Zig-zags rules

Matt B said:

In towns, with dense traffic, one, as a pedal cyclist, often resorts
to making progress in traffic queues by passing up the left-hand
side, or even in between lanes of stationary, or slow moving traffic.

Is it generally regarded as acceptable to pass traffic on the zig-zag
lines adjacent to zebra crossings?

As long as you are careful! If it *were* illegal then you would be a bit
stuck if the traffic is gridlocked!

Matt B said:

Is it generally regarded as acceptable to pass traffic on the zig-zag lines
adjacent to zebra crossings?

If doing so, bear in mind HC rule 167:
"You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the
vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians."

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Matt B said:

In towns, with dense traffic, one, as a pedal cyclist, often resorts to
making progress in traffic queues by passing up the left-hand side, or even
in between lanes of stationary, or slow moving traffic.

Is it generally regarded as acceptable to pass traffic on the zig-zag lines
adjacent to zebra crossings?

Provided you are prepared to stop at the crossing, or better still
treat it as a stop line, then I can see no harm done.

What I'd like to know is why do car drivers insist on driving on the
extreme left of the lane when the car in front is on the extreme right
of the lane? Is it just a perverse sense that tells them to block off
that cyclist they've just passed or are they so dense they don't even
know they are doing it?
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

"Danny Colyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt B said:

Is it generally regarded as acceptable to pass traffic on the zig-zag
lines adjacent to zebra crossings?

If doing so, bear in mind HC rule 167:
"You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing

Do you think that means that if there are three stationary vehicles behind
each other and the fourth is slowing, that the fourth is "the moving vehicle
nearest the crossing "?

Quoted message said:

or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to
pedestrians."

The answer to the original question is NO then. By adjacent I meant "the
vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians".

--
Matt B

Matt B said:

"Danny Colyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt B said:

Is it generally regarded as acceptable to pass traffic on the zig-zag
lines adjacent to zebra crossings?

If doing so, bear in mind HC rule 167:
"You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing

Do you think that means that if there are three stationary vehicles behind
each other and the fourth is slowing, that the fourth is "the moving vehicle
nearest the crossing "?

Quoted message said:

or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to
pedestrians."

The answer to the original question is NO then. By adjacent I meant "the
vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians".

But more often than not the vehicle at the crossing has stopped on the
crossing so that pedestrians have to weave among the vehicles to
cross. Treat the crossing as a stop line and you will have obeyed the
spirit rather than the letter of the law. IIRC Somewhere in the
Highway Code it also says you should not use the manoeuvrability of
your vehicle to pass vehicles in queuing traffic.

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

I said:

Quoted message said:

If doing so, bear in mind HC rule 167:
"You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing

and Matt B responded:

Quoted message said:

Do you think that means that if there are three stationary vehicles behind
each other and the fourth is slowing, that the fourth is "the moving vehicle
nearest the crossing "?

Interesting question. I haven't looked at the actual legislation, but I
would expect the law only to forbid passing the vehicle closest to the
crossing.

Hmm. The rule refers to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, which
AFAIK is not available online, and the Zebra, Pelican and Pedestrian
Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997, which ought to be.

<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1997/97240001.htm>

The really interesting bit, now that I come to look at the legislation,
is that it refers specifically to motor vehicles. It looks like it
should be permissible to overtake on a pedal cycle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to
pedestrians."

Quoted message said:

The answer to the original question is NO then. By adjacent I meant "the
vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians".

Ah, sorry, I thought you were referring to the zig-zags adjacent to the
crossing and to vehicles on those zig-zags, not to the vehicle adjacent
to the crossing.

But, having looked at the legislation rather than just at the HC, it
looks like I may have been wrong and the answer to the original question
would be YES.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Phil Cook said:

What I'd like to know is why do car drivers insist on driving on the
extreme left of the lane when the car in front is on the extreme right
of the lane? Is it just a perverse sense that tells them to block off
that cyclist they've just passed or are they so dense they don't even
know they are doing it?

I refer the honourable gentlemen to Hanlon's Razor.

Jon

Matt B said:

In towns, with dense traffic, one, as a pedal cyclist, often resorts to
making progress in traffic queues by passing up the left-hand side, or even
in between lanes of stationary, or slow moving traffic.

Is it generally regarded as acceptable to pass traffic on the zig-zag lines
adjacent to zebra crossings?

If I can do so I will move slowly forwards past the stationary
traffic. I try and find myself a spot where I will be highly visible
and can slip safely into the flow when traffic starts moving again.

This is more important to me than gaining a few extra feet in forward
progress.

--
Stephen Chadfield
http://www.chadfield.com/

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:56:48 +0100, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk said:

Phil Cook said:

What I'd like to know is why do car drivers insist on driving on the
extreme left of the lane when the car in front is on the extreme right
of the lane? Is it just a perverse sense that tells them to block off
that cyclist they've just passed or are they so dense they don't even
know they are doing it?

I refer the honourable gentlemen to Hanlon's Razor.

Normally appropriate, but I have noticed certain motorists move to the
right as they see me approach. It's too obvious to be drifting.

Phil Cook <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Matt B wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Danny Colyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt B wrote:
> Is it generally regarded as acceptable to pass traffic on the zig-zag
> lines adjacent to zebra crossings?

If doing so, bear in mind HC rule 167:
"You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing

Do you think that means that if there are three stationary vehicles behind
each other and the fourth is slowing, that the fourth is "the moving
vehicle
nearest the crossing "?

Quoted message said:

or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to
pedestrians."

The answer to the original question is NO then. By adjacent I meant "the
vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians".

Quoted message said:

But more often than not the vehicle at the crossing has stopped on the
crossing so that pedestrians have to weave among the vehicles to
cross. Treat the crossing as a stop line and you will have obeyed the
spirit rather than the letter of the law. IIRC Somewhere in the
Highway Code it also says you should not use the manoeuvrability of
your vehicle to pass vehicles in queuing traffic.

Even though the HC says you should leave crossings clear in traffic jams
and it is illegal to stop on a crossing except to give way to a
pedestrian or to prevent an accident...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Adrian Boliston said:

Matt B said:

In towns, with dense traffic, one, as a pedal cyclist, often resorts
to making progress in traffic queues by passing up the left-hand
side, or even in between lanes of stationary, or slow moving traffic.

Is it generally regarded as acceptable to pass traffic on the zig-zag
lines adjacent to zebra crossings?

As long as you are careful! If it *were* illegal then you would be a bit
stuck if the traffic is gridlocked!

What fundemental law says that you
shouldn't be stuck in gridlocked traffic?
(annoying as that would be)
BugBear

"Danny Colyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I said:

Quoted message said:

If doing so, bear in mind HC rule 167:
"You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing

and Matt B responded:

Quoted message said:

Do you think that means that if there are three stationary vehicles
behind each other and the fourth is slowing, that the fourth is "the
moving vehicle nearest the crossing "?

Interesting question. I haven't looked at the actual legislation, but I
would expect the law only to forbid passing the vehicle closest to the
crossing.

Hmm. The rule refers to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, which AFAIK
is not available online, and the Zebra, Pelican and Pedestrian Crossings
Regulations and General Directions 1997, which ought to be.

<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1997/97240001.htm>

The really interesting bit, now that I come to look at the legislation, is
that it refers specifically to motor vehicles. It looks like it should be
permissible to overtake on a pedal cycle.

Yes. Some parts exclude cyclists.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to
pedestrians."

Quoted message said:

The answer to the original question is NO then. By adjacent I meant "the
vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to
pedestrians".

Ah, sorry, I thought you were referring to the zig-zags adjacent to the
crossing and to vehicles on those zig-zags, not to the vehicle adjacent to
the crossing.

But, having looked at the legislation rather than just at the HC, it looks
like I may have been wrong and the answer to the original question would
be YES.

Thanks for the reference, I'll try and digest it ;-)

--
Matt B

"Phil Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt B said:

In towns, with dense traffic, one, as a pedal cyclist, often resorts to
making progress in traffic queues by passing up the left-hand side, or
even
in between lanes of stationary, or slow moving traffic.

Is it generally regarded as acceptable to pass traffic on the zig-zag
lines
adjacent to zebra crossings?

Provided you are prepared to stop at the crossing, or better still
treat it as a stop line, then I can see no harm done.

What I'd like to know is why do car drivers insist on driving on the
extreme left of the lane when the car in front is on the extreme right
of the lane?

Improved view lines?

Quoted message said:

Is it just a perverse sense that tells them to block off
that cyclist they've just passed or are they so dense they don't even
know they are doing it?

I suspect many do it automatically to improve their view ahead.

--
Matt B

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Phil Cook said:

What I'd like to know is why do car drivers insist on driving on the
extreme left of the lane when the car in front is on the extreme right
of the lane? Is it just a perverse sense that tells them to block off
that cyclist they've just passed or are they so dense they don't even
know they are doing it?

I refer the honourable gentlemen to Hanlon's Razor.

What's that then?

--
Matt B

"Stephen Chadfield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt B said:

In towns, with dense traffic, one, as a pedal cyclist, often resorts to
making progress in traffic queues by passing up the left-hand side, or
even
in between lanes of stationary, or slow moving traffic.

Is it generally regarded as acceptable to pass traffic on the zig-zag
lines
adjacent to zebra crossings?

If I can do so I will move slowly forwards past the stationary
traffic. I try and find myself a spot where I will be highly visible
and can slip safely into the flow when traffic starts moving again.

This is more important to me than gaining a few extra feet in forward
progress.

Do you consider if you are blocking the view of pedestrians from other
riders/drivers?

--
Matt B

Danny Colyer said:

and Matt B responded:

Quoted message said:

Do you think that means that if there are three stationary vehicles
behind each other and the fourth is slowing, that the fourth is "the
moving vehicle nearest the crossing "?

Interesting question. I haven't looked at the actual legislation, but I
would expect the law only to forbid passing the vehicle closest to the
crossing.

Hmm. The rule refers to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, which
AFAIK is not available online, and the Zebra, Pelican and Pedestrian
Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997, which ought to be.

<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1997/97240001.htm>

The really interesting bit, now that I come to look at the legislation,
is that it refers specifically to motor vehicles. It looks like it
should be permissible to overtake on a pedal cycle.

This is because the basis of the legislation is line of sight and
stopping distance. The driver of an overtaking vehicle should be able to
see the left hand side of the crossing beyond the nose of the vehicle
being overtaken and then be able to stop before the crossing if someone
is entering the crossing. The zig-zagged area is the area where this
isn't possible for the speed limit of the road. Overtaking a cyclist
doesn't, normally, cause the same visual problems.

Colin

In article said:

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Phil Cook said:

What I'd like to know is why do car drivers insist on driving on the
extreme left of the lane when the car in front is on the extreme right
of the lane? Is it just a perverse sense that tells them to block off
that cyclist they've just passed or are they so dense they don't even
know they are doing it?

I refer the honourable gentlemen to Hanlon's Razor.

What's that then?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hanlon%27s+razor