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Dogs again

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
7 June 2005
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10 June 2005
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Dave Fawthrop
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  1. <rant>
    I spent last Saturday and Sunday on Rombalds/Ilkley Moor (northern bit)
    Looking for some of the lesser known of the 250 Cup and Ring Stones there.

    This bit has a notice at every entry point "All dogs to be kept on a short
    lead from March to July, because of ground nesting birds and livestock.

    I was off the path, it is Open Access, by quite away, and half a dozen
    sheep passed me at a high rate of knots followed be a small brown terrier
    type dog. No sign of an owner, except a distant whistle. I stuck
    around till the dog showed me who its owner was. I was sitting there as
    if butter would not melt in its mouth.

    So I tore a strip off the owner, telling him that the dog deserved to be
    shot, because I had seen it sheep worrying, and that he should have it on a
    short lead because of the notices. He was most put out :-) but left the
    dog running free. It least I made his day out less pleasant, nothing else
    I could do :-(

    Dog owners like him, who disobey clear notices, and care nothing for
    domestic or wild animals or birds, so long as their darling pooches can
    play, give all walkers a bad name.
    </rant>

    --
    Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
    Beware of anyone posting X-No-Archive yes,
    they must have something to hide or something to be ashamed of.
    Your task, should you wish to accept it, is to determine *what*.

  2. Dave Fawthrop said:

    <rant>

    Quoted message said:

    So I tore a strip off the owner, telling him that the dog deserved to be
    shot, because I had seen it sheep worrying, and that he should have it on a
    short lead because of the notices. He was most put out :-) but left the
    dog running free. It least I made his day out less pleasant, nothing else
    I could do :-(

    Dog owners like him, who disobey clear notices, and care nothing for
    domestic or wild animals or birds, so long as their darling pooches can
    play, give all walkers a bad name.
    </rant>

    Good for you. Several years ago gave a lecturette to some folk whose
    golden lab type beast was running about all over the place on prime
    sheep and lapwing country in May on the descent from Pen-y-ghent. A
    few hundered yards on whilst sheltering unseen behind a stone wall I
    overheard them calling me an idiot as they conversed.
    --
    Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

  3. "Dave Fawthrop" wrote ...

    Quoted message said:

    <rant>
    I spent last Saturday and Sunday on Rombalds/Ilkley Moor (northern bit)
    Looking for some of the lesser known of the 250 Cup and Ring Stones there.

    This bit has a notice at every entry point "All dogs to be kept on a short
    lead from March to July, because of ground nesting birds and livestock.

    I was off the path, it is Open Access, by quite away, and half a dozen
    sheep passed me at a high rate of knots followed be a small brown terrier
    type dog. No sign of an owner, except a distant whistle. I stuck
    around till the dog showed me who its owner was. I was sitting there as
    if butter would not melt in its mouth.

    So I tore a strip off the owner, telling him that the dog deserved to be
    shot, because I had seen it sheep worrying, and that he should have it on
    a
    short lead because of the notices. He was most put out :-) but left the
    dog running free. It least I made his day out less pleasant, nothing
    else
    I could do :-(

    Dog owners like him, who disobey clear notices, and care nothing for
    domestic or wild animals or birds, so long as their darling pooches can
    play, give all walkers a bad name.
    </rant>


    Last night when we got back late from the theatre there was a message on our
    answerphone from the Swan Sanctuary that is next to our allotments to say
    yesterday evening they had seen 3 separate lots of people on our allotments
    with their dogs running loose across the plots and amongst the plants. They
    had asked them to move off the plots but they these people didn't like being
    asked " do you think what you are letting your dog do is fair".
    All because a gate had been left unlocked by a Council contractor.
    In the morning light we find two of our rows of peas have had the supporting
    poles broken and dog prints and digging everywhere.
    One of these "dog lovers" has been told numerous times but ignores us all.

    Some people just do not care about anyone but themselves and rules they
    don't like don't apply to them, but that's the same with the driving
    standards nowadays.

    --
    Regards
    Bob
    In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

  4. Dave Fawthrop said:

    It least I made his day out less pleasant, nothing else
    I could do :-(

    You could have smacked him, Dave.
    --
    R
    o
    o
    n
    e
    y

    "I always knew the entire Green party were nutters" - Ken Livingstone

  5. On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:33:29 +0100, Rooney <[email hidden]> wrote:

    | On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 15:39:35 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
    | <[email hidden]> wrote:
    |
    | > It least I made his day out less pleasant, nothing else
    | >I could do :-(
    |
    | You could have smacked him, Dave.

    Words are much more effective.

    --
    Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
    Beware of anyone posting X-No-Archive yes,
    they must have something to hide or something to be ashamed of.
    Your task, should you wish to accept it, is to determine *what*.

  6. I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
    from Dave Fawthrop contained the following:

    Quoted message said:

    | You could have smacked him, Dave.

    Words are much more effective.

    " He was most put out :-) but left the
    dog running free."

    Doesn't sound like it.

    Much as you may feel like having a go at an irresponsible dog owner, I
    wouldn't recommend it. Any one stupid enough to allow their dog to
    chase sheep is unlikely to appreciate being told off by a complete
    stranger and then there is your own physical safety to worry about.

    A better strategy might be to tactfully point out the dangers to both
    the sheep and their dog (the danger of being shot).

    --
    Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
    It's only Usenet, no one dies.
    My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
    Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

  7. On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:18:56 +0100, Geoff Berrow <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    | I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
    | from Dave Fawthrop contained the following:
    |
    | >| You could have smacked him, Dave.
    | >
    | >Words are much more effective.
    |
    | " He was most put out :-) but left the
    | dog running free."
    |
    | Doesn't sound like it.
    |
    | Much as you may feel like having a go at an irresponsible dog owner, I
    | wouldn't recommend it. Any one stupid enough to allow their dog to
    | chase sheep is unlikely to appreciate being told off by a complete
    | stranger and then there is your own physical safety to worry about.

    People nowadays are IMO much too risk averse :-(
    It is a wonder they walk on the hills which is much more risky.
    I still have a bruised hip from slipping on some steep mud.

    --
    Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
    Beware of anyone posting X-No-Archive yes,
    they must have something to hide or something to be ashamed of.
    Your task, should you wish to accept it, is to determine *what*.

  8. On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:22:31 +0100, Bootlaces <[email hidden]> wrote:

    | On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 15:39:35 +0100
    | in <news:[email hidden]>
    | Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]> wrote :
    |
    | > I spent last Saturday and Sunday on Rombalds/Ilkley Moor (northern bit)
    | > Looking for some of the lesser known of the 250 Cup and Ring Stones there.
    |
    | More importantly(?) - did you find them?

    Yes I found about 20 of them with my GPS, and 1 meter National Grid
    references surveyed by English Heritage. Without the GPS finding one rock
    in a featureless moor is almost impossible.

    | What heinous sin(s) would you have me accused of? <g>

    Messing up threads on Google groups.

    --
    Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
    Beware of anyone posting X-No-Archive yes,
    they must have something to hide or something to be ashamed of.
    Your task, should you wish to accept it, is to determine *what*.

  9. It is said that most dog owners are resposible citizens but I would
    disagree. As a runner I find that probably 50% of dog owners have no
    control over their pet. They let their dogs chase me, allow them to
    growl at me, allow them to snap at my heels and even allow them to jump
    up on me. They shout at their dogs who just ignore their owners. Some
    owners even think it is funny that their dogs act in this way. In one
    instance a woman told me if I didn't run the dog wont go for me.

    In saying this there are a few and only a few who go out of their way
    to control their dog when they see me coming and I acknowledge this
    fact.

    On the hills at this time of year I don't like seeing dogs running wild
    as they are disturbing the ground nesting birds who in Scotland, due to
    the weather system, only get one chance to nest.

    I think it would be an impossible task to educate these irresponsible
    dog owners as they can't see what their pets are doing wrong. They
    think all their actions are normal and can't see beyong their dog.

    I once owned a dog but I am now very apprehensive when approaching dogs
    and in fact getting to the stage that I don't like them.

    Sorry responsible dog owners.

    www.caledoniahilltreks.com

  10. Lindsay said:

    It is said that most dog owners are resposible citizens but I would
    disagree. As a runner I find that probably 50% of dog owners have no
    control over their pet. They let their dogs chase me, allow them to
    growl at me, allow them to snap at my heels and even allow them to jump
    up on me. They shout at their dogs who just ignore their owners. Some
    owners even think it is funny that their dogs act in this way. In one
    instance a woman told me if I didn't run the dog wont go for me.

    Snap.

    Quoted message said:

    In saying this there are a few and only a few who go out of their way
    to control their dog when they see me coming and I acknowledge this
    fact.

    Snap.

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    I once owned a dog but I am now very apprehensive when approaching dogs
    and in fact getting to the stage that I don't like them.

    Snap!

    Quoted message said:

    Sorry responsible dog owners.

    Responsible dog owners understand the problem.

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

  11. "Dave Fawthrop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    <rant>
    I spent last Saturday and Sunday on Rombalds/Ilkley Moor (northern bit)
    Looking for some of the lesser known of the 250 Cup and Ring Stones there.


    There's a relevant and very interesting essay 'The Sound of Kindness' by
    Vicki Hearne in her book 'Adam's Task.' Short version: dog owners who don't
    train their dogs (iu the name of letting them be 'natural' or in the name of
    'kindness'😉 are cruel and irresponsible. But all the posters here already
    know that....

  12. "John Goldfine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    There's a relevant and very interesting essay 'The Sound of Kindness'
    by


    Vicki Hearne in her book 'Adam's Task.' Short version: dog owners who
    don't train their dogs (iu the name of letting them be 'natural' or in the
    name of 'kindness'😉 are cruel and irresponsible. But all the posters here
    already know that....


    Of course, it's not just walkers that get a bad name--it's dog owners too,
    not all of whom (ahem!) are jerks. I think of the gentleman I met two weeks
    ago at Roulston Scar on the Cleveland Way, with his lurcher, his Bedlington
    terrier, and his setter--all enjoying themselves, none straying more than a
    few feet from the path, everyone keeping an eye on the boss.

    Quoted message said:
  13. Lindsay <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    It is said that most dog owners are resposible citizens but I would
    disagree. As a runner I find that probably 50% of dog owners have no
    control over their pet. They let their dogs chase me, allow them to
    growl at me, allow them to snap at my heels and even allow them to jump
    up on me.

    Probably the dogs are thinking like I do:-

    "Why is that man running? Is he chasing some kind of prey?
    No sign of any prey, or even a ball or a stick.
    Perhaps he is my prey? I'd better start chasing him".
    --
    Gordon Harris

  14. thanks Gordon - hope I don't meet you when I'm out running. If I do
    I'll recognise you when you start barking.

    www.caledoniahilltreks.com

  15. "Dave Fawthrop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    <rant>

    Quoted message said:

    This bit has a notice at every entry point "All dogs to be kept on a short
    lead from March to July, because of ground nesting birds and livestock.

    Thankfully we no longer have to put up with this "Dogs must be kept on a
    lead" [censored] any longer in Scotland, the wording must now be "Under close
    control"

    As to the dangers to ground nesting birds. There is no great problem here,
    firstly, ground nesting birds do not nest in places regularly frequented by
    dogs, so we are talking about rare occasions when a dog passes close by an
    active nest, secondly, these nests are very difficult to locate and the
    birds act as fantastic decoys, your average pooch will never get close to
    its eggs or young, if it was that easy, local foxes would plunder every
    single nest! The nesting birds are in no more danger from the dogs as they
    are from you accidentally stepping on its nest!

    As to livestock, it is highly dangerous to go anywhere near cattle while
    tied to a dog, the cattle are very likely to attack the dog, and if that dog
    is tied to its owner the cattle will more than likely trample the owner to
    get to the dog, if the dog is loose, the dog gets away and its owner enjoys
    the spectacle!

    Quoted message said:

    I was off the path, it is Open Access, by quite away, and half a dozen
    sheep passed me at a high rate of knots

    Since they stopped dipping sheep a few years back, sheep have turned into
    massive Tick carriers, and are some part to do with the recent huge increase
    in Tick numbers. Currently their is much concern in the Grouse industry
    about the amount of young grouse dying with a disease passed from sheep to
    birds via Ticks. So maybe your well meaning but naive concerns should be
    aimed elsewhere than at people with dogs!

    Quoted message said:

    followed be a small brown terrier
    type dog. No sign of an owner, except a distant whistle. I stuck
    around till the dog showed me who its owner was. I was sitting there as
    if butter would not melt in its mouth.

    So I tore a strip off the owner, telling him that the dog deserved to be
    shot,
    because I had seen it sheep worrying, and that he should have it on a
    short lead because of the notices. He was most put out :-) but left the
    dog running free. It least I made his day out less pleasant, nothing


    else

    Quoted message said:

    I could do :-(

    I met a couple of pratts like you once at Sourlies bothy, I arrived very
    late one Midge infested August evening with my dog, on entering the bothy I
    was confronted by two guests who took an instant dislike to my dog and
    demanded it was left outside, after a very heated argument the overfed one
    decided he was evicting me my dog and started to throw my stuff out of the
    door...... I don't know where the two of them went that night, maybe they
    had tents, didn't care really, me and the dog were very comfortable in the
    bothy by ourselves!

  16. I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from
    Stuart contained the following:

    Quoted message said:

    I met a couple of pratts like you once at Sourlies bothy, I arrived very
    late one Midge infested August evening with my dog, on entering the bothy I
    was confronted by two guests who took an instant dislike to my dog and
    demanded it was left outside, after a very heated argument the overfed one
    decided he was evicting me my dog and started to throw my stuff out of the
    door...... I don't know where the two of them went that night, maybe they
    had tents, didn't care really, me and the dog were very comfortable in the
    bothy by ourselves!

    Heh, nice one Stuart, you sound like a handy bloke to have around. :-)

    --
    Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
    It's only Usenet, no one dies.
    My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
    Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

  17. Stuart said:

    "Dave Fawthrop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    <rant>

    Quoted message said:

    This bit has a notice at every entry point "All dogs to be kept on a short
    lead from March to July, because of ground nesting birds and livestock.

    Thankfully we no longer have to put up with this "Dogs must be kept on a
    lead" [censored] any longer in Scotland, the wording must now be "Under close
    control"

    Actually, there's been no recent change to the law in Scotland in
    respect of dog control. The problem with the current situation -
    inherited form the Countryside (Scotland) Act 1967 - is in defining
    "close control". I know of one shepherd who carries around a laminated
    copy of the relevant legislation and has produced it as justification to
    the owners of at least two dogs he has shot. He considers "close
    control" to be no more than 3 feet away.

    druidh

  18. ..

    Quoted message said:


    Hmmm, I don't see how the fact that some farmers might neglect their
    animals means others should tolerate thirs being hassled by dogs.

    How does the fact that some farmers neglect their animals mean the
    animals should also have to tolerate dogs, then?

    --
    Nobby

    It's this business of "worry" and "hassle". When the farmer decides to
    gather his sheep for any reason, how does he do it? He sends his dogs in to
    round them up, yet we're often told that the mere presence of a dog in a
    field with livestock can justify shooting. I think you'll find that the
    farmer is only allowed to shoot a dog if it is worrying (attacking) sheep
    and then only if it is the only way to prevent it continuing. In a case in
    Scotland some years ago, the offending dog was a collie belonging to a
    neighbour, which came and sat down near the owner of the sheep, whereupon he
    shot it. There had been bad blood betwwen him and his neighbour in the past
    and he was successfully prosecuted, but by then of course, the dog was dead.

  19. "druidh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Stuart said:

    "Dave Fawthrop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    <rant>

    Quoted message said:

    This bit has a notice at every entry point "All dogs to be kept on a


    short

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lead from March to July, because of ground nesting birds and livestock.

    Thankfully we no longer have to put up with this "Dogs must be kept on a
    lead" [censored] any longer in Scotland, the wording must now be "Under close
    control"

    Actually, there's been no recent change to the law in Scotland in
    respect of dog control. The problem with the current situation -
    inherited form the Countryside (Scotland) Act 1967 - is in defining
    "close control". I know of one shepherd who carries around a laminated
    copy of the relevant legislation and has produced it as justification to
    the owners of at least two dogs he has shot. He considers "close
    control" to be no more than 3 feet away.

    This is totally unacceptable behaviour, and I urge you to pass any such
    information on to the police and the Procurator Fiscal. This shepherd is
    clearly not a suitable person to posses a gun licence.

    Dogs can only be shot as an absolute last resort, if the owner of the dog is
    present he/she must be given every chance to bring that dog under control,
    if the farmer shoots a dog just because it is more than 3 feet from its
    owner he is committing a criminal offence and needs to be delt with in the
    courts.

    Gun legislation is very very strict, and I cannot imagine any Chief
    Constable tolerating someone going out of his way to kill other peoples
    pets, and the fact that he is carrying around some "laminated legislation"
    to brandish at the owners of the dog he has just killed proves intent!

  20. On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:02:41 +0100, "Stuart" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Actually, there's been no recent change to the law in Scotland in
    respect of dog control. The problem with the current situation -
    inherited form the Countryside (Scotland) Act 1967 - is in defining
    "close control". I know of one shepherd who carries around a laminated
    copy of the relevant legislation and has produced it as justification to
    the owners of at least two dogs he has shot. He considers "close
    control" to be no more than 3 feet away.

    This is totally unacceptable behaviour, and I urge you to pass any such
    information on to the police and the Procurator Fiscal. This shepherd is
    clearly not a suitable person to posses a gun licence.

    Dogs can only be shot as an absolute last resort, if the owner of the dog is
    present he/she must be given every chance to bring that dog under control,
    if the farmer shoots a dog just because it is more than 3 feet from its
    owner he is committing a criminal offence and needs to be delt with in the
    courts.

    Gun legislation is very very strict, and I cannot imagine any Chief
    Constable tolerating someone going out of his way to kill other peoples
    pets, and the fact that he is carrying around some "laminated legislation"
    to brandish at the owners of the dog he has just killed proves intent!


    Hear hear. He sounds like a total nutter.

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

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