Drivetrain Replacement??

MH said:

Hello All! I am new to the group but no stranger to cycling.

That may be but you are certainly a stranger to maintenance. You don't need to replace your
drivetrain, you need to replace your cassette, your chain and your chainrings. You can defer these
purchases until something breaks or otherwise ceases to work; but broken teeth would make me want to
do it now.

Quoted message said:

I have a MTB that will soon be in need of a drivetrain replacement. The bike still rides and
shifts perfectly but there is some major wear on both the chainrings and on the rear casette. This
wear is beyond sharkfinning and has gone onto actual broken teeth.

I have but a few questions. Firstly should i just keep riding until i start to see symptoms of
overworn sprockets? As in I currently have no shifting/skipping issues in spite of the obviously
damaged teeth and excessive wear. Instead the bike still rides well. I'm mostly conecrned about
getting stuck somewhere if a catastrophic failure were to occour, not experiencing anything
firsthand so far, what would this entail?

Also the shifting gear is Shimano Deore series but the chainrings and cassette are manufactured by
Suntour. The front is suntour CR 210 41/32/22 In the rear is a Suntour "powerflo"
11-13-14-17-21-24-28-32

The chain is simply marked "IG"

What equipment can/should I use to replace my existing setup? Can I choose different manufacturers
or am i stuck with the Suntour components?

It likely won't be easy to find Suntour cassettes as they never made them, only freewheels. You
may find chainrings with that name on them, but other makes will work just as well. Just match the
bolt circle.

Your chain is from Shimano. Readily available, but I like SRAM better.

Quoted message said:

My last question involves sourcing these parts, I'm in Canada and would like to mail order if it
saves me money, but don't know of and online retailer of these components.

Online sources are numerous. Just use Google or the equivalent. But don't until you check your local
bike shops. They don't charge shipping and you are not looking for anything exotic.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for any help!

Good luck with your bike. One last bit of advice: don't post anonymously.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

I would like to apoligize for my misuse of bicycle nomenclature as Ted has graciously pointed out.

I misunderstood the three components "Chain ring(s), chain and rear freewheel/cassette" as being the
drivetrain. I will henceforth refer to them by their respective names.

you say: > It likely won't be easy to find Suntour cassettes as they never made

Quoted message said:

them, only freewheels

So can I assume then that I need to find a freewheel and NOT a cassette that has the same numbered
gears, or can I use a shimano or other so long as the numbering is the same. What i am asking is
where is the common denominator? I understand that there are different tools to fit diferent
freewheels to remove them, but is this a function of how they attach or just a "key" needed to
remove a freewheel, once off i can then add on another brand as they will or will not fit??

you say: >>You may find chainrings with that name on them,

Quoted message said:

but other makes will work just as well. Just match the bolt circle.

Are there standard size(s) or procedure to measuring the circle? I've noticed that on the existing
set they are not bolted on but riveted, can I assume this is similar to auto mechanics where the
factory rivets, the aftermarket drills out these rivets then adds bolts where the rivets used to be?

I appreciate your assistance in this matter. I do intend on shopping at my LBS but so far the
pricing of these components seems quite high for something that is a regular maintenence item. As I
recieved this bike recently in as is condition, I am interested in spending money where it matters
but don't want to pay more for the three items than the whole bike.

Lastly I like to do my own maintenence and I find that the shops i've been to either do not wish to
take out time to help out a "parts only" buyer or they only carry one brand of the said parts. Sure
I can find a better shop, but i felt the collective wisdom of this group would go farther to help me
select good componentry without too much sales wizardry involved.

Thanks again for the help.

The "not so anonymous" Mike from Canada. 😉

"Ted Bennett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"MH" <[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip> Relevant quotes inline.

"MH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

The source of all knowledge (almost) www.sheldonbrown.com has many technical articles, a pointer
to the faq which probably answers questions you haven't even imagined yet.

Harris cyclery also sells many parts, so you can get an idea what's available and what it costs
in the USA.

Lots of other excellent resources, you can GOOGLE for "bicycle repair" or GOOGLE GROUPS for
previously posted articles.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike still rides and shifts perfectly

That's more than a lot of new drivetrains manage to do :-)

Now to embarass myself with OTTOMH responses to your questions.:-)

Quoted message said:

but there is some major wear on both the chainrings and on the rear casette. This wear is beyond
sharkfinning and has gone onto actual broken teeth.

Be aware that some modern chainrings appear to have broken teeth. These help with shifting.
OTTOMH Not sure if some cogs also have this "feature." I seem to recall that some do. Probably
covered at SB or in the faq.

Quoted message said:

Firstly should i just keep riding until i start to see symptoms

Depends. Worn teeth can prematurely wear out a new chain and vice versa. Things usually wear
together. I tend to change my chain before it's excessively worn (see SB or the faq on measuring)
to extend the life of everything else.

I'd be inclined to measure the chain now. If it's already worn out, then the other parts are
probably worn to match, so you may as well keep riding as long as you aren't having chain-skip or
other problems. Then replace the freewheel (or cassette) and chain, and if necessary the
chainring(s) which are worn out. Or the whole crankset if it's more cost-effective, or the cranks
are damaged.

Roloff (?spelling) has a tool to measure cog wear. Every LBS I've asked has heard of it.
None use it.

Quoted message said:

about getting stuck somewhere if a catastrophic failure were to occour,

The only catastrophic failure which seems likely is a broken chain. Some people carry a chain
tool and perhaps some extra links and/or a PowerLink or equivalent (SRAM chains come with a Power
Link so you don't need a chain tool to install / remove them, except that you probably need one
to shorten the chain).

Depending on your usage, there are far more likely failures
about which to worry. Most involve tires or spokes or cables. :-)

Quoted message said:

In the rear is a Suntour "powerflo" 11-13-14-17-21-24-28-32

That sounds unusual for a Suntour freewheel - an 8-speed wide-range. OTTOMH Sachs had some 8
speed freewheels a few years ago. So this may be a freehub / cassette. Which requires a different
tool from a Suntour freewheel.

When you take your bike to the LBS, they'll see what you have and advise you accordingly. If you
need a Suntour freewheel remover and live close by, I have one which I no longer need (that bike
was stolen :-().

Depending on how you use and maintain your bike, these may not need to be replaced all that
often. I replace my chain (roadbike) every 3000-4000 km, and (touch wood) am probably due for a
new cassette at 20,000 km. So it may be worth paying them to replace the cassette, rather than
buying rarely-needed tools. YMMV.

SRAM makes chain replacement / removal trivial, although you'll need a chain tool if you need to
shorten the chain. See SB or the faq for determining length (also Park Tools website).

Quoted message said:

The chain is simply marked "IG"

Shimano. Many people like the SRAM chains, with the PowerLink. OTTOMH The 8 speed version costs
about $16 at MEC.

Quoted message said:

different manufacturers or am i stuck with the Suntour components?

Don't know what freehub you have (I believe freewheels are mostly interchangeable, but yours
sounds like a cassette). Probably can use a Shimano ATB cassette, OTTOMH Shimano LX with similar
cogs costs about $60.

Chainrings have to match the bolt pattern on the spider. I believe SB or the faq describe how to
measure this. It's probably a compact drive crankset, which I believe is a standard.

Some low-end cranksets have riveted chainrings rather than bolts. Again, the entire crankset
can cost less than a single top-quality chainring. If they're bolted on, you can probably have
just the worn chainring replaced. But confirm that those missing / broken teeth aren't part of
the design.

hth.

Quoted message said:

, I'm in Canada and would like to mail order if it saves me money,

Take an old man's advice. Sometimes "saving money" doesn't. From your questions, I suspect this
is one such instance.

Take this to the LBS of your choice, have someone who has a clue look at it. If you're near a
Mountain Equipment Co-op, some of them sell chainrings and cassettes and tools and such. If you
aren't sure what you need and what to do once it arrives, you're probably better off paying
someone who has the tools and the experience to do the work. If they explain what they're doing
and why, you'll know next time.

(cassette - $50. Chain - $16. education - priceless)

MH wrote: <snip>

Quoted message said:

So can I assume then that I need to find a freewheel and NOT a cassette that has the same numbered
gears, or can I use a shimano or other so long as the numbering is the same. What i am asking is
where is the common denominator? I understand that there are different tools to fit diferent
freewheels to remove them, but is this a function of how they attach or just a "key" needed to
remove a freewheel, once off i can then add on another brand as they will or will not fit??

Go with Shimano since you already have their shifters. As for gearing, it depends what you need
and/or want. Stick with the same if the biggest and smallest cogs were sufficient for you over the
terrain you ride. If you need a bit more to get you up long and/or steep grades, you'll want a
larger big cog. If you have no problems with grades and want more speed, see if you can find one
with a faster (smaller) small cog. In either of the last two cases, make sure your derailleurs can
handle the spreads between the biggest and smallest cogs. Derailleurs have limitations. (If it's
confusing, take it to your local bike shop and let them help you figure it out.)

Suntour used at least two different tools for their freewheels. I don't recommend buying a Suntour
tool unless you can find more Suntour freewheels to go through. Your local bike shop should have one
and may even remove your old freewheel and install a new one (they spin right on) if you buy from
them; if they charge you, it will be nominal and less than the tool. If you ignore that advice and
manage to find the right Suntour tool, you'll also need a vise (or hand vise) and maybe a friend to
help untorque it -- especially if it's been on a while. Don't push down with your weight (just turn
like a @&$*@*&#@) or you may untrue your wheel.

Quoted message said:

you say: >>You may find chainrings with that name on them,

Quoted message said:

but other makes will work just as well. Just match the bolt circle.

Are there standard size(s) or procedure to measuring the circle? I've noticed that on the
existing set they are not bolted on but riveted, can I assume this is similar to auto mechanics
where the factory rivets, the aftermarket drills out these rivets then adds bolts where the
rivets used to be?

Bolt circle diameter (BCD) varies but they're mostly standard sizes. LBS can help more since they
can actually see what you have.

But there's one BIG problem: Riveted rings are trash, and so are the cranks they're on. You can
re-rivet rings, but my guess is the arms aren't tapped for screws. You shouldn't run a nut behind a
chainring even if you can fit one back there.

I'd say get a new crank -- it'll have fresh chainrings on it anyway. If you do that, you should,
and probably will have to, replace the bottom bracket, too. I'm wary because, in my experience,
bikes with rivets instead of bolts are made to be dispensible rather than repairable/replaceable
and their bottom brackets are not meant to be replaced (which can make finding a new crankset a
real pain in the...).

Quoted message said:

I appreciate your assistance in this matter. I do intend on shopping at my LBS but so far the
pricing of these components seems quite high for something that is a regular maintenence item. As
I recieved this bike recently in as is condition, I am interested in spending money where it
matters but don't want to pay more for the three items than the whole bike.

I know you don't wanna hear this, but you'll probably end up spending a LOT more on it than it cost
you. I suggest doing some accounting before you get too carried away. From what you've said, I think
it'll be more cost-effective to hold off and save for a new or better bike.

Quoted message said:

Lastly I like to do my own maintenence and I find that the shops i've been to either do not wish
to take out time to help out a "parts only" buyer or they only carry one brand of the said parts.
Sure I can find a better shop, but i felt the collective wisdom of this group would go farther to
help me select good componentry without too much sales wizardry involved.

You just hit a raw nerve. It isn't sales wizadry, it's business survival. They don't make anything
for dispensing their professional know-how, other than the sale of parts (which you don't want to
pay much for) and a little goodwill. Call your local auto mechanic and see if he'll explain
step-by-step how to overhaul a carb for free; or call a plumber and ask him to explain how to do
some plumbing job in your house and sell you the parts as cheap as possible so you don't have to pay
him to do it for you. I think it's the same thing.

You'll still get plenty of help from this group (I've just given you some), but don't knock the guys
at the LBS who just want to pay their bills and stay in business.

Hi, Mike, before you give up on your freewheel, you may want to check and see if those teeth are
_really_ broken, or if they were made that way to facilitate shifting.

Lewis.

****************************************

"MH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hello All! I am new to the group but no stranger to cycling.

I have a MTB that will soon be in need of a drivetrain replacement. The bike still rides and
shifts perfectly but there is some major wear on both the chainrings and on the rear casette. This
wear is beyond sharkfinning and has gone onto actual broken teeth.

I have but a few questions. Firstly should i just keep riding until i start to see symptoms of
overworn sprockets? As in I currently have no shifting/skipping issues in spite of the obviously
damaged teeth and excessive wear. Instead the bike still rides well. I'm mostly conecrned about
getting stuck somewhere if a catastrophic failure were to occour, not experiencing anything
firsthand so far, what would this entail?

Also the shifting gear is Shimano Deore series but the chainrings and cassette are manufactured by
Suntour. The front is suntour CR 210 41/32/22 In the rear is a Suntour "powerflo"
11-13-14-17-21-24-28-32

The chain is simply marked "IG"

What equipment can/should I use to replace my existing setup? Can I choose different manufacturers
or am i stuck with the Suntour components?

My last question involves sourcing these parts, I'm in Canada and would like to mail order if it
saves me money, but don't know of and online retailer of these components.

Thanks for any help!

M.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Good luck with your bike. One last bit of advice: don't post anonymously.

<snip>

Yes, then every wack job in the world who doesn't agree with you can harass you directly, rather
than on an easily-ignored usenet group.

BTW, how do I know you aren't posting under a pseudonym? The idea that just because someone supplies
a believeable first and last name here means that it IS their name is a load of [censored].

AppKiller (not my real name)

RE/

Quoted message said:

Yes, then every wack job in the world who doesn't agree with you can harass you directly, rather
than on an easily-ignored usenet group.

Not to mention all the kind offers you'll get from now until forever for paying off your mortgage,
finding work at home, enlarging your private parts,

-----------------------
PeteCresswell

cyclist101 said:

cranks they're on. You can re-rivet rings, but my guess is the arms aren't tapped for screws. You
shouldn't run a nut behind a chainring even if you can fit one back there.

The non-riveted cranksets I've seen use special crankset bolts and nuts as far as I can tell, not a
threaded arm.

Quoted message said:

I'd say get a new crank -- it'll have fresh chainrings on it anyway. If you do that, you should,
and probably will have to, replace the bottom bracket, too. I'm wary because, in my experience,
bikes with rivets instead of bolts are made to be dispensible rather than repairable/replaceable
and their bottom brackets are not meant to be replaced (which can make finding a new crankset a
real pain in the...).

It is worth replacing the whole crankset, and while you're in there, the bottom bracket.

My 97 GT Outback (before GT was gobbled and then re-gobbled into a department-store-bike-company)
came with a Suntour riveted crank. When I wore it out, my LBS had no problem changing the crankset,
and gave me the option of doing so without changing the bottom bracket, though I chose to do both at
the same time.

Of course, now I'm afraid to plow this nice pretty Deore crankset into logs, where I didn't care
about the old Suntour...

Quoted message said:

I know you don't wanna hear this, but you'll probably end up spending a LOT more on it than it
cost you. I suggest doing some accounting before you get too carried away. From what you've said,
I think it'll be more cost-effective to hold off and save for a new or better bike.

Trouble is, then, what to do with the old bike? You can't bring yourself to dump it, and it's not
worth anything to sell; you still end up fixing it.

Quoted message said:

You just hit a raw nerve. It isn't sales wizadry, it's business survival. They don't make anything
for dispensing their professional know-how, other than the sale of parts (which you don't want to
pay much for) and a

Quoted message said:

You'll still get plenty of help from this group (I've just given you some), but don't knock the
guys at the LBS who just want to pay their bills and stay in business.

You'd be amazed how the LBS will help you if you build a proper relationship with them. I began my
relationship with my LBS when I bought my GT, and through cultivating that relationship, they will
now happily detail procedures for me, identify problems, and choose the best parts for me.

I walked in with a wheel from a salvaged cheapo no-name bike asking for advice on removing the
freewheel, he just removed it for me, sold me a new one at a price I wouldn't be able to beat
online, and didn't charge anything for his time...then he gave me tips for putting the new one on,
greasing the bearings, and aligning the axle which I had thrown out of whack in my attempts to
remove the freewheel....

--
Rick Onanian