hang the [censored]

Yes, this is obscene. But I think there is a very serious consequence also. In that it gives others
who have traffic rage syndrome, who may resent bicyclists on the rod, less inhibition to swerve over
and cut bicyclist off. Publicly inciting such behavior gives others who have a grudge against
bicyclists a license to feel and act the same. Their rational for such behaviour being okays is the
fact that there are others who think it is okay. It is very much similar to anti-semitism and
racism, you let a few people air the views too much and others with deep seeded grudges thinks it is
okay for him because there are others think that way.

Someone at this point may argue for freedom of speech. The concept of freedom of speech unqualified
is a pretty stupid idea, one that is advocated by peope is the US and the West who do not think
deeply on political philosophy matters. I am not against freedom of speech, I am for it. I am for
freedom of speech where it is important and matters for understanding and betterment of life and
exchange of good ideas, but I am against freedom of speech as an unqualified concept. When the
founding fathers of the US and the philosophes of the Western world developed the concept of free
speech there was a "context" to the words "freedom of speech". Specifically they wanted people to
have freedom of speech so that you can speak out against tyranny and introduce ideas which would
enlighten people an allow mankind to progress and science and knowledge to progress. They also
wanted freedom of speech so you don't have to be forced to believe in someone elses God -- a lot of
the founding fathers were Deitist -- which is something which the religious christian right of the
US would call a heresy today. Freedom of speech is good, but freedom of speech, unqualified,
absolute and without contextt is for unthinking adolescents who want their way no matter what.

Maybe the Middle East and other non-Western nations reject Western notions of freedom and liberal
democracy because all they tune into is the worst effects of this empty call for "Freedom"
unqualified.-- all they tune into

arugment for freedom and free speech and human rights, freedom and free speech in the context of
moving humanity forward by allowing decentralized decision making and individual assessment of
information and judgment of how to best .( Freedom if it works does require the indiviudal to be
informed.)

When George Bush presents the work "Freedom" -- it don't mean a lot -- I am not arguing that freedom
is not good. What I am arguing is that when George Bush says freedom, it is like a primal grunt
without to context, thought or substance behind it.

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just saw a wee note in the trikes list about the Cleveland Ohio incident on Public radio re: a
D.J. advocating the slaughter of cyclists "for fun".

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just saw a wee note in the trikes list about the Cleveland Ohio incident on Public radio re: a
D.J. advocating the slaughter of cyclists "for fun".

I

Quoted message said:

am no longer living in the USA so anything I say to the FCC will go

nowhere.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know IF a printable transcript can be obtained re: what the DJ said and what he
ALLOWED the wingnuts who called in to the Radio station

to

Quoted message said:

say (without filtering)?

Howard Stern made a good living doing Shock Radio, but Howard did not advocate the killing of
cyclists "just for fun". In my almost 5 decades on

a

Quoted message said:

bicycle I have seen way more horrific accidents involving cyclists and

cars

Quoted message said:

than I care to remember and to have a DJ on a Pulic Radio station

advocating

Quoted message said:

and or suggesting his listeners start taking out cyclists is totally obscene.

This DJ and the Radio station employing him should be taken to a public square, tarred &
feathered and run out of Cleveland. A good way to get the FCC and Washington to sit up and take
notice of this incident would be cyclists across America and in Canada to "threaten" a "Trade
Embargo" against the entire City of Cleveland....lifted ONLY after the Tar & Feathering has been
carried out.

I'd think this anti-cyclist incident should be more than enough to get Martin Kreig of the NBG to
go balistic?

Joshua Goldberg said:

I just saw a wee note in the trikes list about the Cleveland Ohio incident on Public radio re: a
D.J. advocating the slaughter of cyclists "for fun". ...

You're a little late Josh. It's already been announced that the station has acknowledged that the
show went over the line, and has agreed to make ammends. They have apparently promised apologies and
donations to bicycle projects, for starters. What made them see the error of their ways was the
deluge of angry e-mail from cyclists, not only to the station but to their advertisers. More e-mail
is not needed; in fact, it may be counter-productive.
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%)
_________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____

Thanx John... Curious...was there any explanation offered as to why the DJ acted in such a stupid
manner in the 1st place?
*************************************
"John Foltz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Joshua Goldberg said:

I just saw a wee note in the trikes list about the Cleveland Ohio

incident

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on Public radio re: a D.J. advocating the slaughter of cyclists "for

fun".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...

You're a little late Josh. It's already been announced that the station has acknowledged that the
show went over the line, and has agreed to make ammends. They have apparently promised apologies
and donations to bicycle projects, for starters. What made them see the error of their ways was
the deluge of angry e-mail from cyclists, not only to the station but to their advertisers. More
e-mail is not needed; in fact, it may be counter-productive.
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%) _________(_)`=()___________________(_)=
(_)_____

Joshua Goldberg said:

Thanx John... Curious...was there any explanation offered as to why the DJ acted in such a stupid
manner in the 1st place?

Don't know. I am not in the listening area. Here is the text I have, so you will know what I know.

(pasted from HPV list)

Quoted message said:

Due to a flood of e-mails, phone calls and letters, Clear Channel Communications and WMJI-Majic
105 in Cleveland have agreed to help correct the wrongs that their broadcasts caused last week.

Negotiations are underway and Clear Channel has agreed to a number of items revolving around:

- Running Public Service Announcements on all six of their stations in the northern Ohio market.

- Donating a substantial amount of money toward local bicycling causes.

- Helping with programs and events such as Safe Routes to School and public safety education.

- Supporting and promoting the America Bikes agenda with national and local politicians.

- Public apologies from those DJs who offended all of us with their anti-bicycling comments.

AS OF TODAY, FRIDAY JULY 11th, WE CAN STOP E- MAILING COMPLAINTS ABOUT THEIR REPREHENSIBLE
BROADCASTS.

Station management and the DJs understand that what they said was wrong. They are in the process
of making things right, but for them to focus on turning things around we need to free up their
computers.

Thank you for your quick response. It's great to see freedom of speech used in a positive way.

Please forward this to anyone that you may have sent the original Call to Action to so that the
word gets out. If you are the administrator of a webpage or see the original Call to Action still
posted on a webpage, please post this update as soon as possible.

Lois Cowan Century Cycles

--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%)
_________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just saw a wee note in the trikes list about the Cleveland Ohio incident on Public radio re: a
D.J. advocating the slaughter of cyclists "for fun".

<snip>

Quoted message said:

to have a DJ on a Pulic Radio station advocating and or suggesting his listeners start taking out
cyclists is totally obscene.

This DJ and the Radio station employing him should be taken to a public square, tarred & feathered
and run out of Cleveland.

Tar & feathering was a good example of direct democracy. It was also a good example of mob rule. As
romantically attractive as such an event would be, it's unconscionable today. It would undo what the
ACLU and many others have fought for 80 years to establish (Miranda, etc.)

I take this kind of thing quite seriously, though not literally: I don't really believe that the
shock jocks specifically intend to incite genocide via mass serial vehicular manslaughter. I *do*
believe, however, that they are sending a clear message that intolerance is acceptible, and even an
entitlement for road-rage-infected self-consumed cell-phone-addicted SUV-driving victims of the "you
can and should have it all" mentality. When genocidal wish fulfillment via vehicular manslaughter
starts to look like a good pressure relief valve, there is something gravely wrong with our society.

I'd like to see a PR campaign to scare the bejeezus out of road ragers who might actually think they
could get away with hit-and-run attempted vehicular homicide (against anyone, not just cyclists).
All you have to do is air some 30-second ad spots introducing road-ragers to their future
anal-rapist cellmates in prison, where they will be serving out a 10-year sentence for vehicular
manslaughter and aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. I think they'll calm down one helluva lot.
These fools need to know that there *are* grave consequences for their actions. The shock jocks
aren't going to remind them of this unpleasant fact.

Barry

Truly the conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

Democracy is exactly mob rule, you fool. Democracy is the rule of fools by fools. Men are ruled by
principle, morals and law. Men are not ruled by a system that panders to the lowest common
denominator and especially when that common denominator is diminished by progressive education.

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jphQa.48235$GL4.12587@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

Tar & feathering was a good example of direct democracy. It was also a

good

Quoted message said:

example of mob rule. As romantically attractive as such an event would

be,

Quoted message said:

it's unconscionable today. It would undo what the ACLU and many others

have

Quoted message said:

fought for 80 years to establish (Miranda, etc.)

Doug Huffman said:

Truly the conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

Democracy is exactly mob rule, you fool. Democracy is the rule of fools by fools. Men are ruled by
principle, morals and law. Men are not ruled by a system that panders to the lowest common
denominator and especially when that common denominator is diminished by progressive education.

Yes, our lives would be so much better if we were ruled by King Huffman with his +4 SD IQ. 😉

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Truly the conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

Democracy is exactly mob rule, you fool. Democracy is the rule of fools

by

Quoted message said:

fools.

So what do you prefer? Monarchy? Fascism? Anarchy? Libertarian Free Market Global Corporate
Oligarchy? I'm guessing the latter, judging by your arrogant tone. You're an engineer, right? Read a
lot of Rand, Friedman, Smith, etc? Yeah, I know the type.

Quoted message said:

Men are ruled by principle, morals and law.

...which a healthy society teaches them by example.

Quoted message said:

Men are not ruled by a system that panders to the lowest common denominator

Apparently, you are incorrect. Witness today's "leadership" practicing overt deceit and corruption,
and a media filled with LCD's as far as the eye can see. Looks like pandering to the LCD to me.

Quoted message said:

and especially when that common denominator is diminished by progressive education.

Mmmmkay. So what are you proposing? Let Edison run all of the schools? How about letting Christian
churches run all of the schools? That would really work for the Agnostic, Islamic, Jewish and
Buddhist kids. Hey...maybe we could have a re-organized division of Enron run the schools, with
Arthur Andersen handling the accounting. We'll teach the children to snub public institutions
("That's where the poor people go, right Daddy?"😉, and to worship the CEO as a demigod.

WAAAAAA HAAAA HAAAAAA!

I needed a good laugh today.

Barry

Quoted message said:

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jphQa.48235$GL4.12587@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

Tar & feathering was a good example of direct democracy. It was also a

good

Quoted message said:

example of mob rule. As romantically attractive as such an event would

be,

Quoted message said:

it's unconscionable today. It would undo what the ACLU and many others

have

Quoted message said:

fought for 80 years to establish (Miranda, etc.)

" All you have to do

Quoted message said:

is air some 30-second ad spots introducing road-ragers to their future anal-rapist cellmates in
prison, where they will be serving out a 10-year sentence for vehicular manslaughter and
aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. I think they'll calm down one helluva lot. These fools
need to know that there *are* grave consequences for their actions.

Around here, we don't send our decent, law-abiding white folk to the bad prisons simply for a single
killing of a bike hippy. They get a manslaughter sentence to serve out with a$$holes like Ken Lay
and Andrew Fastow at some country club, like that federal pen (I forget where it is) that is
actually an old, converted college campus...

You missed the word 'men'.

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UclQa.48782$GL4.13122@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

"Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Truly the conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

In Canada we do not use the term MEN anymore. As a Nation we are supposed to NOT show a gender bias
and so everyone becomes a Person re: Police-person, Alder-person, Fire-person etc. It is all done in
an effort to make Canadian Persons of the male gender more Politically Correct..... Castrated Wimps.
***************************
"Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You missed the word 'men'.

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UclQa.48782$GL4.13122@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

"Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Truly the conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In Canada we do not use the term MEN anymore. As a Nation we are supposed

to

Quoted message said:

NOT show a gender bias and so everyone becomes a Person re: Police-person, Alder-person,
Fire-person etc. It is all done in an effort to make

Canadian

Quoted message said:

Persons of the male gender more Politically Correct..... Castrated Wimps.
***************************

Castrated Wimps? Sorry - but that's way to gender specific. Until your arbiters of correctness can
come up with a proper gender neutral replacement I suggest you refer to politically correct Canadian
men as denatured wimp-persons.

skip

[email hidden] (Seth Jayson) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

" All you have to do

Quoted message said:

is air some 30-second ad spots introducing road-ragers to their future anal-rapist cellmates in
prison, where they will be serving out a 10-year sentence for vehicular manslaughter and
aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. I think they'll calm down one helluva lot. These fools
need to know that there *are* grave consequences for their actions.

Around here, we don't send our decent, law-abiding white folk to the bad prisons simply for a
single killing of a bike hippy. They get a manslaughter sentence to serve out with a$$holes like
Ken Lay and Andrew Fastow at some country club, like that federal pen (I forget where it is) that
is actually an old, converted college campus.

Does anyone remember the campain done years ago by the motercycle groups...it went something like
this...."Hit a biker, go to jail". I'm not sure what happened to it, but I would like to bring it
back for us cyclists. Also the motercycle advocates are really quick to come to the aid of fallen
bikers. We, the cyclists, all cyclists should come together to fight the groups and individuals who
instigate the ill treatment towards cyclist on the roads. As a rider who has been hit on purpose
twice, I'm getting really irritated about the recent radio broadcasts urging motorists to hit
bikers....I'm reluctant to tell the story here on arbr, but I have a lovely story about a rider
fighting off a hostile car driver, it just warms my heart!... Freddy

One of our problems is that we have 'butts on bikes' as well as cyclists and the current politically
correct climate prevents an effective differentiation or even discussion.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...> Does
anyone remember the campain done years ago by the motercycle

Quoted message said:

groups...it went something like this...."Hit a biker, go to jail". I'm not sure what happened to
it, but I would like to bring it back for us cyclists. Also the motercycle advocates are really
quick to come to the aid of fallen bikers. We, the cyclists, all cyclists should come together
to fight the groups and individuals who instigate the ill treatment towards cyclist on the
roads. As a rider who has been hit on purpose twice, I'm getting really irritated about the
recent radio broadcasts urging motorists to hit bikers....I'm reluctant to tell the story here
on arbr, but I have a lovely story about a rider fighting off a hostile car driver, it just
warms my heart!... Freddy

skip said:

Castrated Wimps? Sorry - but that's way to gender specific. Until your arbiters of correctness can
come up with a proper gender neutral replacement I suggest you refer to politically correct
Canadian men as denatured wimp-persons.

Come now. Can't you people see how gender-specifically offensive you're being?

It's not persons. It's perchildren.

Boy for a guy who preaches tolerance, you don't seem to have much - condeming the "self-consumed
cell-phone-addicted SUV-driving" types might be considered sterotyping and a big setback for the
ACLU loving types. Since I am a cyclist who also owns a cell phone and an SUV, I take offense at
your attack. Too bad - I'm a loyal supporter of a local bike club who works solo at many youth
bike safety events because other club members just want to ride, not give something back. Would
you be one?

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jphQa.48235$GL4.12587@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just saw a wee note in the trikes list about the Cleveland Ohio

incident

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on Public radio re: a D.J. advocating the slaughter of cyclists "for

fun".

Quoted message said:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

to have a DJ on a Pulic Radio station advocating and or suggesting his listeners start taking
out cyclists is totally obscene.

This DJ and the Radio station employing him should be taken to a public square, tarred &
feathered and run out of Cleveland.

Tar & feathering was a good example of direct democracy. It was also a

good

Quoted message said:

example of mob rule. As romantically attractive as such an event would

be,

Quoted message said:

it's unconscionable today. It would undo what the ACLU and many others

have

Quoted message said:

fought for 80 years to establish (Miranda, etc.)

I take this kind of thing quite seriously, though not literally: I don't really believe that the
shock jocks specifically intend to incite genocide via mass serial vehicular manslaughter. I *do*
believe, however, that

they

Quoted message said:

are sending a clear message that intolerance is acceptible, and even an entitlement for
road-rage-infected self-consumed cell-phone-addicted SUV-driving victims of the "you can and
should have it all" mentality.

When

Quoted message said:

genocidal wish fulfillment via vehicular manslaughter starts to look like

a

Quoted message said:

good pressure relief valve, there is something gravely wrong with our society.

I'd like to see a PR campaign to scare the bejeezus out of road ragers who might actually think
they could get away with hit-and-run attempted vehicular homicide (against anyone, not just
cyclists). All you have to

do

Quoted message said:

is air some 30-second ad spots introducing road-ragers to their future anal-rapist cellmates
in prison, where they will be serving out a 10-year sentence for vehicular manslaughter and
aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. I think they'll calm down one helluva lot. These
fools need to

know

Quoted message said:

that there *are* grave consequences for their actions. The shock jocks aren't going to remind them
of this unpleasant fact.

Barry

"Pieter Litchfield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Boy for a guy who preaches tolerance, you don't seem to have much - condeming the "self-consumed
cell-phone-addicted SUV-driving" types might

be

Quoted message said:

considered sterotyping and a big setback for the ACLU loving types. Since

I

Quoted message said:

am a cyclist who also owns a cell phone and an SUV, I take offense at your attack.

Are you self-consumed? No? Then you're not being attacked. Fuhgeddaboutit.

Quoted message said:

Too bad - I'm a loyal supporter of a local bike club who works solo at many youth bike safety
events because other club members just want to ride, not give something back. Would you be one?

Oh, well, I don't know how Holy I need to be to join your l33t klub; but I did build up about a
half-dozen bikes and donated them to charities, including a local orphanage. Does that rate in your
PC pissing contest?

Barry

Quoted message said:

I'm reluctant to tell the story here on arbr, but I have a lovely story about a rider fighting off
a hostile car driver, it just warms my heart!...

Ah, go one, Freddy. You *know* you want to...

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Quoted message said:

but I did build up about a half-dozen bikes and donated them to charities, including a local
orphanage. Does that rate in your PC pissing contest?

I also have given a number of nice bikes to a charity in our city (Hope Now for Youth) (the charity,
not the city). This allows me an excuse to buy that cool old bike at the yard sale that is too good
to pass up but that I don't need. Don't tell the IRS where I got it. I participate, through WOW-Jam,
with some more old farts in having periodic free bike repairs for kids in a very bad area of town.
It is fun, it is giving back a lil, and I enjoy the banter with a buncha gear-heads like myself.
Plus I get to show off my specialized tools "Hey.. don't use vice-grips on that, use this cool tool
that is designed to do that one solitary little job and go back in the box for another year". The
kids are fun. The hardest thing is to convince them to not tighten the nuts and bolts SO TIGHT! They
ruin them alla time. Strip axles, etc. I mean, WE do the work, but try to teach them as we go, cuz
you know they are gonna dig out the crescent wrench next Saturday. As one of my childhood mentors
taught me, "Tighten it as far as it will go, then another half a turn, but don't strip the threads".
Disclaimer: Don't try this at home. This act was performed by a professional on a closed course.