15m surface lane marker

"Phil Schuman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a rule concerning the placement
of the 15m surface marker - or whatever it is called.
The lane marker used to show where a swimmer must
surface and begin their proper event stroke.

What is it really called, and where can I find a rule ?

USA Swimming and USMS Swimming have published rule books, the 15-meter rule
should be in there.
USMS has it on www.usms.org
I don't know the USA location of the top of my head.

Check the 2005 Rule Book for USA Swimming under section 103.13.3.

"fz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Check the 2005 Rule Book for USA Swimming under section 103.13.3.

tnx - I had found it here -
it was just a single sentence about having a different colored marker at the
15m mark,
but nothing else....
http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=95&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en-US

But still have not come across the rule about coming to the surface at the
15m marker -
Also, is there another name for the 15m marker ?

"fz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Check the 2005 Rule Book for USA Swimming under section 103.13.3.

tnx - I had found it here -
it was just a single sentence about having a different colored marker at the
15m mark,
but nothing else....
http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=95&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en-US

But still have not come across the rule about coming to the surface at the
15m marker -
Also, is there another name for the 15m marker ?

"Phil Schuman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"fz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Check the 2005 Rule Book for USA Swimming under section 103.13.3.

tnx - I had found it here -
it was just a single sentence about having a different colored marker at
the
15m mark,
but nothing else....
http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=95&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en-US

But still have not come across the rule about coming to the surface at the
15m marker -
Also, is there another name for the 15m marker ?

I think you'll find it in the rules for each stroke. For example - The head
must break the surface of the water by 15m. Obviously in breast stroke it's
different.

Wayne

Phil Schuman said:

Also, is there another name for the
15m marker ?

There may be a mark on the pool wall,
but I always look for "the flags" that
you can see when doing backstroke.

This is an intersting quiz:

http://www.swimmingatsportcentric.com/sports/officials/judge2003.htm

Man o' Tea said:

Phil Schuman said:

Also, is there another name for the
15m marker ?

There may be a mark on the pool wall,
but I always look for "the flags" that
you can see when doing backstroke.

The flags are much less than 15 meters out, yes?

Quoted message said:

This is an intersting quiz:

http://www.swimmingatsportcentric.com/sports/officials/judge2003.htm

Yes. The rules regarding 15 M are under technical rules for each
stroke. You will find them in the subsection regarding starts
(typically .1). For free, fly, and back, the head has to break the
surface y 15 M mark. In addition, you are allowed only one arm stroke
underwater. For breast, you have to break the surface after one arm
pull and one leg kick underwater. No one can reach the 15 m under such
restriction so the 15 mark is not mentioned.

Yes. The rules regarding 15 M are under technical rules for each
stroke. You will find them in the subsection regarding starts
(typically .1). For free, fly, and back, the head has to break the
surface y 15 M mark. In addition, you are allowed only one arm stroke
underwater. For breast, you have to break the surface after one arm
pull and one leg kick underwater. No one can reach the 15 m under such
restriction so the 15 mark is not mentioned.

Yes. The rules regarding 15 M are under technical rules for each
stroke. You will find them in the subsection regarding starts
(typically .1). For free, fly, and back, the head has to break the
surface by 15 M mark. In addition, you are allowed only one arm stroke

underwater for fly. For breast, you have to break the surface after
one arm
pull and one leg kick underwater. No one can reach the 15 m under such

restriction so the 15 mark is not mentioned.

"fz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes. The rules regarding 15 M are under technical rules for each
stroke. You will find them in the subsection regarding starts
(typically .1). For free, fly, and back, the head has to break the
surface y 15 M mark. In addition, you are allowed only one arm stroke
underwater. For breast, you have to break the surface after one arm
pull and one leg kick underwater. No one can reach the 15 m under such
restriction so the 15 mark is not mentioned.

Actually, to reach (or exceed) 15m with a dive and underwater pull is
trivial. 10-year-old girls can do this.

Yes. What I should had written is no one can pass 15 M mark with one
pull and one kick and still maintain great speed. It brings no benefit
to stay that long underwater if you are not allowed to kick actively as
in all other strokes.

In article <[email hidden]>,

jtaylor said:

Actually, to reach (or exceed) 15m with a dive and underwater pull is
trivial. 10-year-old girls can do this.

I agree with jtaylor that this is an oversight that probably should be
fixed in a future cycle of the FINA rules committee. I wouldn't say
that it's trivial to dive and pull 15m (well, not for me anyway), but it
can be done and might even be advantageous.

Ross

"Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jtaylor said:

Actually, to reach (or exceed) 15m with a dive and underwater pull is
trivial. 10-year-old girls can do this.

I agree with jtaylor that this is an oversight that probably should be
fixed in a future cycle of the FINA rules committee. I wouldn't say
that it's trivial to dive and pull 15m (well, not for me anyway), but it
can be done and might even be advantageous.

AFAIK the 15 meter rule was instituted so that swimmers wouldn't swim their
entire event under water. In breaststroke, there are other rules (one arm
pull and one leg kick) that prevent that from happening.
I'm not aware of anyone that can go entire pool length with just one arm
pull and one leg kick and actually be competitive.

DaKitty said:

AFAIK the 15 meter rule was instituted
so that swimmers wouldn't swim their
entire event under water. In breaststroke,
there are other rules (one arm pull and
one leg kick) that prevent that from
happening.

"It was at the 1988 Seoul Olympics that the
world saw for the first time at an inter-
national competition, the power of the
"Berkoff Blastoff" in backstroke swimming.
In the 100m race final, Dave was narrowly
touched out by Japan's David Suzuki, who
also used a form of the kick. Because the
kick created such a stir at the Games, FINA
officials voted immediately after the Games
to limit the under water portion of the race
coming off the wall, by reducing the under
water part to ten meters. Every backstroke
world record holder since has used the
"dolphin kick" as part of their start-and-
turn. Even butterfly and freestyle swimmers
have adopted it in their start-and-turns."

http://www.ishof.org/05dberkoff.html

"Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jtaylor said:

Actually, to reach (or exceed) 15m with a dive and underwater pull is
trivial. 10-year-old girls can do this.

I agree with jtaylor that this is an oversight that probably should be
fixed in a future cycle of the FINA rules committee. I

You are mistaken.

Nothing I posted can or should be construed to mean that I think the lack of
a 15 metre requirement in Breaststroke is an "oversight".

In article <[email hidden]>,

jtaylor said:

You are mistaken.

Nothing I posted can or should be construed to mean that I think the lack of
a 15 metre requirement in Breaststroke is an "oversight".

Ok. What do you mean, then? Do you - or does anyone in this thread -
have a problem with this rule or any other as it reads now?

Ross

"Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jtaylor said:

You are mistaken.

Nothing I posted can or should be construed to mean that I think the

lack of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a 15 metre requirement in Breaststroke is an "oversight".

Ok. What do you mean, then? Do you - or does anyone in this thread -
have a problem with this rule or any other as it reads now?

The backstroke turn rule is a joke.

jtaylor said:

The backstroke turn rule is a joke.

I figured they wanted to protect against
injuries to the back/top of the head.
Does anyone know if such injuries were
common before the rule change?

Backstroke is a great way to swim
comfortably for a long time in open
water, but whacking your head on the
pool wall is no fun at all.