SRAM :(

Ride-A-Lot said:

Well, I got a letter from SRAM today:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/sramletter.jpg

It doesn't look like they are going to give me a new derailleur. They
said it went into the spokes. Yeh, after it broke the [censored] off the
damn hanger! I swear that was the second ride on it. The thing was
hanging off the bike for the five mile walk out banging into the
spokes as I walked. I just don't have the energy to make them
understand. Does this look like a result of banging into the spokes?

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2285.jpg
http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2286.jpg

They said they'll work with my LBS to get me an affordable
replacement. What does that mean? If it means cheap, as in "at
cost" then fine. Although, it doesn't matter because I have to get a
new one anyway since I have too much invested in the shifters.

Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

Assuming your LBS /is/ local (and you're on good terms with them), I'd have
gone there first. My experience has been that manufacturers are more
willing to work with their distributors than directly with...um, real
people. Helps to have someone run interference for you, at least initially.

Hope they make it right, or close enough... BS

Bill Sornson said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Well, I got a letter from SRAM today:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/sramletter.jpg

It doesn't look like they are going to give me a new derailleur. They
said it went into the spokes. Yeh, after it broke the [censored] off the
damn hanger! I swear that was the second ride on it. The thing was
hanging off the bike for the five mile walk out banging into the
spokes as I walked. I just don't have the energy to make them
understand. Does this look like a result of banging into the spokes?

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2285.jpg
http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2286.jpg

They said they'll work with my LBS to get me an affordable
replacement. What does that mean? If it means cheap, as in "at
cost" then fine. Although, it doesn't matter because I have to get a
new one anyway since I have too much invested in the shifters.

Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

Assuming your LBS /is/ local (and you're on good terms with them), I'd have
gone there first. My experience has been that manufacturers are more
willing to work with their distributors than directly with...um, real
people. Helps to have someone run interference for you, at least initially.

Hope they make it right, or close enough... BS

Around here all the LBS's are so busy fixing road bikes, they don't pay
much attention to the MTBers. That's why I usually do all the work
myself. The one that I usually go to is 30 minutes away. I could walk
in there once a week, they know who I am, they've been on my Website,
they've seen me out and about, and they'll still act like "who the hell
are you". LBS's here are big on teams. They come first. The one
closest to me (I'm going to name names now) is Danzisien and Quigley.
They are a Cherry Hill institution filled with the nastiest sales people
selling the most expensive [censored] you can find. Heck, they are catering
to Cherry Hill snobs who just want to look the part. There is one guy
in there I can have a converation with, but he gets yelled at for it.

*Sigh*. This is not a MTB friendly bike store area.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot said:

Bill Sornson said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Well, I got a letter from SRAM today:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/sramletter.jpg

It doesn't look like they are going to give me a new derailleur.
They said it went into the spokes. Yeh, after it broke the [censored]
off the damn hanger! I swear that was the second ride on it. The
thing was hanging off the bike for the five mile walk out banging
into the spokes as I walked. I just don't have the energy to make
them understand. Does this look like a result of banging into the
spokes?

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2285.jpg
http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2286.jpg

They said they'll work with my LBS to get me an affordable
replacement. What does that mean? If it means cheap, as in "at
cost" then fine. Although, it doesn't matter because I have to get a
new one anyway since I have too much invested in the shifters.

Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

Assuming your LBS /is/ local (and you're on good terms with them),
I'd have gone there first. My experience has been that
manufacturers are more willing to work with their distributors than
directly with...um, real people. Helps to have someone run
interference for you, at least initially.

Hope they make it right, or close enough... BS

Around here all the LBS's are so busy fixing road bikes, they don't
pay much attention to the MTBers. That's why I usually do all the
work myself. The one that I usually go to is 30 minutes away. I
could walk in there once a week, they know who I am, they've been on
my Website, they've seen me out and about, and they'll still act like
"who the hell are you". LBS's here are big on teams. They come
first. The one closest to me (I'm going to name names now) is
Danzisien and Quigley. They are a Cherry Hill institution filled with
the nastiest sales people selling the most expensive [censored] you can
find. Heck, they are catering to Cherry Hill snobs who just want to
look the part. There is one guy in there I can have a converation
with, but he gets yelled at for it.

*Sigh*. This is not a MTB friendly bike store area.

Ah, totally different situation then. My point was if you'd bought your
bike from a local shop AND/OR they sold you the derailleur, then the
"proper" first step is to return to where you bought it. Different deal if
you bought it on-line and installed it yourself, I suppose. (Still,
something like this would have me leaning toward boycotting the brand from
now on, IF they don't stand behind their product at least somewhat.)

'luck, B

Quoted message said:

Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

What caused the damage? We have "Derailurer Hanger Eater Sticks" on the
trails often around here, especially after windstorms. These [censored] jump
up and can bust up a drivetrain with surprising ease.

Another common cause for this is to have it in 1st gear and hit a drop - the
chain will fall into the spokes and snap the hanger right off. At least
this cause is preventable 😉

The solution for me has been to carry a spare hanger. The Derailurer Hanger
Eater Sticks can sense them and therefore avoid me now 😉

Despite pretty severe bending, it's unusual for me to see a derailurer which
can't be bent back into useable shape.

JohnH said:

Quoted message said:

Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

What caused the damage? We have "Derailurer Hanger Eater Sticks" on the
trails often around here, especially after windstorms. These [censored] jump
up and can bust up a drivetrain with surprising ease.

Another common cause for this is to have it in 1st gear and hit a drop - the
chain will fall into the spokes and snap the hanger right off. At least
this cause is preventable 😉

The solution for me has been to carry a spare hanger. The Derailurer Hanger
Eater Sticks can sense them and therefore avoid me now 😉

Despite pretty severe bending, it's unusual for me to see a derailurer which
can't be bent back into useable shape.

No sticks at all. The trail is all 3" - 4" round babyheads firmly
planted in the ground. Pretty much the whole trail is like this:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2269.jpg

They did not pop up and hit it. I was in the middle ring and about the
middle on the rear going up a rather steep uphill section. Again it's
pretty technical so I popped out of the saddle to get a bit more torque
from my legs and pop! That was it.

I just bought a Surly singulator which I plan to carry in my 'bak now so
that I can turn the FS into an SS to get me out of the woods.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot said:

JohnH said:

Quoted message said:

Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

What caused the damage? We have "Derailurer Hanger Eater Sticks" on
the trails often around here, especially after windstorms. These
[censored] jump up and can bust up a drivetrain with surprising ease.

Another common cause for this is to have it in 1st gear and hit a
drop - the chain will fall into the spokes and snap the hanger right
off. At least this cause is preventable 😉

The solution for me has been to carry a spare hanger. The
Derailurer Hanger Eater Sticks can sense them and therefore avoid me
now 😉 Despite pretty severe bending, it's unusual for me to see a
derailurer which can't be bent back into useable shape.

No sticks at all. The trail is all 3" - 4" round babyheads firmly
planted in the ground. Pretty much the whole trail is like this:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2269.jpg

They did not pop up and hit it. I was in the middle ring and about
the middle on the rear going up a rather steep uphill section. Again
it's pretty technical so I popped out of the saddle to get a bit more
torque from my legs and pop! That was it.

I just bought a Surly singulator which I plan to carry in my 'bak now
so that I can turn the FS into an SS to get me out of the woods.

I hate to be the retro-grouch here... I'm not even old enough to be one.
But the first mistake was the FS. Shifting isn't as static on them.

On a serious note, the standing up on the pedals caused the whole thing to
happen. Are you sure the derailleur broke off the hangar? How are you
sure? Which part actually broke off? FS's typically suffer from poor
shifting when the housing is too short or is put in a position where it has
lots of dynamic movement, causing ghost shifting.

Without knowing any more details, my first impression is that the limit
screws weren't set correctly, causing the chain to grind behind the
cassette. But I wasn't there... please enlighten me.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

JohnH said:

>Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

What caused the damage? We have "Derailurer Hanger Eater Sticks" on
the trails often around here, especially after windstorms. These
[censored] jump up and can bust up a drivetrain with surprising ease.

Another common cause for this is to have it in 1st gear and hit a
drop - the chain will fall into the spokes and snap the hanger right
off. At least this cause is preventable 😉

The solution for me has been to carry a spare hanger. The
Derailurer Hanger Eater Sticks can sense them and therefore avoid me
now 😉 Despite pretty severe bending, it's unusual for me to see a
derailurer which can't be bent back into useable shape.

No sticks at all. The trail is all 3" - 4" round babyheads firmly
planted in the ground. Pretty much the whole trail is like this:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2269.jpg

They did not pop up and hit it. I was in the middle ring and about
the middle on the rear going up a rather steep uphill section. Again
it's pretty technical so I popped out of the saddle to get a bit more
torque from my legs and pop! That was it.

I just bought a Surly singulator which I plan to carry in my 'bak now
so that I can turn the FS into an SS to get me out of the woods.

I hate to be the retro-grouch here... I'm not even old enough to be one.
But the first mistake was the FS. Shifting isn't as static on them.

On a serious note, the standing up on the pedals caused the whole thing to
happen. Are you sure the derailleur broke off the hangar? How are you
sure? Which part actually broke off? FS's typically suffer from poor
shifting when the housing is too short or is put in a position where it has
lots of dynamic movement, causing ghost shifting.

Take a look at the pics in the original post. It split at the bolt.
The bike was already in gear when I hit the climb. There was no skip,
rub, or ghost shift. It was in gear and running smooth. It had been
running smooth for the first 16 miles on the same terrain.

Quoted message said:

Without knowing any more details, my first impression is that the limit
screws weren't set correctly, causing the chain to grind behind the
cassette. But I wasn't there... please enlighten me.

I would have noticed that or there would have been some chain suck
prior. None of that happened. One of the guys in the club is 6'3 230
pounds and all muscle. He used to break Shimanos all the time at the
bolt before using breakaway bolts. He's the type who just muscles his
way through stuff. I'm not that strong (or maybe I just under estimate
myself).

Maybe I should just learn to ride my SS on trails like that.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot said:

Phil said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

JohnH wrote:

>> Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.
>
>
> What caused the damage? We have "Derailurer Hanger Eater Sticks"
> on the trails often around here, especially after windstorms. These
> [censored] jump up and can bust up a drivetrain with
> surprising ease. Another common cause for this is to have it in 1st
> gear and hit a
> drop - the chain will fall into the spokes and snap the hanger
> right off. At least this cause is preventable 😉
>
> The solution for me has been to carry a spare hanger. The
> Derailurer Hanger Eater Sticks can sense them and therefore avoid
> me now 😉 Despite pretty severe bending, it's unusual for me to
> see a derailurer which can't be bent back into useable shape.
>

No sticks at all. The trail is all 3" - 4" round babyheads firmly
planted in the ground. Pretty much the whole trail is like this:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2269.jpg

They did not pop up and hit it. I was in the middle ring and about
the middle on the rear going up a rather steep uphill section. Again
it's pretty technical so I popped out of the saddle to get a
bit more torque from my legs and pop! That was it.

I just bought a Surly singulator which I plan to carry in my 'bak
now so that I can turn the FS into an SS to get me out of the woods.

I hate to be the retro-grouch here... I'm not even old enough to be
one. But the first mistake was the FS. Shifting isn't as static on
them. On a serious note, the standing up on the pedals caused the whole
thing to happen. Are you sure the derailleur broke off the hangar? How
are you sure? Which part actually broke off? FS's typically
suffer from poor shifting when the housing is too short or is put in
a position where it has lots of dynamic movement, causing ghost
shifting.

Take a look at the pics in the original post. It split at the bolt.

My apologies! I totally clicked the first link and forgot about the other
two.

Quoted message said:

The bike was already in gear when I hit the climb. There was no skip,

I wasn't saying that you were shifting... I was saying that pedaling out the
saddle could have caused a ghost shift, but as you say, there was none.
After having looked at the pictures, it looks like a brittle fracture of the
metal. I'll submit these to rec.bicycles.tech and see what they say. I'm
as puzzled as you are.

Quoted message said:

rub, or ghost shift. It was in gear and running smooth. It had been
running smooth for the first 16 miles on the same terrain.

Quoted message said:

Without knowing any more details, my first impression is that the
limit screws weren't set correctly, causing the chain to grind
behind the cassette. But I wasn't there... please enlighten me.

I would have noticed that or there would have been some chain suck
prior. None of that happened. One of the guys in the club is 6'3 230
pounds and all muscle. He used to break Shimanos all the time at the
bolt before using breakaway bolts. He's the type who just muscles his
way through stuff. I'm not that strong (or maybe I just under
estimate myself).

He's having another problem, because no matter how strong or heavy a rider
is, a derailleur isn't under stress from the chain. The cassette takes the
full load of the rider's weight and power, and the derailleur only guides
the chain on near-frictionless pulleys, so no amount of rider torque could
directly cause a derailleur failure.

Sorry about assuming things as I did.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Sorry about assuming things as I did.

Not a problem. Thanks for your help. I would definately like to know
if my assumptions that the cooling process after molding went too fast.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

"Ride-A-Lot" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well, I got a letter from SRAM today:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/sramletter.jpg

It doesn't look like they are going to give me a new derailleur. They
said it went into the spokes. Yeh, after it broke the [censored] off the damn
hanger! I swear that was the second ride on it. The thing was hanging
off the bike for the five mile walk out banging into the spokes as I
walked. I just don't have the energy to make them understand. Does
this look like a result of banging into the spokes?

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2285.jpg
http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2286.jpg

They said they'll work with my LBS to get me an affordable replacement.
What does that mean? If it means cheap, as in "at cost" then fine.
Although, it doesn't matter because I have to get a new one anyway since
I have too much invested in the shifters.

Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

That just isn't right. When Jim used to have a SRAM group on his bike, he
used to ride the hell out of his derailleurs until they fell apart, then he
would do a little complaining at a bike show festival and they would replace
it free of charge even tho it was obviously well used. He managed to do it
twice before he sold the bike.

- CA-G

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

Carla A-G said:

"Ride-A-Lot" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well, I got a letter from SRAM today:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/sramletter.jpg

It doesn't look like they are going to give me a new derailleur. They
said it went into the spokes. Yeh, after it broke the [censored] off the damn
hanger! I swear that was the second ride on it. The thing was hanging
off the bike for the five mile walk out banging into the spokes as I
walked. I just don't have the energy to make them understand. Does
this look like a result of banging into the spokes?

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2285.jpg
http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2286.jpg

They said they'll work with my LBS to get me an affordable replacement.
What does that mean? If it means cheap, as in "at cost" then fine.
Although, it doesn't matter because I have to get a new one anyway since
I have too much invested in the shifters.

Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

That just isn't right. When Jim used to have a SRAM group on his bike, he
used to ride the hell out of his derailleurs until they fell apart, then he
would do a little complaining at a bike show festival and they would replace
it free of charge even tho it was obviously well used. He managed to do it
twice before he sold the bike.

- CA-G

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

Maybe I'll call the guy in the letter today and try to talk some sense
into him. It doesn't sound like he wants to talk to the "user" though.
It's like I'm being labeled a dumb bike rider who doesn't know
anything about the parts on his bike. What makes them think that a bike
shop knows better? My shop doesn't even test ride the thing when they
finish the work. How do you tell if it is shifting correctly while
clamped to a stand without any weight on it?

We have a local shop here run by a 60 year old woman who sells mostly
beach cruisers. I went in asking if they had any headsets, and she
said, "what is that?". Since the letter states "any" bike shop, maybe I
should let them talk to her since she must know better because she owns
a shop.

And so my frustration grows...

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Quoted message said:

Maybe I'll call the guy in the letter today and try to talk some sense
into him. It doesn't sound like he wants to talk to the "user"
though. It's like I'm being labeled a dumb bike rider who doesn't
know anything about the parts on his bike.

From a company's perspective, they go to a lot of trouble to set up a
dealership network to avoid getting such calls. This letter seems to be
"shooing" you into the proper support direction; this is something which
should be easily handled by a dealer.

I'm sorry if I'm coming in on this late, but where did you get the part -
and why aren't you dealing with them?

"JohnH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
|> Maybe I'll call the guy in the letter today and try to talk some sense
| > into him. It doesn't sound like he wants to talk to the "user"
| > though. It's like I'm being labeled a dumb bike rider who doesn't
| > know anything about the parts on his bike.
|
| From a company's perspective, they go to a lot of trouble to set up a
| dealership network to avoid getting such calls. This letter seems to be
| "shooing" you into the proper support direction; this is something which
| should be easily handled by a dealer.
|
| I'm sorry if I'm coming in on this late, but where did you get the part -
| and why aren't you dealing with them?

I'm a bit surprised by them doing this. In the past dealing with some
companies, we've submitted problems to warranty only to be rejected then to
have the customer contact the manufacturer directly and get satisfaction.
Much trouble and embarrassment would have been saved if they'd responded
more favorably when we were involved.

JohnH said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe I'll call the guy in the letter today and try to talk some sense
into him. It doesn't sound like he wants to talk to the "user"
though. It's like I'm being labeled a dumb bike rider who doesn't
know anything about the parts on his bike.

From a company's perspective, they go to a lot of trouble to set up a
dealership network to avoid getting such calls. This letter seems to be
"shooing" you into the proper support direction; this is something which
should be easily handled by a dealer.

I'm sorry if I'm coming in on this late, but where did you get the part -
and why aren't you dealing with them?

Pricepoint. Did you ever try calling them? I'd rather east the $60.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Nelson Binch said:

"JohnH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
|> Maybe I'll call the guy in the letter today and try to talk some sense
| > into him. It doesn't sound like he wants to talk to the "user"
| > though. It's like I'm being labeled a dumb bike rider who doesn't
| > know anything about the parts on his bike.
|
| From a company's perspective, they go to a lot of trouble to set up a
| dealership network to avoid getting such calls. This letter seems to be
| "shooing" you into the proper support direction; this is something which
| should be easily handled by a dealer.
|
| I'm sorry if I'm coming in on this late, but where did you get the part -
| and why aren't you dealing with them?

I'm a bit surprised by them doing this. In the past dealing with some
companies, we've submitted problems to warranty only to be rejected then to
have the customer contact the manufacturer directly and get satisfaction.
Much trouble and embarrassment would have been saved if they'd responded
more favorably when we were involved.

Well I got off the phone with the guy and he insists that the top
derailleur cage was rubbing against the cassette. This may have been
the case when I first set it up, but I am very careful about adjusting
that. I told him this. but again he said that things would work out
best for everyone if I go to the LBS. He didn't care if it was not
where the item was purchased. So, some day this week I'll bring the
letter to the LBS and see what happens.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot
And so my frustration grows...

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o>

I would call.... put your schmoozing hat on... tell him exactly what happened.
Like Carla said it didn't take much convincing for me to get two different reps on two different occasions to swap out my derailuer...
Maybe if you explain your situation about your local LBS. He might realize you are on your own and this is why you are taking this tact.
I am sure if you speak with them he will quickly realize you are not some Fred or Barney.

Good luck!

---> Jim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sorry if I'm coming in on this late, but where did you get the
part - and why aren't you dealing with them?

Pricepoint. Did you ever try calling them? I'd rather east the $60.

Lol - no, haven't needed to call them - but they're the ones who are
*supposed* to be supporting the part. Whatever works best for you; good
luck!

Ride-A-Lot said:

Well, I got a letter from SRAM today:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/sramletter.jpg

It doesn't look like they are going to give me a new derailleur. They
said it went into the spokes. Yeh, after it broke the [censored] off the damn
hanger! I swear that was the second ride on it. The thing was hanging
off the bike for the five mile walk out banging into the spokes as I
walked. I just don't have the energy to make them understand. Does
this look like a result of banging into the spokes?

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2285.jpg
http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2286.jpg

They said they'll work with my LBS to get me an affordable replacement.
What does that mean? If it means cheap, as in "at cost" then fine.
Although, it doesn't matter because I have to get a new one anyway since
I have too much invested in the shifters.

Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

You approach with the angry letter to the president may have rubbed them
the wrong way.
At my company we have a department that handles what we call Client
Services. When a client circumvents the process we have in place and
calls (or writes) the president for a CS issue without even trying the
appropriate channels, it annoys us. We still try and help them, but
sometimes this will make us reluctant to do anything extra.

Maybe a different approach will yield better results if it isn't too
late already.

Matt

MattB said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Well, I got a letter from SRAM today:

http://www.schnauzers.ws/sramletter.jpg

It doesn't look like they are going to give me a new derailleur. They
said it went into the spokes. Yeh, after it broke the [censored] off the
damn hanger! I swear that was the second ride on it. The thing was
hanging off the bike for the five mile walk out banging into the
spokes as I walked. I just don't have the energy to make them
understand. Does this look like a result of banging into the spokes?

http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2285.jpg
http://www.schnauzers.ws/public/images_upload/IMG_2286.jpg

They said they'll work with my LBS to get me an affordable
replacement. What does that mean? If it means cheap, as in "at cost"
then fine. Although, it doesn't matter because I have to get a new one
anyway since I have too much invested in the shifters.

Oh well, looks like a trip to the shop soon.

You approach with the angry letter to the president may have rubbed them
the wrong way.
At my company we have a department that handles what we call Client
Services. When a client circumvents the process we have in place and
calls (or writes) the president for a CS issue without even trying the
appropriate channels, it annoys us. We still try and help them, but
sometimes this will make us reluctant to do anything extra.

Maybe a different approach will yield better results if it isn't too
late already.

Matt

My letter was not angry at all. In fact I told him that I was a
dedicated SRAM user and that this incident would not change it. I just
wanted him to be aware there may be a quality control issue.

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