 45l Lidl sac itself is very light, I can carry it on my little finger.

Little fingers aren't /that/ weak. I don't have any trouble lifting my
70l Lowe expedition pack with lots of trimmings by little finger when
it's empty, and that's at /least/ a couple of kilos, probably nearer 3
(maybe over 3!). More to the point for lighter loads, however, is the
surface area you can no longer ventilate through, and a 45l sack is much
worse in that respect than a Camelback or similar, and especially
compared to a large bum bag/waist pack.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

I might look for one in Keswick - see you Saturday!
David

Mine came from George Fishers, but sure there are plenty of shops in Keswick
with the same product. Great bit of kit.

Yes ..... will be at lan Hinkes's show this Saturday ....... after a gentle
'warm-up-walk-for-the-week' to Walla Crag via Ashness Bridge, starting out
from Great Wood.

--
sandy saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
email: saunders.sandy at ntlworld.com

'Mountains or Mole Hills ... summiting still
brings the same excitement'