right hook

lokey said:

I was going north in a bike lane on a multilane city street. I stop at a
light - not a cross-street intersection but a plaza entrance on the west
side and a senior's complex entrance on the right but still controlled by
signal lights.

I am first at the intersection. A public transit mobility bus [not a
standard bus but one for people with mobility handicaps] pulls up beside me.
Then before the light changes the bus starts inching forward anticipating
the light change so that he is blocking the crosswalk and half his length
ahead of me when the light turns and he makes his right turn in front of me.

I'm pondering calling the Transit Service to make a complaint. Not too many
years ago a bus driver was convicted of causing the death of a cyclist.

--
'Nobody here gets out alive' -jim morrison

You should call. Last week, here in Delaware, a cyclist became a
quadriplegic because a car with trailer made a right turn in front of
him. You were stopped, he was not unfortunately.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

"lokey" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I'm pondering calling the Transit Service to make a complaint. Not too
many
years ago a bus driver was convicted of causing the death of a cyclist.

Definately complain, especially if you got the license plate number.

lokey said:

I'm pondering calling the Transit Service to make a complaint. Not too many
years ago a bus driver was convicted of causing the death of a cyclist.

Definitely complain and ask for a response on the actions they will
take to ensure this does not happen again.

In my experience, public agencies are pretty good about responding.
Private companies[1] don't make any response at all. I file police
reports on them now.

RFM
--
[1] Two incidents over the past three years that I've reported on:

* Right-hooked by the speeding driver of a Western Disposal (Boulder,
Colorado) trash truck. I bailed into the ditch to avoid death/maiming.
That one was *close*. My complaint to Western Disposal ended up
(apparently) in a black hole.

* Yellow Freight. I was in straight-through lane waiting for light, to
the left of the stripe seperating my lane from right-turn lane.
Right-turning tractor-trailer comes in behind me, swings wide for the
right turn and instead of waiting for me to get out of the way, the
driver just goes. I'm assertive and hold my place and the tire actually
bumps me before I slide myself into the car next to me. I filed a
police report on that one and I also complained to Yellow. No response
from Yellow, and the police told me that truck was registered in
Illinois and there wasn't much they could do.

"lokey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was going north in a bike lane on a multilane city street. I stop at a
light - not a cross-street intersection but a plaza entrance on the west
side and a senior's complex entrance on the right but still controlled by
signal lights.

I am first at the intersection. A public transit mobility bus [not a
standard bus but one for people with mobility handicaps] pulls up beside
me. Then before the light changes the bus starts inching forward
anticipating the light change so that he is blocking the crosswalk and
half his length ahead of me when the light turns and he makes his right
turn in front of me.

I'm pondering calling the Transit Service to make a complaint. Not too
many years ago a bus driver was convicted of causing the death of a
cyclist.

--
'Nobody here gets out alive' -jim morrison

I recently filed a complaint with our local transit agency for a similar
issue. They responded to my complaint and kept me informed through out the
process. He was a new driver during a probation period and after reviewing
his history the acency decided not to hire him full-time

lokey said:

I'm pondering calling the Transit Service to make a complaint. Not too many
years ago a bus driver was convicted of causing the death of a cyclist.

You absolutely should call. Better yet, write a letter. They can put
it in the driver's file.

Also, when you're stopped at a light, you should be in the center of
the lane to prevent that precise problem.

- Frank Krygowski

lokey said:

I'm pondering calling the Transit Service to make a complaint. Not too many
years ago a bus driver was convicted of causing the death of a cyclist.

In all seriousness: why *wouldn't* you call?

Glad you're ok.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

lokey said:

I'm pondering calling the Transit Service to make a complaint. Not too
many
years ago a bus driver was convicted of causing the death of a cyclist.

You absolutely should call. Better yet, write a letter. They can put
it in the driver's file.

Also, when you're stopped at a light, you should be in the center of
the lane to prevent that precise problem.

Without getting into the whole 'bike lane good/bike lane bad' thing: it
was a bikelaned street. I was in the bike lane and the bus driver was in the
first automotive lane.

--
'Just because you're wearing a tie
Doesn't mean you're bloody important'
-chumbawamba

Quoted message said:

Also, when you're stopped at a light, you should be in the center of
the lane to prevent that precise problem.

He was in a bike lane, illustrating one reason why bike lanes suck. As
you indicate, when I approach a light in a bike lane in this situation,
I usually take the rightmost full thru lane while waiting for the
light, and merge back into the bike lane as I cross the intersection.
Trucks and buses in that lane often can't even see you if you're on
their right in the bike lane, and even if they can, they don't.

RichC

"Neil Brooks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

lokey said:

I'm pondering calling the Transit Service to make a complaint. Not too
many
years ago a bus driver was convicted of causing the death of a cyclist.

In all seriousness: why *wouldn't* you call?

Glad you're ok.

I wasn't really at risk as I was stopped. If I had come up after him as
the light changed to green I would have been at risk.

What really irritated me was that it wasn't like I had ridden up to the
light after the bus and the driver did not notice me - still no excuse but
understandable. But the bus had come up behind me so there really is no
excuse for not seeing me. And _then_ to turn in front of me: I was tempted
to confront the driver but instead I resorted to cant [Calm blue ocean, calm
blue ocean] and got on with my ride to the lake.

Just so you know - I did call Guelph Transit. They said they'd get back to
me. Other than that and the driver caused fatality a few years ago I do have
a favourable opinion of GT. They converted their buses to bio-diesel and run
the service with a balanced budget.

--
'When a man is wrong and won't admit it,
he always gets angry.' -thomas c haliburton

lokey said:

I was going north in a bike lane on a multilane city street. I stop at a
light - not a cross-street intersection but a plaza entrance on the west
side and a senior's complex entrance on the right but still controlled by
signal lights.

I am first at the intersection. A public transit mobility bus [not a
standard bus but one for people with mobility handicaps] pulls up beside me.
Then before the light changes the bus starts inching forward anticipating
the light change so that he is blocking the crosswalk and half his length
ahead of me when the light turns and he makes his right turn in front of me.

I'm pondering calling the Transit Service to make a complaint. Not too many
years ago a bus driver was convicted of causing the death of a cyclist.

--
'Nobody here gets out alive' -jim morrison

If you noted the vehicle plate number, time of day, and street... I
would definitely call it in.

Unfortunately, where I come from motorists also seem to think they can
try to beat the pedestrians waiting to cross at the light when they try
to turn after waiting for the light.

When the pedestrian "walk" sign is up the motorists are supposed to
wait, many don't even both glancing to see the state of the "walk" sign.

lokey said:

I wasn't really at risk as I was stopped. If I had come up after him as
the light changed to green I would have been at risk.

What really irritated me was that it wasn't like I had ridden up to the
light after the bus and the driver did not notice me - still no excuse but
understandable. But the bus had come up behind me so there really is no
excuse for not seeing me. And _then_ to turn in front of me: I was tempted
to confront the driver but instead I resorted to cant [Calm blue ocean, calm
blue ocean] and got on with my ride to the lake.

I've also experienced this phenomena - some drivers of city busses take on
this attitude that they are large slow juggernauts that can intimidate the
traffic around them and they know that they can pull out of a bus stop into
traffic and cause any cars around them to divert or brake - afterall
getting a scratch or dent on the side of your bus is not such a big deal
(though you really don't want that) - but if it's your car that's
upsetting.

These few bus drivers, or 18 wheeler drivers get this sense that it's their
road and you -must- yield, even if you have to drive into someone's yard,
or stop.

Having acquired this 'sense' of juggernautery <g>, it's extremely easy to
transefer to a little biker - there is probably a feeling that you are just
a cartoon to be bumped aside - I doubt they imagine you actually getting
hurt and mangled - it would be cartoon blood and they'd grab your foot like
the roadrunner cartoon and blowy you back up to normal size.

So-o-o it's best to be forewarned and not put yourself in a vulnerable
position around them. Frank'scomment II think) to take the center of the
auto lane and then merge back after the light is a good one and I use this
also. I get right out in front of them and puff up to full 230lb
bodybuilder size and get 'seen'. ;-) Uh, I also know that sometimes I have
to get out of their way, or even ride up a sidestreet to let the threat
pass.

Glad you weren't hurt.

jj

Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:40:56 -0400, <[email hidden]>,
Joe Canuck <[email protected]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, where I come from motorists also seem to think they can
try to beat the pedestrians waiting to cross at the light when they try
to turn after waiting for the light.

Monday I almost got wiped by a chrome and vanity plated Hummer while
crossing in a cross walk. They didn't feel like waiting for a guy on
crutches. Their left-turn was more important. I could have reached out
and touched her shiny black scud. She'd have creamed a car had there
been one approaching the intersection on the side street I was
crossing. She had to go into their lane to cut me off so you know that
I was fully occupying the x-walk before she started her turn.

BTW, The BC vanity plate read "MAGGIE".
--
zk

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:15:06 -0400, "lokey" <[email hidden]> wrote:

<SNIP>

Quoted message said:

I've also experienced this phenomena - some drivers of city busses take on
this attitude that they are large slow juggernauts that can intimidate the
traffic around them and they know that they can pull out of a bus stop
into
traffic and cause any cars around them to divert or brake - afterall
getting a scratch or dent on the side of your bus is not such a big deal
(though you really don't want that) - but if it's your car that's
upsetting.

In my area the bus has the right to just pull into traffic from a stop.
Drivers have to yeild to the bus, not the bus to other drivers.

Zoot Katz said:

Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:40:56 -0400, <[email hidden]>,
Joe Canuck <[email protected]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, where I come from motorists also seem to think they can
try to beat the pedestrians waiting to cross at the light when they try
to turn after waiting for the light.

Monday I almost got wiped by a chrome and vanity plated Hummer while
crossing in a cross walk. They didn't feel like waiting for a guy on
crutches. Their left-turn was more important. I could have reached out
and touched her shiny black scud. She'd have creamed a car had there
been one approaching the intersection on the side street I was
crossing. She had to go into their lane to cut me off so you know that
I was fully occupying the x-walk before she started her turn.

BTW, The BC vanity plate read "MAGGIE".

In the apocalyptic scourge, she goes first.

I was going to begin with HUMMER drivers anyway . . .

Incidentally, was she selling Prada knock-offs?

Frank Drackman said:

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:15:06 -0400, "lokey" <[email hidden]> wrote:

<SNIP>

Quoted message said:

I've also experienced this phenomena - some drivers of city busses take on
this attitude that they are large slow juggernauts that can intimidate the
traffic around them and they know that they can pull out of a bus stop
into
traffic and cause any cars around them to divert or brake - afterall
getting a scratch or dent on the side of your bus is not such a big deal
(though you really don't want that) - but if it's your car that's
upsetting.

In my area the bus has the right to just pull into traffic from a stop.
Drivers have to yeild to the bus, not the bus to other drivers.

Um, this isn't really addressing the bad behavior of some bus drivers and
the transfer of this 'attitude' or delusion onto interactions with
cyclists, is it?

IMO, it's better for the big guy to look out for and yield to the little
guy in the street.

When you say 'your area' do you mean your city has a specific law to yield
to all busses? What if a cyclist can not yield at the time - does this give
the bus driver a legal right or tip the scales in the driver's benefit?

May I suggest you examine the wording and intent of the actual law, b/c
this seems to be an all around 'bad idea'. FWIW, I do think that a majority
of bus drivers -do- look out for cars and pedestrians and cyclists
-despite- what 'right' to pull out into already moving traffic that city
ordinance has given them. Further this doesn't absolve a cyclist from
taking prudent actions. I only bring in the bus-car interaction as a way to
explain the development of this 'attitude' that some bus drivers may
exhibit towards cyclists. Heh, why do I have to have an explanation? Well
guess it's a little hard for me to understand how big steel container
drivers feel threatened and need to act out towards harmless things trying
to share the road - so I've postulated a chain of events.

jj

"Frank Drackman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In my area the bus has the right to just pull into traffic from a stop.
Drivers have to yeild to the bus, not the bus to other drivers.

I am familiar with these types of bylaws. In my case the bus was not
pulling into traffic from a stop. He was making a right turn at a light.
And as described I doubt any jurisdiction gives the bus driver the right to
right turn before the light has changed.

--
'I can pull up by the curb
I can make it on the road
Going mobile' -the who

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:13:38 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In my area the bus has the right to just pull into traffic from a stop.
Drivers have to yeild to the bus, not the bus to other drivers.

[...]

Quoted message said:

When you say 'your area' do you mean your city has a specific law to yield
to all busses? What if a cyclist can not yield at the time - does this
give
the bus driver a legal right or tip the scales in the driver's benefit?

If it is like the ones I'm aware of: A bus pulling into traffic from a bus
stop has the right-of-way and other vehicles must cede that right to allow
it to return to traffic rather than the usual rule where the vehicle trying
to pull into traffic has to wait for an opening and the through traffic has
the right-of-way.

Quoted message said:

May I suggest you examine the wording and intent of the actual law, b/c
this seems to be an all around 'bad idea'.

It gives a precedence to public transit which I agree with.

However I reiterate: this was not the situation in my case. The bus was not
pulling into traffic from a bus stop. He was making a right turn without
ceding to the vehicle in the bike lane as well as anticipating the light.

--
'What's an aptitude test?'
'A suitability test, Ricky'
'I'll wear a suit if I have to.'
-from the trailer park boys

Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:54:50 -0400,
<[email hidden]>, jj<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It gives a precedence to public transit which I agree with.

While I like public transit, I wouldn't impose a law that's counter to the
ways that merging bodys safely merge.

The bus signals, you yield. Period. That's the law here too.
We've simply codified the law of the jungle.
--
zk

Fri, 03 Jun 2005 19:54:38 -0400,
<[email hidden]>, jj<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Besides being courteous, how would a diver know if that law is on the
books? I don't know of anyone who has been ticked for 'failing to yield to
a city bus', but I'm apparenly a moron on this. ;-)

Big retro reflective sign on the left corner of the bus says in huge
letters "YIELD - It's the Law" and then in slightly smaller letters
"Thanks" or "Thank You", something like that.
--
zk