Mountain Bikes · Public discussion

Mountain Bikers STILL Don't Get It!

Mike Vandeman · 2005-06-10T03:18:11+00:00

Mike, I recently came over some of your arguments while surfing the web. I appreciate your passion, but I feel it is misdirected. You must be a mountain biker, although you aren't honest enough to disclose that. I also feel that you open yourself up to much criticism, and that when you defend yourself, you create large gaps in your arguments. I also have concerns of the way you go about things. Assumptions: I wanted to ask you if you own your computer or if you use a public computer. For environmental reasons, I hope that you do not own a personal computer. The impact of PC's (personal computers) on the environment is tragic. The amount of waste created in pre-production to end product in PC's is alarming. You seem to be very concerned with environmental impact, yet I hope you are not being so hypocritical as to support companies who freely use lead and other toxins in order to create the semi-conductors and microchips necessary for a working PC. We should use public computers, it works just as well as one that you own, and then there will be fewer machines, and less waste. You can't justify mountain biking by trying to find fault with others. One thing has nothing to do with the other. You also seem to be a hiker. Again, if you are a user of GoreTex - I ask you to reconsider the use of this product. It is extremely distructive to the environment when being made. I don't think I have any. I'm not materialistic. Just an assumption. Articles: You also seem to argue about trail use an awful lot. Trail use is an important issue, but not as important as the enivromental distruction put on the planet by larger corporations. You can't justify mountain biking by trying to find fault with others. One thing has nothing to do with the other. If you knew something about biology, you wouldn't think trail use is insignificant. In parks, mountain biking is one of the greatest threats to wildlife. Please stop wasting your time on such minute details right now, and focus your energy on the bigger picture for now. The time you have spent writing to complain about trail use, or that humans should not be in the woods, has been wasted. The only way to get people motivated is to get them to see what they are missing or destroying in the wilderness, then maybe spending habits will change from environmentally destructive products to environmentally friendly products. That is where we will see real change, not just writing letters or posting on forums and complaining. Complaining on the internet does nothing for change. It only creates divides. Divides are useless in today's day and age. I don't create divides. They are created by people destroying nature. Arguments: You need to stop pinning one against the other. I just tell the truth. Get used to it. It does not work for the greater good. It will never work for the greater good. You put mountain bikers versus hikers and start a fire. That is destructive. You put hikers against preservationists. That is destructive. You create tensions that politically motivate people to end up doing nothing but scream at each other. That is destructive. When speaking of the enviroment, NOTHING SHOULD BE DESTRUCTIVE - EVEN DISCUSSION. I just tell the truth. Get used to it. I have helped out on projects to get a largely conservative-republican group of trout fisherman to work with a group of largely liberal-democrat environmentalists to come foward together for a common good of clean water. You would get them to scream at each other. That's nice, but it doesn't justify mountain biking. I have helped out with trail maintenance in local parks so bikers, hikers, and equestrians can use the same trails Trail maintenance, like trail construction, is destructive. You say you don't like destructive things. - and now the park has people going out, and being healthy in larger numbers than before. BS. Mountain biking drives other users out of the park. When people are healthy, health care goes down. When health care goes down, we have more money available to fund things - like parks. When health care goes down, businesses have more money. They can spend it on researching and developing environmentally friendly alternatives for American lifestyle. You CAN be healthy, without sacrificing wildlife. To pretend that you need to mountain bike is just plain dishonest. Dishonesty gets you nowhere. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Started by Mike Vandeman · 10 June 2005 · Last activity 7 July 2005 · 91 posts · 4,427 views

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Original section: Mountain Bikes
Published: 10 June 2005
Last activity: 7 July 2005
Original author: Mike Vandeman
Posts: 91
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 4,427
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Concussion and head injury

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Original post
Mike Vandeman
Archived post

10 June 2005, 03:18 UTC #1

At 10:20 AM 6/9/05 -0400 said:
Mike,
I recently came over some of your arguments while surfing the web. I appreciate
your passion, but I feel it is misdirected.
You must be a mountain biker, although you aren't honest enough to disclose
that.
Quoted message said:
I also feel that you open yourself up to much criticism, and that when you

defend yourself, you create large gaps in your arguments. I also have concerns
of the way you go about things.
Quoted message said:
Assumptions:

I wanted to ask you if you own your computer or if you use a public computer.
For environmental reasons, I hope that you do not own a personal computer. The
impact of PC's (personal computers) on the environment is tragic. The amount of
waste created in pre-production to end product in PC's is alarming. You seem to
be very concerned with environmental impact, yet I hope you are not being so
hypocritical as to support companies who freely use lead and other toxins in
order to create the semi-conductors and microchips necessary for a working PC.
We should use public computers, it works just as well as one that you own, and
then there will be fewer machines, and less waste.
You can't justify mountain biking by trying to find fault with others. One thing
has nothing to do with the other.
Quoted message said:
You also seem to be a hiker. Again, if you are a user of GoreTex - I ask you

to reconsider the use of this product. It is extremely distructive to the
environment when being made.
I don't think I have any. I'm not materialistic.
Quoted message said:
Just an assumption.
Quoted message said:
Articles:

You also seem to argue about trail use an awful lot. Trail use is an important
issue, but not as important as the enivromental distruction put on the planet by
larger corporations.
You can't justify mountain biking by trying to find fault with others. One thing
has nothing to do with the other. If you knew something about biology, you
wouldn't think trail use is insignificant. In parks, mountain biking is one of
the greatest threats to wildlife.
Quoted message said:
Please stop wasting your time on such minute details right now, and focus

your energy on the bigger picture for now. The time you have spent writing to
complain about trail use, or that humans should not be in the woods, has been
wasted. The only way to get people motivated is to get them to see what they
are missing or destroying in the wilderness, then maybe spending habits will
change from environmentally destructive products to environmentally friendly
products. That is where we will see real change, not just writing letters or
posting on forums and complaining. Complaining on the internet does nothing for
change. It only creates divides. Divides are useless in today's day and age.
I don't create divides. They are created by people destroying nature.
Quoted message said:
Arguments:

You need to stop pinning one against the other.
I just tell the truth. Get used to it.
Quoted message said:
It does not work for the greater good. It will never work for the greater

good. You put mountain bikers versus hikers and start a fire. That is
destructive. You put hikers against preservationists. That is destructive.
You create tensions that politically motivate people to end up doing nothing but
scream at each other. That is destructive. When speaking of the enviroment,
NOTHING SHOULD BE DESTRUCTIVE - EVEN DISCUSSION.
I just tell the truth. Get used to it.
Quoted message said:
I have helped out on projects to get a largely conservative-republican group of

trout fisherman to work with a group of largely liberal-democrat
environmentalists to come foward together for a common good of clean water. You
would get them to scream at each other.
That's nice, but it doesn't justify mountain biking.
Quoted message said:
I have helped out with trail maintenance in local parks so bikers, hikers, and

equestrians can use the same trails
Trail maintenance, like trail construction, is destructive. You say you don't
like destructive things.
Quoted message said:
- and now the park has people going out, and being healthy in larger numbers

than before.
BS. Mountain biking drives other users out of the park.
Quoted message said:
When people are healthy, health care goes down. When health care goes down,

we have more money available to fund things - like parks. When health care goes
down, businesses have more money. They can spend it on researching and
developing environmentally friendly alternatives for American lifestyle.
You CAN be healthy, without sacrificing wildlife. To pretend that you need to
mountain bike is just plain dishonest. Dishonesty gets you nowhere.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Report
The Gist
Archived post

10 June 2005, 04:46 UTC #2

Please disregard the previous post.
Mike Vandeman has been exposed as a professional and personal failure.
Vandeman is a cultist(synanon) and, in general, a pseudo-scientific
usenet kook.
More details(link to google groups):
http://tinyurl.com/7zqkh
http://tinyurl.com/bpd9u

Report
Anti Spam
Archived post

10 June 2005, 14:21 UTC #3

Mike,
We don't care what you say. YOU STILL Don't Get It!
Cheers!
Bug stomping, ATV riding, Mud slinging moutain biker.
PS: I have named a trail in your honor. It has several features named in
honor of your best posts, such as "Duh", "Liar", "Don't Get It",
"Concussion", etc...

Report
Mark
Archived post

10 June 2005, 15:35 UTC #4

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
At 10:20 AM 6/9/05 -0400 said:
Mike,

You still evaded my question from the threads you abandoned up top after
running out of answers mr Vanderman.
Why, as a self proclaimed ecological expert, were you posting within this
forum at a time the UK Prime Minister Mr Tony Blair was trying to persuade
the government of your country to admit the error of unilaterally failing to
ratify the kyoto protocol, and to address the impact of the US on the
worldwide environment with regard to global warming.
If you are as devoted to environmentalism as you claim, and not merely a
bigotted hiker , why do you not persue this situation on your doorstep,
caused by your own elected government, one days worth of polution from your
country does more damage to our environment than a million bikers ever will,
and whilst pollution isnt something we can ever get away from, your
government is publicy endorsing preventable over polution for the simple
reason of cost to corporate businesses.
Do you not, as an environmentalist, think that would be a worthwhile cause
to follow?
Or are you saying the million or so tonnes of greenhouse gasses a day your
country willingly produces is less harmful than mountain bikes?

Report
Sohn
Archived post

10 June 2005, 22:00 UTC #5

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
At 10:20 AM 6/9/05 -0400 said:
Mike,

You still evaded my question from the threads you abandoned up top after
running out of answers mr Vanderman.
Why, as a self proclaimed ecological expert, were you posting within this
forum at a time the UK Prime Minister Mr Tony Blair was trying to persuade
the government of your country to admit the error of unilaterally failing
to
ratify the kyoto protocol, and to address the impact of the US on the
worldwide environment with regard to global warming.
If you are as devoted to environmentalism as you claim, and not merely a
bigotted hiker , why do you not persue this situation on your doorstep,
caused by your own elected government, one days worth of polution from
your
country does more damage to our environment than a million bikers ever
will,
and whilst pollution isnt something we can ever get away from, your
government is publicy endorsing preventable over polution for the simple
reason of cost to corporate businesses.
Do you not, as an environmentalist, think that would be a worthwhile cause
to follow?
Or are you saying the million or so tonnes of greenhouse gasses a day your
country willingly produces is less harmful than mountain bikes?
This link may explain why Mike avoids answering your questions. Note the
second paragraph. http://www.mhaca.com/about.htm

Report
Mike Vandeman
Archived post

11 June 2005, 14:48 UTC #6

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:35:05 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote:
..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..news:[email hidden]...
..> At 10:20 AM 6/9/05 -0400, David Clark wrote:
..> >Mike,
..>
..
..
..You still evaded my question from the threads you abandoned up top after
..running out of answers mr Vanderman.
..
..Why, as a self proclaimed ecological expert, were you posting within this
..forum at a time the UK Prime Minister Mr Tony Blair was trying to persuade
..the government of your country to admit the error of unilaterally failing to
..ratify the kyoto protocol, and to address the impact of the US on the
..worldwide environment with regard to global warming.
..
..If you are as devoted to environmentalism as you claim, and not merely a
..bigotted hiker , why do you not persue this situation on your doorstep,
..caused by your own elected government, one days worth of polution from your
..country does more damage to our environment than a million bikers ever will,
..and whilst pollution isnt something we can ever get away from, your
..government is publicy endorsing preventable over polution for the simple
..reason of cost to corporate businesses.
..
..Do you not, as an environmentalist, think that would be a worthwhile cause
..to follow?
..
..Or are you saying the million or so tonnes of greenhouse gasses a day your
..country willingly produces is less harmful than mountain bikes?
Since most mountain bikers carry their bikes on top of their MOTOR VEHICLES,
they are a big part of the problem. Why did you neglect to mention that obvious
fact? Because you are a HYPOCRITE.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Report
Mark
Archived post

11 June 2005, 17:59 UTC #7

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:35:05 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

.
."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.news:[email hidden]...
.> At 10:20 AM 6/9/05 -0400, David Clark wrote:
.> >Mike,
.>
.
.
.You still evaded my question from the threads you abandoned up top after
.running out of answers mr Vanderman.
.
.Why, as a self proclaimed ecological expert, were you posting within this
.forum at a time the UK Prime Minister Mr Tony Blair was trying to

persuade
Quoted message said:
.the government of your country to admit the error of unilaterally failing

to
Quoted message said:
.ratify the kyoto protocol, and to address the impact of the US on the
.worldwide environment with regard to global warming.
.
.If you are as devoted to environmentalism as you claim, and not merely a
.bigotted hiker , why do you not persue this situation on your doorstep,
.caused by your own elected government, one days worth of polution from

your
Quoted message said:
.country does more damage to our environment than a million bikers ever

will,
Quoted message said:
.and whilst pollution isnt something we can ever get away from, your
.government is publicy endorsing preventable over polution for the simple
.reason of cost to corporate businesses.
.
.Do you not, as an environmentalist, think that would be a worthwhile

cause
Quoted message said:
.to follow?
.
.Or are you saying the million or so tonnes of greenhouse gasses a day

your
Quoted message said:
.country willingly produces is less harmful than mountain bikes?
Since most mountain bikers carry their bikes on top of their MOTOR

VEHICLES,
Quoted message said:
they are a big part of the problem. Why did you neglect to mention that

obvious
Quoted message said:
fact? Because you are a HYPOCRITE.
I think you need to learn the definition of hypercrite,I have in no way been
hypocritical, as I am not the one pretending to be an environmentalist. I am
just questioning whether you are, or its all just a cover for bigotry.
It seems just a very , very feeble attempt to derail the discussion, but by
the way, its documented you also own a car , what does that make you?
Id also say its a grave misnomer cars are responsible for a large proportion
of greenhouse polution, modern cars are very environmentally friendly as far
as greenhouse gas emissions go, if not in other aspects, particularly the
fuel used , and the effects of that fuels extraction from the earth..Strange
that an environmental expert, as you claim to be, is not aware of those
facts.
Perhaps you should spend a little more time fact finding instead of name
calling?
You still havent answered the question Mike.
Ill explain it in simple terms, if you are having difficulty understanding,
recent weeks have shown you to be intelectually challenged.
You say mountian biking does damage to the environment, and I have agreed
with you, we differ in that I also realise hiking and other sports do
similar damage (and you have failed to prove otherwise, despite postig in
capitals and name calling), and with managment of the trails all forms of
recreation is sustanable.
However, regardless, if the US governement continues along its chosen path,
the forestry and wilderness of both your country and the rest of the world
will cease to exist, even if every mountain bike was scrapped tomorrow.
I find it interestimng you feel it not an important issue, and deride people
such as myself as the anti christ of the environment.
It seems i am more aware of the real environmental issues than you, just for
the record, the longer you fail to answer, the more you reveal yourself as a
mere bigot, environmentalism seems to matter very little to you at all.

Report
Mike Vandeman
Archived post

12 June 2005, 05:13 UTC #8

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 17:59:13 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote:
..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..news:[email hidden]...
..> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:35:05 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]>
..wrote:
..>
..> .
..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..> .news:[email hidden]...
..> .> At 10:20 AM 6/9/05 -0400, David Clark wrote:
..> .> >Mike,
..> .>
..> .
..> .
..> .You still evaded my question from the threads you abandoned up top after
..> .running out of answers mr Vanderman.
..> .
..> .Why, as a self proclaimed ecological expert, were you posting within this
..> .forum at a time the UK Prime Minister Mr Tony Blair was trying to
..persuade
..> .the government of your country to admit the error of unilaterally failing
..to
..> .ratify the kyoto protocol, and to address the impact of the US on the
..> .worldwide environment with regard to global warming.
..> .
..> .If you are as devoted to environmentalism as you claim, and not merely a
..> .bigotted hiker , why do you not persue this situation on your doorstep,
..> .caused by your own elected government, one days worth of polution from
..your
..> .country does more damage to our environment than a million bikers ever
..will,
..> .and whilst pollution isnt something we can ever get away from, your
..> .government is publicy endorsing preventable over polution for the simple
..> .reason of cost to corporate businesses.
..> .
..> .Do you not, as an environmentalist, think that would be a worthwhile
..cause
..> .to follow?
..> .
..> .Or are you saying the million or so tonnes of greenhouse gasses a day
..your
..> .country willingly produces is less harmful than mountain bikes?
..>
..> Since most mountain bikers carry their bikes on top of their MOTOR
..VEHICLES,
..> they are a big part of the problem. Why did you neglect to mention that
..obvious
..> fact? Because you are a HYPOCRITE.
..
..I think you need to learn the definition of hypercrite,I have in no way been
..hypocritical, as I am not the one pretending to be an environmentalist.
Yes you are. You are pretending to care about global warming.
I am
..just questioning whether you are, or its all just a cover for bigotry.
..
..It seems just a very , very feeble attempt to derail the discussion, but by
..the way, its documented you also own a car , what does that make you?
..
..Id also say its a grave misnomer cars are responsible for a large proportion
..of greenhouse polution, modern cars are very environmentally friendly as far
..as greenhouse gas emissions go, if not in other aspects, particularly the
..fuel used , and the effects of that fuels extraction from the earth..Strange
..that an environmental expert, as you claim to be, is not aware of those
..facts.
..
..Perhaps you should spend a little more time fact finding instead of name
..calling?
..
..You still havent answered the question Mike.
..
..Ill explain it in simple terms, if you are having difficulty understanding,
..recent weeks have shown you to be intelectually challenged.
..
..You say mountian biking does damage to the environment, and I have agreed
..with you, we differ in that I also realise hiking and other sports do
..similar damage (and you have failed to prove otherwise, despite postig in
..capitals and name calling), and with managment of the trails all forms of
..recreation is sustanable.
..
..However, regardless, if the US governement continues along its chosen path,
..the forestry and wilderness of both your country and the rest of the world
..will cease to exist, even if every mountain bike was scrapped tomorrow.
..
..I find it interestimng you feel it not an important issue, and deride people
..such as myself as the anti christ of the environment.
..
..It seems i am more aware of the real environmental issues than you, just for
..the record, the longer you fail to answer, the more you reveal yourself as a
..mere bigot, environmentalism seems to matter very little to you at all.
Yawn.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Report
Mark
Archived post

12 June 2005, 08:57 UTC #9

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 17:59:13 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

.
."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.news:[email hidden]...
.> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:35:05 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]>
.wrote:
.>
.> .
.> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.> .news:[email hidden]...
.> .> At 10:20 AM 6/9/05 -0400, David Clark wrote:
.> .> >Mike,
.> .>
.> .
.> .
.> .You still evaded my question from the threads you abandoned up top

after
Quoted message said:
.> .running out of answers mr Vanderman.
.> .
.> .Why, as a self proclaimed ecological expert, were you posting within

this
Quoted message said:
.> .forum at a time the UK Prime Minister Mr Tony Blair was trying to
.persuade
.> .the government of your country to admit the error of unilaterally

failing
Quoted message said:
.to
.> .ratify the kyoto protocol, and to address the impact of the US on the
.> .worldwide environment with regard to global warming.
.> .
.> .If you are as devoted to environmentalism as you claim, and not merely

a
Quoted message said:
.> .bigotted hiker , why do you not persue this situation on your

doorstep,
Quoted message said:
.> .caused by your own elected government, one days worth of polution from
.your
.> .country does more damage to our environment than a million bikers ever
.will,
.> .and whilst pollution isnt something we can ever get away from, your
.> .government is publicy endorsing preventable over polution for the

simple
Quoted message said:
.> .reason of cost to corporate businesses.
.> .
.> .Do you not, as an environmentalist, think that would be a worthwhile
.cause
.> .to follow?
.> .
.> .Or are you saying the million or so tonnes of greenhouse gasses a day
.your
.> .country willingly produces is less harmful than mountain bikes?
.>
.> Since most mountain bikers carry their bikes on top of their MOTOR
.VEHICLES,
.> they are a big part of the problem. Why did you neglect to mention that
.obvious
.> fact? Because you are a HYPOCRITE.
.
.I think you need to learn the definition of hypercrite,I have in no way

been
Quoted message said:
.hypocritical, as I am not the one pretending to be an environmentalist.
Yes you are. You are pretending to care about global warming.
Where is your proof Im pretending, as you have never met me that is your
bigoted attitude to mountain bikers showing, you cant help it.
Im not pretending to care, I do care. Given that 60% of the UK landmass ,
including where I live will be underwater as direct result of polar icecap
degredation due to global warming within the next 3 to 4 generations I would
be a fool not to be.
Now answer the question.
If you are an environmentalist, why were you here posting about people dying
through accidents when all known and reputable environmental movements were
trying to back up Tony Blairs pressure on your government to U turn on the
issue of greenhouse gasses?
Why are you not interested in a global environmental disaster caused by
corporate greed and backed by your elected government.
You show your true colours again, you are not in any way interested in the
environment, you are a bigot, who hates mountain bikes, and mountain bikers,
and are trying (unsuccessfully) to use the environment as a reason to
rationalise that hatred. Maybe to rationalise it within your own head even.

Report
Mike Vandeman
Archived post

12 June 2005, 14:35 UTC #10

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:57:51 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote:
..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..news:[email hidden]...
..> On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 17:59:13 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]>
..wrote:
..>
..> .
..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..> .news:[email hidden]...
..> .> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:35:05 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]>
..> .wrote:
..> .>
..> .> .
..> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..> .> .news:[email hidden]...
..> .> .> At 10:20 AM 6/9/05 -0400, David Clark wrote:
..> .> .> >Mike,
..> .> .>
..> .> .
..> .> .
..> .> .You still evaded my question from the threads you abandoned up top
..after
..> .> .running out of answers mr Vanderman.
..> .> .
..> .> .Why, as a self proclaimed ecological expert, were you posting within
..this
..> .> .forum at a time the UK Prime Minister Mr Tony Blair was trying to
..> .persuade
..> .> .the government of your country to admit the error of unilaterally
..failing
..> .to
..> .> .ratify the kyoto protocol, and to address the impact of the US on the
..> .> .worldwide environment with regard to global warming.
..> .> .
..> .> .If you are as devoted to environmentalism as you claim, and not merely
..a
..> .> .bigotted hiker , why do you not persue this situation on your
..doorstep,
..> .> .caused by your own elected government, one days worth of polution from
..> .your
..> .> .country does more damage to our environment than a million bikers ever
..> .will,
..> .> .and whilst pollution isnt something we can ever get away from, your
..> .> .government is publicy endorsing preventable over polution for the
..simple
..> .> .reason of cost to corporate businesses.
..> .> .
..> .> .Do you not, as an environmentalist, think that would be a worthwhile
..> .cause
..> .> .to follow?
..> .> .
..> .> .Or are you saying the million or so tonnes of greenhouse gasses a day
..> .your
..> .> .country willingly produces is less harmful than mountain bikes?
..> .>
..> .> Since most mountain bikers carry their bikes on top of their MOTOR
..> .VEHICLES,
..> .> they are a big part of the problem. Why did you neglect to mention that
..> .obvious
..> .> fact? Because you are a HYPOCRITE.
..> .
..> .I think you need to learn the definition of hypercrite,I have in no way
..been
..> .hypocritical, as I am not the one pretending to be an environmentalist.
..>
..> Yes you are. You are pretending to care about global warming.
..
..Where is your proof Im pretending, as you have never met me that is your
..bigoted attitude to mountain bikers showing, you cant help it.
..
..Im not pretending to care, I do care.
Then you are TRULY a hypocrite, because mountain biking requires motor vehicle
use most of the time, to get to remote trails. Anyone who cares about global
warming shouldn't be mountain biking! DUH!
Given that 60% of the UK landmass ,
..including where I live will be underwater as direct result of polar icecap
..degredation due to global warming within the next 3 to 4 generations I would
..be a fool not to be.
..
..
..Now answer the question.
..
..If you are an environmentalist, why were you here posting about people dying
..through accidents when all known and reputable environmental movements were
..trying to back up Tony Blairs pressure on your government to U turn on the
..issue of greenhouse gasses?
..
..Why are you not interested in a global environmental disaster caused by
..corporate greed and backed by your elected government.
..
..You show your true colours again, you are not in any way interested in the
..environment, you are a bigot, who hates mountain bikes, and mountain bikers,
..and are trying (unsuccessfully) to use the environment as a reason to
..rationalise that hatred. Maybe to rationalise it within your own head even.
..
..
..
..
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Report
Mark
Archived post

12 June 2005, 14:42 UTC #11

Quoted message said:
.> .> .>
.> .> .
.> .> .
.> .> .You still evaded my question from the threads you abandoned up top
.after
.> .> .running out of answers mr Vanderman.
.> .> .
.> .> .Why, as a self proclaimed ecological expert, were you posting

within
Quoted message said:
.this
.> .> .forum at a time the UK Prime Minister Mr Tony Blair was trying to
.> .persuade
.> .> .the government of your country to admit the error of unilaterally
.failing
.> .to
.> .> .ratify the kyoto protocol, and to address the impact of the US on

the
Quoted message said:
.> .> .worldwide environment with regard to global warming.
.> .> .
.> .> .If you are as devoted to environmentalism as you claim, and not

merely
Quoted message said:
.a
.> .> .bigotted hiker , why do you not persue this situation on your
.doorstep,
.> .> .caused by your own elected government, one days worth of polution

from
Quoted message said:
.> .your
.> .> .country does more damage to our environment than a million bikers

ever
Quoted message said:
.> .will,
.> .> .and whilst pollution isnt something we can ever get away from, your
.> .> .government is publicy endorsing preventable over polution for the
.simple
.> .> .reason of cost to corporate businesses.
.> .> .
.> .> .Do you not, as an environmentalist, think that would be a

worthwhile
Quoted message said:
.> .cause
.> .> .to follow?
.> .> .
.> .> .Or are you saying the million or so tonnes of greenhouse gasses a

day
Quoted message said:
.> .your
.> .> .country willingly produces is less harmful than mountain bikes?
.> .>
.> .> Since most mountain bikers carry their bikes on top of their MOTOR
.> .VEHICLES,
.> .> they are a big part of the problem. Why did you neglect to mention

that
Quoted message said:
.> .obvious
.> .> fact? Because you are a HYPOCRITE.
.> .
.> .I think you need to learn the definition of hypercrite,I have in no

way
Quoted message said:
.been
.> .hypocritical, as I am not the one pretending to be an

environmentalist.
Quoted message said:
.>
.> Yes you are. You are pretending to care about global warming.
.
.Where is your proof Im pretending, as you have never met me that is your
.bigoted attitude to mountain bikers showing, you cant help it.
.
.Im not pretending to care, I do care.
Then you are TRULY a hypocrite, because mountain biking requires motor

vehicle
Quoted message said:
use most of the time, to get to remote trails. Anyone who cares about

global
Quoted message said:
warming shouldn't be mountain biking! DUH!
Clutching at straws again Mr Vanderman, answer the question.
Just so you know, I live in Wales, UK, I bike from my house to the trails,
you lose again.
Quoted message said:
Given that 60% of the UK landmass ,
.including where I live will be underwater as direct result of polar

icecap
Quoted message said:
.degredation due to global warming within the next 3 to 4 generations I

would
Quoted message said:
.be a fool not to be.
.
.
.Now answer the question.
.
.If you are an environmentalist, why were you here posting about people

dying
Quoted message said:
.through accidents when all known and reputable environmental movements

were
Quoted message said:
.trying to back up Tony Blairs pressure on your government to U turn on

the
Quoted message said:
.issue of greenhouse gasses?
.
.Why are you not interested in a global environmental disaster caused by
.corporate greed and backed by your elected government.
.
.You show your true colours again, you are not in any way interested in

the
Quoted message said:
.environment, you are a bigot, who hates mountain bikes, and mountain

bikers,
Quoted message said:
.and are trying (unsuccessfully) to use the environment as a reason to
.rationalise that hatred. Maybe to rationalise it within your own head

even.
Still refusing to answer the question, your little hate filled attempts to
divert the discussion arent working.

Report
Mike Vandeman
Archived post

13 June 2005, 00:41 UTC #12

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:42:24 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote:
..
..
..> .> .> .>
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> .You still evaded my question from the threads you abandoned up top
..> .after
..> .> .> .running out of answers mr Vanderman.
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> .Why, as a self proclaimed ecological expert, were you posting
..within
..> .this
..> .> .> .forum at a time the UK Prime Minister Mr Tony Blair was trying to
..> .> .persuade
..> .> .> .the government of your country to admit the error of unilaterally
..> .failing
..> .> .to
..> .> .> .ratify the kyoto protocol, and to address the impact of the US on
..the
..> .> .> .worldwide environment with regard to global warming.
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> .If you are as devoted to environmentalism as you claim, and not
..merely
..> .a
..> .> .> .bigotted hiker , why do you not persue this situation on your
..> .doorstep,
..> .> .> .caused by your own elected government, one days worth of polution
..from
..> .> .your
..> .> .> .country does more damage to our environment than a million bikers
..ever
..> .> .will,
..> .> .> .and whilst pollution isnt something we can ever get away from, your
..> .> .> .government is publicy endorsing preventable over polution for the
..> .simple
..> .> .> .reason of cost to corporate businesses.
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> .Do you not, as an environmentalist, think that would be a
..worthwhile
..> .> .cause
..> .> .> .to follow?
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> .Or are you saying the million or so tonnes of greenhouse gasses a
..day
..> .> .your
..> .> .> .country willingly produces is less harmful than mountain bikes?
..> .> .>
..> .> .> Since most mountain bikers carry their bikes on top of their MOTOR
..> .> .VEHICLES,
..> .> .> they are a big part of the problem. Why did you neglect to mention
..that
..> .> .obvious
..> .> .> fact? Because you are a HYPOCRITE.
..> .> .
..> .> .I think you need to learn the definition of hypercrite,I have in no
..way
..> .been
..> .> .hypocritical, as I am not the one pretending to be an
..environmentalist.
..> .>
..> .> Yes you are. You are pretending to care about global warming.
..> .
..> .Where is your proof Im pretending, as you have never met me that is your
..> .bigoted attitude to mountain bikers showing, you cant help it.
..> .
..> .Im not pretending to care, I do care.
..>
..> Then you are TRULY a hypocrite, because mountain biking requires motor
..vehicle
..> use most of the time, to get to remote trails. Anyone who cares about
..global
..> warming shouldn't be mountain biking! DUH!
..
..
..Clutching at straws again Mr Vanderman, answer the question.
..
..Just so you know, I live in Wales, UK, I bike from my house to the trails,
..you lose again.
BS. As I said, MOST mountain bikers drive to the trailhead. But it's typical for
you to try to change the subject.
..> Given that 60% of the UK landmass ,
..> .including where I live will be underwater as direct result of polar
..icecap
..> .degredation due to global warming within the next 3 to 4 generations I
..would
..> .be a fool not to be.
..> .
..> .
..> .Now answer the question.
..> .
..> .If you are an environmentalist, why were you here posting about people
..dying
..> .through accidents when all known and reputable environmental movements
..were
..> .trying to back up Tony Blairs pressure on your government to U turn on
..the
..> .issue of greenhouse gasses?
..> .
..> .Why are you not interested in a global environmental disaster caused by
..> .corporate greed and backed by your elected government.
..> .
..> .You show your true colours again, you are not in any way interested in
..the
..> .environment, you are a bigot, who hates mountain bikes, and mountain
..bikers,
..> .and are trying (unsuccessfully) to use the environment as a reason to
..> .rationalise that hatred. Maybe to rationalise it within your own head
..even.
..
..
..Still refusing to answer the question, your little hate filled attempts to
..divert the discussion arent working.
Still trying to change the subject from mountain biking damage to Mike Vandeman?
It's understandable that you wouldn't want to tell the truth about mountain
biking -- it isn't pretty! But these newsgroups aren't about me. DUH!
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Report
Mark
Archived post

13 June 2005, 08:10 UTC #13

Quoted message said:
.> .be a fool not to be.
.> .
.> .
.> .Now answer the question.
.> .
.> .If you are an environmentalist, why were you here posting about people
.dying
.> .through accidents when all known and reputable environmental movements
.were
.> .trying to back up Tony Blairs pressure on your government to U turn on
.the
.> .issue of greenhouse gasses?
.> .
.> .Why are you not interested in a global environmental disaster caused

by
Quoted message said:
.> .corporate greed and backed by your elected government.
.> .
.> .You show your true colours again, you are not in any way interested in
.the
.> .environment, you are a bigot, who hates mountain bikes, and mountain
.bikers,
.> .and are trying (unsuccessfully) to use the environment as a reason to
.> .rationalise that hatred. Maybe to rationalise it within your own head
.even.
.
.
.Still refusing to answer the question, your little hate filled attempts

to
Quoted message said:
.divert the discussion arent working.
Still trying to change the subject from mountain biking damage to Mike

Vandeman?
Quoted message said:
It's understandable that you wouldn't want to tell the truth about

mountain
Quoted message said:
biking -- it isn't pretty! But these newsgroups aren't about me. DUH!
If you want my answers to your biking claims, merely look through your post
history, I back you into a corner, you merely start new threads with the
exact same content rather than continue the discussion.
I have never once denied mountain biking is harmful , but it is sustainable
with sensible trail management.
I ride on sustainable managed trails, that are mountain biker exclusive,
and off limits to hikers, and , ironically, the upkeep of the hiking trails
in this area per annum costs 60% more than the upkeep of the biking trails,
simply because the hiking trails suffer more degredation, mainly from path
widening as groups walk 4 or 5 abreast, rather than single file as mountain
bikes tend to travel.(Source, if you wish to deny it, UK Forestry
commission).
Im asking you why , as you claim to be an environmentalist, you are here
posting about people dying at a time when the worlds environmental experts
(which you proclaim yourself to be) are focussing on the unilateral
ignorance of the US government and corporate philosophy of ignoring the
global warming issues in order to lessen capitol expenditure.
I note you cant answer, because you have no environmental concerns, it is
just a smoke screen for pure bigotry.

Report
Mike Vandeman
Archived post

13 June 2005, 14:58 UTC #14

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:10:52 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote:
..
..> .> .be a fool not to be.
..> .> .
..> .> .
..> .> .Now answer the question.
..> .> .
..> .> .If you are an environmentalist, why were you here posting about people
..> .dying
..> .> .through accidents when all known and reputable environmental movements
..> .were
..> .> .trying to back up Tony Blairs pressure on your government to U turn on
..> .the
..> .> .issue of greenhouse gasses?
..> .> .
..> .> .Why are you not interested in a global environmental disaster caused
..by
..> .> .corporate greed and backed by your elected government.
..> .> .
..> .> .You show your true colours again, you are not in any way interested in
..> .the
..> .> .environment, you are a bigot, who hates mountain bikes, and mountain
..> .bikers,
..> .> .and are trying (unsuccessfully) to use the environment as a reason to
..> .> .rationalise that hatred. Maybe to rationalise it within your own head
..> .even.
..> .
..> .
..> .Still refusing to answer the question, your little hate filled attempts
..to
..> .divert the discussion arent working.
..>
..> Still trying to change the subject from mountain biking damage to Mike
..Vandeman?
..> It's understandable that you wouldn't want to tell the truth about
..mountain
..> biking -- it isn't pretty! But these newsgroups aren't about me. DUH!
..
..If you want my answers to your biking claims, merely look through your post
..history, I back you into a corner, you merely start new threads with the
..exact same content rather than continue the discussion.
..I have never once denied mountain biking is harmful , but it is sustainable
..with sensible trail management.
Your definition of "sustainable" must be bogus. Killing animals and plants is
not "sustainable".
..I ride on sustainable managed trails, that are mountain biker exclusive,
..and off limits to hikers, and , ironically, the upkeep of the hiking trails
..in this area per annum costs 60% more than the upkeep of the biking trails,
..simply because the hiking trails suffer more degredation, mainly from path
..widening as groups walk 4 or 5 abreast, rather than single file as mountain
..bikes tend to travel.(Source, if you wish to deny it, UK Forestry
..commission).
Hikers don't do as much damage to trails, per person, as bikers do.
..Im asking you why , as you claim to be an environmentalist, you are here
..posting about people dying at a time when the worlds environmental experts
..(which you proclaim yourself to be) are focussing on the unilateral
..ignorance of the US government and corporate philosophy of ignoring the
..global warming issues in order to lessen capitol expenditure.
Juts as YOU are ignoring mountain bikers' contribution to global warming.
..I note you cant answer, because you have no environmental concerns, it is
..just a smoke screen for pure bigotry.
..
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Report
Mark
Archived post

13 June 2005, 18:38 UTC #15

Quoted message said:
.> .> .
.> .> .
.> .> .Now answer the question.
.> .> .
.> .> .If you are an environmentalist, why were you here posting about

people
Quoted message said:
.> .dying
.> .> .through accidents when all known and reputable environmental

movements
Quoted message said:
.> .were
.> .> .trying to back up Tony Blairs pressure on your government to U turn

on
Quoted message said:
.> .the
.> .> .issue of greenhouse gasses?
.> .> .
.> .> .Why are you not interested in a global environmental disaster

caused
Quoted message said:
.by
.> .> .corporate greed and backed by your elected government.
.> .> .
.> .> .You show your true colours again, you are not in any way interested

in
Quoted message said:
.> .the
.> .> .environment, you are a bigot, who hates mountain bikes, and

mountain
Quoted message said:
.> .bikers,
.> .> .and are trying (unsuccessfully) to use the environment as a reason

to
Quoted message said:
.> .> .rationalise that hatred. Maybe to rationalise it within your own

head
Quoted message said:
.> .even.
.> .
.> .
.> .Still refusing to answer the question, your little hate filled

attempts
Quoted message said:
.to
.> .divert the discussion arent working.
.>
.> Still trying to change the subject from mountain biking damage to Mike
.Vandeman?
.> It's understandable that you wouldn't want to tell the truth about
.mountain
.> biking -- it isn't pretty! But these newsgroups aren't about me. DUH!
.
.If you want my answers to your biking claims, merely look through your

post
Quoted message said:
.history, I back you into a corner, you merely start new threads with the
.exact same content rather than continue the discussion.
.I have never once denied mountain biking is harmful , but it is

sustainable
Quoted message said:
.with sensible trail management.
Your definition of "sustainable" must be bogus. Killing animals and plants

is
Quoted message said:
not "sustainable".
Animals and plants are dying every day to cars, housing expansion, gas
polution (particularly from your country) , commercial mining and
deforestation.
Any effects of 5 million mountain bikers is insignificant compared to that,
so why only persue this group, why are you not persuing the major causes of
damage?(not to mention the 45 million hikers that do , as we have
established using your figures in the other thread, 1.9 times the damage of
bikers globally, and of which you are one).
The only answer is bigotry, this isnt about the environment at all, thats
just an excuse.
Quoted message said:
.I ride on sustainable managed trails, that are mountain biker exclusive,
.and off limits to hikers, and , ironically, the upkeep of the hiking

trails
Quoted message said:
.in this area per annum costs 60% more than the upkeep of the biking

trails,
Quoted message said:
.simply because the hiking trails suffer more degredation, mainly from

path
Quoted message said:
.widening as groups walk 4 or 5 abreast, rather than single file as

mountain
Quoted message said:
.bikes tend to travel.(Source, if you wish to deny it, UK Forestry
.commission).
Hikers don't do as much damage to trails, per person, as bikers do.
You havent yet posted figures to prove it.(And no, the Wilson report doesnt
prove anything)
Quoted message said:
.Im asking you why , as you claim to be an environmentalist, you are here
.posting about people dying at a time when the worlds environmental

experts
Quoted message said:
.(which you proclaim yourself to be) are focussing on the unilateral
.ignorance of the US government and corporate philosophy of ignoring the
.global warming issues in order to lessen capitol expenditure.
Juts as YOU are ignoring mountain bikers' contribution to global warming.
I am not the issue here, Im not posting on a supposed environmental crusade,
you are.
As an aside, your refrigerator puts our more chemical pollution in a day
than my car does on a 2 hour drive (which is about all I do in a week),
learn a few facts about global warming and gas pollution before saying
anything, your ignorance on the subject is a little pathetic.
Are you now claiming only mountain bikers use cars? Your bigotry knows no
bounds.
Quoted message said:
.I note you cant answer, because you have no environmental concerns, it is
.just a smoke screen for pure bigotry.
.

Report
Mark
Archived post

14 June 2005, 08:25 UTC #16

Quoted message said:
.
.> .> .> .
.> .> .> .
.> .> .> .Now answer the question.
.> .> .> .
.> .> .> .If you are an environmentalist, why were you here posting about
.people
.> .> .dying
.> .> .> .through accidents when all known and reputable environmental
.movements
.> .> .were
.> .> .> .trying to back up Tony Blairs pressure on your government to U

turn
Quoted message said:
.on
.> .> .the
.> .> .> .issue of greenhouse gasses?
.> .> .> .
.> .> .> .Why are you not interested in a global environmental disaster
.caused
.> .by
.> .> .> .corporate greed and backed by your elected government.
.> .> .> .
.> .> .> .You show your true colours again, you are not in any way

interested
Quoted message said:
.in
.> .> .the
.> .> .> .environment, you are a bigot, who hates mountain bikes, and
.mountain
.> .> .bikers,
.> .> .> .and are trying (unsuccessfully) to use the environment as a

reason
Quoted message said:
.to
.> .> .> .rationalise that hatred. Maybe to rationalise it within your own
.head
.> .> .even.
.> .> .
.> .> .
.> .> .Still refusing to answer the question, your little hate filled
.attempts
.> .to
.> .> .divert the discussion arent working.
.> .>
.> .> Still trying to change the subject from mountain biking damage to

Mike
Quoted message said:
.> .Vandeman?
.> .> It's understandable that you wouldn't want to tell the truth about
.> .mountain
.> .> biking -- it isn't pretty! But these newsgroups aren't about me.

DUH!
Quoted message said:
.> .
.> .If you want my answers to your biking claims, merely look through your
.post
.> .history, I back you into a corner, you merely start new threads with

the
Quoted message said:
.> .exact same content rather than continue the discussion.
.> .I have never once denied mountain biking is harmful , but it is
.sustainable
.> .with sensible trail management.
.>
.> Your definition of "sustainable" must be bogus. Killing animals and

plants
Quoted message said:
.is
.> not "sustainable".
.
.Animals and plants are dying every day to cars, housing expansion, gas
.polution (particularly from your country) , commercial mining and
.deforestation.
.Any effects of 5 million mountain bikers is insignificant compared to

that,
Quoted message said:
.so why only persue this group, why are you not persuing the major causes

of
Quoted message said:
.damage?
Your insistence on changing the subject is duly noted. Killing animals and
plants is not sustainable, regardless of whom you compare yourself with.
Not a change of subject, a fact. Animal and plants are dying every day, and
those same animals will continue to dies every day even if every bike in the
world was scrapped tomorrow.
Im asking you why you persue bikes and not the real cause, the 2 species a
week being obliterated by deforestation for instance, mountain biking doen
not, and has not, caused the extinction of any species, deforestation is
resonsible for the exticition of 100 species a year, possibly more.
yet you only consider mountain bikes a threat. Why?
Quoted message said:
(not to mention the 45 million hikers that do , as we have
.established using your figures in the other thread, 1.9 times the damage

of
Quoted message said:
.bikers globally, and of which you are one).
.The only answer is bigotry, this isnt about the environment at all, thats
.just an excuse.
.
.
.> .I ride on sustainable managed trails, that are mountain biker

exclusive,
Quoted message said:
.> .and off limits to hikers, and , ironically, the upkeep of the hiking
.trails
.> .in this area per annum costs 60% more than the upkeep of the biking
.trails,
.> .simply because the hiking trails suffer more degredation, mainly from
.path
.> .widening as groups walk 4 or 5 abreast, rather than single file as
.mountain
.> .bikes tend to travel.(Source, if you wish to deny it, UK Forestry
.> .commission).
.>
.> Hikers don't do as much damage to trails, per person, as bikers do.
.
.You havent yet posted figures to prove it.(And no, the Wilson report

doesnt
Quoted message said:
.prove anything)
.
.
.> .Im asking you why , as you claim to be an environmentalist, you are

here
Quoted message said:
.> .posting about people dying at a time when the worlds environmental
.experts
.> .(which you proclaim yourself to be) are focussing on the unilateral
.> .ignorance of the US government and corporate philosophy of ignoring

the
Quoted message said:
.> .global warming issues in order to lessen capitol expenditure.
.>
.> Juts as YOU are ignoring mountain bikers' contribution to global

warming.
Quoted message said:
.
.
.I am not the issue here, Im not posting on a supposed environmental

crusade,
Quoted message said:
.you are.
You are claiming that mountain biking's impacts are "insignificant", so
deliberately IGNORING those impacts does reflect on your arguments and

your
Quoted message said:
personal credibility (which is about ZERO at this point). DUH!

No, I am not ignoring damage done by bikes, I have mentioned it several
times, just as I have mentioned hiking damage, something you DO ignore.
However, I do not have the blind hatred you have, and can look at the big
picture.I say the damage done by hiking and biking is 'insignificant' for
one reason, and it isnt to ignore it. Its called perspective.
The trails I ride, and the trails you hike down, are dying. they will
continue to die, from global pollution, deforestation (logging in your
country ), urban expansion, regerdless of what you or I do as our chosen
leisure activities.
That is why I ask you, why do you persue mountain biking, when the trails
and environment you care about are under much greater threat from your own
government, yet you ignore that.
You have your priorities totally upside down, if you want to stop
recreational degredation, thats fine, but hiking is part of that, just as
horse riding, mountain biking, skiiing, snowboarding etc, you cant pick one
over another if your goal is to save the habitat.
Either way, unless the global pollution epidemic , caused by your, and other
countries governments, is stopped, that campaign is totally irrelevent,
simply because those trails, and the environement surrounding them, will be
dead regardless.
That is why, as we are now, biking, hiking and other leasure activities
register as insignificant.
Coming from someone who resorts to childish name calling when confronted
with truth, I find it laughable you try to point at my credibility in the
same sentence.
Quoted message said:
.As an aside, your refrigerator puts our more chemical pollution in a day
.than my car does on a 2 hour drive (which is about all I do in a week),
.learn a few facts about global warming and gas pollution before saying
.anything, your ignorance on the subject is a little pathetic.
.Are you now claiming only mountain bikers use cars? Your bigotry knows no
.bounds.
.
.> .I note you cant answer, because you have no environmental concerns, it

is
Quoted message said:
.> .just a smoke screen for pure bigotry.
.> .

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Chris Foster
Archived post

20 June 2005, 18:50 UTC #17

I actually hate to disagree with anyone who is making fun of Mikey, but
......
Average car in the US uses approx 5 gallons of gas a week, or approx 250
gallons/yr. Which is about 1 ton of gasoline/yr.
Once combustion occures, about 3 tons of CO/CO2 is released.
Hardly seems insignificant.
I ride my road bike to/from work everyday
"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
Quoted message said:

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:35:05 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

.
."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.news:[email hidden]...
.> At 10:20 AM 6/9/05 -0400, David Clark wrote:
.> >Mike,
.>
.
.
.You still evaded my question from the threads you abandoned up top
after .running out of answers mr Vanderman.
.
.Why, as a self proclaimed ecological expert, were you posting within
this .forum at a time the UK Prime Minister Mr Tony Blair was trying
to

persuade
Quoted message said:
.the government of your country to admit the error of unilaterally
failing

to
Quoted message said:
.ratify the kyoto protocol, and to address the impact of the US on
the .worldwide environment with regard to global warming.
.
.If you are as devoted to environmentalism as you claim, and not
merely a .bigotted hiker , why do you not persue this situation on
your doorstep, .caused by your own elected government, one days worth
of polution from

your
Quoted message said:
.country does more damage to our environment than a million bikers
ever

will,
Quoted message said:
.and whilst pollution isnt something we can ever get away from, your
.government is publicy endorsing preventable over polution for the
simple .reason of cost to corporate businesses.
.
.Do you not, as an environmentalist, think that would be a worthwhile

cause
Quoted message said:
.to follow?
.
.Or are you saying the million or so tonnes of greenhouse gasses a
day

your
Quoted message said:
.country willingly produces is less harmful than mountain bikes?
Since most mountain bikers carry their bikes on top of their MOTOR

VEHICLES,
Quoted message said:
they are a big part of the problem. Why did you neglect to mention
that

obvious
Quoted message said:
fact? Because you are a HYPOCRITE.
I think you need to learn the definition of hypercrite,I have in no
way been hypocritical, as I am not the one pretending to be an
environmentalist. I am just questioning whether you are, or its all
just a cover for bigotry.
It seems just a very , very feeble attempt to derail the discussion,
but by the way, its documented you also own a car , what does that
make you?
Id also say its a grave misnomer cars are responsible for a large
proportion of greenhouse polution, modern cars are very
environmentally friendly as far as greenhouse gas emissions go, if not
in other aspects, particularly the fuel used , and the effects of that
fuels extraction from the earth..Strange that an environmental expert,
as you claim to be, is not aware of those facts.
Perhaps you should spend a little more time fact finding instead of
name calling?
You still havent answered the question Mike.
Ill explain it in simple terms, if you are having difficulty
understanding, recent weeks have shown you to be intelectually
challenged.
You say mountian biking does damage to the environment, and I have
agreed with you, we differ in that I also realise hiking and other
sports do similar damage (and you have failed to prove otherwise,
despite postig in capitals and name calling), and with managment of
the trails all forms of recreation is sustanable.
However, regardless, if the US governement continues along its chosen
path, the forestry and wilderness of both your country and the rest of
the world will cease to exist, even if every mountain bike was
scrapped tomorrow.
I find it interestimng you feel it not an important issue, and deride
people such as myself as the anti christ of the environment.
It seems i am more aware of the real environmental issues than you,
just for the record, the longer you fail to answer, the more you
reveal yourself as a mere bigot, environmentalism seems to matter very
little to you at all.

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SuperG
Archived post

21 June 2005, 04:51 UTC #18

Mountain biking contributes to global warming? Hummmm.... you just
convinced me to give up the sport and buy an ATV...
Mike Vandeman said:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:10:52 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote:
Juts as YOU are ignoring mountain bikers' contribution to global warming.
Quoted message said:

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

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Jeff Strickland
Archived post

22 June 2005, 03:03 UTC #19

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:10:52 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Juts as YOU are ignoring mountain bikers' contribution to global warming.
Am I reading this right? Mike is saying that mountain bikes contribute to
global warming! How? Do bike riders fart more than everybody else?

Report
Shaun aRe
Archived post

22 June 2005, 09:41 UTC #20

"Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:10:52 GMT, "Mark" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Juts as YOU are ignoring mountain bikers' contribution to global

warming.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Am I reading this right? Mike is saying that mountain bikes contribute to
global warming! How? Do bike riders fart more than everybody else?
Manufacture of plastics, rubber, refined oils and greases, the smelting of
steel and aluminium, etc. etc. etc. Sorry Jeff, but ya gotta accept that
much.
Shaun aRe

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