hills questions

To climb effectively you need technique, endurance and I guess the strength factor depends on what gear you use. I mean, a heavy guy who climbs a steep hill on the big crank would need some degree of strength but lesser mortals can spin in lower gears (so strength isn't such an issue)
The average guy on the street wouldn't be able to climb the hills I do as fast or as efficiently and I very much doubt they'd make it all the way up. So, yes, you're developing some kind of ability.
Why can't you finish the climb do you think? Are you hanging over the bars gasping for life or do your legs simply pack up? 🙂

sam218 said:

I have 3 questions, 1) I see people climb up a 200 meter 10% grade fast
near my house (I cant finish it). Does this imply some sort of ability?
(strength? high lactate threshold)?

2) From what i've read the tour de france climbs arent that steep, usually less than 8% I think. To me this sounds not that difficult.

3) Some pro climbs I've seen (classics) require people to get off the bike or they fall over. Whats the point of that? When you can walk up hill faster than you ride?

sam218 said:

I have 3 questions, 1) I see people climb up a 200 meter 10% grade fast
near my house (I cant finish it). Does this imply some sort of ability?
(strength? high lactate threshold)?

2) From what i've read the tour de france climbs arent that steep, usually less than 8% I think. To me this sounds not that difficult.

3) Some pro climbs I've seen (classics) require people to get off the bike or they fall over. Whats the point of that? When you can walk up hill faster than you ride?

Practice and maybe some lower gears should help you. I have a triple and I need the low gears for the steepest hills. I am a girl though so it is more acceptable I guess :p.

The worst grade I have encoutered and the only time I've had to get off and walk that I remember since I was a kid (the funny part is that the road is a suggested bike route on a county bike map) is a whopping 26% grade. I'm not kidding. We had a chat with a surveyor who happened to be out on the road and he told us what the grade was and I don't think he was yanking our chain. It wasn't so much that I couldn't keep going up it that caused the problem, it was that it was so steep that the front wheel of the bike would not stay on the road! Maybe if I could have kept my weight forward I could have made it, but I don't climb well out of the saddle and sitting down whilst gripping the handle bars firmly would lift up the front wheel. It was definitely a clip out or tip over moment.

I've also experienced my wheels slipping on steep hills if they are wet or sandy, which can be a problem if you don't want to fall over. I think the pro's you've seen walking are from Paris -Roubaix on some of the cobblestone climbs. If your wheel slips on a wet or just plain slippery cobble and you have to put a foot down or fall on a steep grade it is unlikely you will get started again so you may as well just walk.

sam218 said:

3) Some pro climbs I've seen (classics) require people to get off the bike or they fall over.

Can anyone else confirm this? I don't believe that I've ever seen pros walking their bikes in a race except for cyclocross or to circumvent a road blocking crash. Certainly never because they couldn't ride up a steep hill.

frenchyge said:

Can anyone else confirm this? I don't believe that I've ever seen pros walking their bikes in a race except for cyclocross or to circumvent a road blocking crash. Certainly never because they couldn't ride up a steep hill.

I have seen it happen but only in the Paris - Roubaix. I think it is just impossible to get started again on wet slippery and steep cobblestones, so walk it is. I have never seen a pro walk in any other situation.

frenchyge said:

Can anyone else confirm this? I don't believe that I've ever seen pros walking their bikes in a race except for cyclocross or to circumvent a road blocking crash. Certainly never because they couldn't ride up a steep hill.

In this years Fleche Wallone some of the pros got off and walked. I don't know the grades, but I'd guess 25%+ is when this happens, a lot of times this is after they already have 100+ miles and several other climbs already in their legs.

OCRoadie said:

In this years Fleche Wallone some of the pros got off and walked. I don't know the grades, but I'd guess 25%+ is when this happens, a lot of times this is after they already have 100+ miles and several other climbs already in their legs.

Well ok, thanks. I'd think they'd ride a triple chainring or something before they got off and walked. Do they stay in a paceline while walking? :p

sam218 said:

I have 3 questions, 1) I see people climb up a 200 meter 10% grade fast
near my house (I cant finish it). Does this imply some sort of ability?
(strength? high lactate threshold)?

2) From what i've read the tour de france climbs arent that steep, usually less than 8% I think. To me this sounds not that difficult.

3) Some pro climbs I've seen (classics) require people to get off the bike or they fall over. Whats the point of that? When you can walk up hill faster than you ride?

1. Climbing a 200 meter, 10% grade implies a high power-to-weight ratio. I've read that Lance can climb at 1800 meters/hour, which means he could climb your 200 meter vertical hill in 6 mins 40 seconds, at a speed of 11.25 mph. If he races at 72 kg bodyweight, on an 8 kg bike, that rate of climb translates to a sustain power output of around 440 n-m/sec (watts), or over 6 watts/kg.

2. 8% mountain grades are very difficult, particularly towards the end of a 140 mile stage race. The challenge isn't to complete the climb, it's to go up with the peleton at 10-14 mph...without blowing up.

3. Have never seen a pro get off and walk, unless the pavement is slick or cobbled. In the Tour de Georgia last month, the Brasstown Bald climb has sections well over 20%, and didn't hear about anyone walking. Read that Team Navigator used triples on this stage and Lance used a 27 on his double.

dhk said:

1. Climbing a 200 meter, 10% grade implies a high power-to-weight ratio. I've read that Lance can climb at 1800 meters/hour, which means he could climb your 200 meter vertical hill in 6 mins 40 seconds, at a speed of 11.25 mph. If he races at 72 kg bodyweight, on an 8 kg bike, that rate of climb translates to a sustain power output of around 440 n-m/sec (watts), or over 6 watts/kg.

I think a 200 meter, 10% grade means that the climb is 200m long and rises 20m in that distance. That'd take Lance about a blink and a half...

Eden said:

I have seen it happen but only in the Paris - Roubaix. I think it is just impossible to get started again on wet slippery and steep cobblestones, so walk it is. I have never seen a pro walk in any other situation.

Paris-Roubaix is so flat, riders will use inner rings as large as 48 teeth. There are no steep sections.

sam218 said:

I have 3 questions, 1) I see people climb up a 200 meter 10% grade fast
near my house (I cant finish it). Does this imply some sort of ability?
(strength? high lactate threshold)?

2) From what i've read the tour de france climbs arent that steep, usually less than 8% I think. To me this sounds not that difficult.

3) Some pro climbs I've seen (classics) require people to get off the bike or they fall over. Whats the point of that? When you can walk up hill faster than you ride?

Well its steep, so my rpm drops- I guess I need a triple, or to develop lots of power. But this short 4 minute rise is totally different from long climbs.
People who are good on this short rise may not be good on the longer ones, I think.

sam218 said:

Well its steep, so my rpm drops- I guess I need a triple, or to develop lots of power. But this short 4 minute rise is totally different from long climbs.
People who are good on this short rise may not be good on the longer ones, I think.

I can't believe that would be a 4 minute climb for anyone. That's less than 1 m/s (2.23mph)!

Short, steep hills are about gaining momentum at the bottom, and then standing and cranking early to keep as much of it as you can. Downshift as your legs start to bog down, but you should run out of hill before you run out of gears. Sit and catch your breath at the top.

There's a short, steep hill like that near my house. Our group typically sprint/races to the top and then regroups on the flat.

Can someone tell me how do u guess or know a hill's height(m)?

N how do we know the grade(%)?

roger89 said:

Can someone tell me how do u guess or know a hill's height(m)?

N how do we know the grade(%)?

You can measure the height with an altimeter or GPS elevation readings. Some people have these instruments as part of their bike computer suite.

The grade is the amount of rise divided by the length of the road, multiplied by 100 to read as a percentage. A 10% grade rises 1 meter for every 10m of distance travelled.

a 200 meter long hill that is 10% does not require much endurance at all. you can simply sprint up it. any road rider who is in good shape will climb it in under 30 seconds.
a good sprinter will do it in 20-25 seconds.

sam218 said:

Well its steep, so my rpm drops- I guess I need a triple, or to develop lots of power.

I think saying that you need a triple (to raise your cadence while climbing) *OR* develop more power shows a slight bit of a misunderstanding. Higher cadence does not necessarily mean that you climb with less power. You can push a larger gear with a lower cadence or push a lower gear with higher cadence and produce the same amount of power physiologically. Power is a measure of amount of work (measured in energy units) done per unit time. The work can be done by applying a larger amount of force more slowly or a smaller amount of force more rapidly. It is very possible that you can produce more power if you had a triple that enabled you to keep your cadence high during steep climbs.

The amount of power you can produce dictates how fast you can climb a given grade. How you produce that power is immaterial to whether you're a strong climber or not, putting aside secondary discussions about what's easier on the knees long term, whether it's better to tax your aerobic system more, etc.

Berend

squidwranglr said:

I think saying that you need a triple (to raise your cadence while climbing) *OR* develop more power shows a slight bit of a misunderstanding.

A lower gearing allows you to maintain a comfortable (ie 60+) cadence while climbing slower. That's how less power would be required.

The OP may have a misunderstanding, but I believe he was trying to say that if he doesn't have the power to climb fast, then he'd use a triple to climb slow.

frenchyge said:

I think a 200 meter, 10% grade means that the climb is 200m long and rises 20m in that distance. That'd take Lance about a blink and a half...

OK, misread the hill. If it's a 20 meter (66 foot) vertical gain, agree with you guys. I can almost sprint over those....given enough speed at the bottom!

I think we're all confused. Is the hill 200 long or does it rise 200M? Big difference.

L

To Lonnie: Well, now that you mention it I guess I'm not positive either. The OP did call it a "short, 4-minute rise." I guess that could mean that it's 2km in length and someone's riding it at 30km/h, but that seems pretty quick for a 10% grade.

sam218 said:

Well its steep, so my rpm drops- I guess I need a triple, or to develop lots of power. But this short 4 minute rise is totally different from long climbs.
People who are good on this short rise may not be good on the longer ones, I think.