Middleman Registration

Corvus Corvax said:

So. Point of discussion. Why should anyone trust these guys with all
that information?

CC

Cause you want to do it and they have the contract with the promoters.
I also suppose they need more pertinent info to cover theirs (and the
promoters) asses. What if you get hurt and are not conscious? They all
ask for this info. My club even asks for it when we have MTB trips.

I would do this, but I get back from Idaho the day before. Excuses,
excuses. I know.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot said:

Cause you want to do it and they have the contract with the promoters.
I also suppose they need more pertinent info to cover theirs (and the
promoters) asses. What if you get hurt and are not conscious? They all
ask for this info. My club even asks for it when we have MTB trips.

You are completely missing the point. I _want_ the promoters have this
info, but I do not want it stored indefinitely in a commercial database
not associated with the event. It's extremly poor data hygeine. The
fact that the people running the web site don't show any external
evidence of recognizing this does not give me a lot of faith in their
professionalism in this regard.

I _have_ done some searches on the web site, and it is certainly widely
used (rec.bicycles.racing is full of references to the site and its
owners). I have no doubt they are nice people, and I'm sure the site
isn't a scam. I just doubt their competence.

CC

I said:

It's extremly poor data hygeine.

Yoicks! Thats an ugly mass of typos.

*Ahem*

Extremely poor data hygiene.

Thank you very much.

CC

Corvus Corvax said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Cause you want to do it and they have the contract with the promoters.
I also suppose they need more pertinent info to cover theirs (and the
promoters) asses. What if you get hurt and are not conscious? They all
ask for this info. My club even asks for it when we have MTB trips.

You are completely missing the point. I _want_ the promoters have this
info, but I do not want it stored indefinitely in a commercial database
not associated with the event. It's extremly poor data hygeine. The
fact that the people running the web site don't show any external
evidence of recognizing this does not give me a lot of faith in their
professionalism in this regard.

I _have_ done some searches on the web site, and it is certainly widely
used (rec.bicycles.racing is full of references to the site and its
owners). I have no doubt they are nice people, and I'm sure the site
isn't a scam. I just doubt their competence.

CC

I read their privacy policy. I run my employers Website in which we
collect donations and have member specific areas. We ask for similar
information including memorial / in-kind info. We store only the last
four digits of a credit card. We keep their info for the same reasons
these people do. They will use it for marketing purposes in the future
(to which you can opt-out of) or to allow simpler entry the next time.
I am not saying it is correct, but it is a widely followed practice.
The data is SSL encrypted and while this is never perfect, it should
give you some security. The data is retained so that the next time you
use their services, you do not have to re-enter it. Amazon.com does
this as do the majority of online retailers. Heck, even Jenson USA and
Pricepoint do it.

I scanned their ports and found that all of the major database ports are
closed. In other words, there is no direct access via management apps
to the data. I really do not think you have anything to worry about.
If someone wanted to get your identity, there are easier ways to go
about it other than sniffing a bike race registration site. If you have
a curbside mailbox, a simple drive by can net a tremendous amount of
information.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot said:

I run my employers Website in which we collect donations and have member
specific areas. We ask for similar information including memorial / in-kind
info.

[...]

Quoted message said:

I really do not think you have anything to worry about.

Well, ok, then I doubt your competence too.

CC

Corvus Corvax said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

I run my employers Website in which we collect donations and have member
specific areas. We ask for similar information including memorial / in-kind
info.

[...]

Quoted message said:

I really do not think you have anything to worry about.

Well, ok, then I doubt your competence too.

CC

Way too paranoid! I give up.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

"Corvus Corvax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So here's a conundrum. I've been looking forward to the Singlespeed
World Championships in Pennsylvania all spring.

Then I find out about their registration procedure, through the
bikereg.com website. They're a kind of "middleman" for race
registrations. Sorta makes sense, I doubt the weird miscreants planning
the race have time to set up a web site to handle the registrations
themselves.

But...

The asked for a lot of personal information, and all evidence was that
it was being saved in a database essentially in perpetuity. Birth date
(ok, I can lie about this). Address. Phone number. Emergency contact
info. Credit card number. They don't have much of a privacy policy or
any data retention policy, or more than generic contact info. In short,
I don't trust them, and I don't like giving all that info to somebody
who is no more than a middleman in the transaction. I don't use Paypal
for exactly the same reason.

Perhaps the SSWC is just getting too big and too popular. They've got
2000 people interested in 400 slots, and are having to do this to
handle the load. Had to happen, I guess.

So. Point of discussion. Why should anyone trust these guys with all
that information?

CC

Will, when are you going to be there? Would you like to meet up or
something? We won't be racing, unfortunately...

- CA-G

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

Ride-A-Lot said:

Corvus Corvax said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

I run my employers Website in which we collect donations and have member
specific areas. We ask for similar information including memorial / in-kind
info.

[...]

Quoted message said:

I really do not think you have anything to worry about.

Well, ok, then I doubt your competence too.

CC

Way too paranoid! I give up.

What - you're saying this ISN'T an insidious plot to take over the
world and ruin CC's life? Heh.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Corvus Corvax said:

Ride-A-Lot wrote:

>I run my employers Website in which we collect donations and have member
>specific areas. We ask for similar information including memorial / in-kind
>info.

[...]

>I really do not think you have anything to worry about.

Well, ok, then I doubt your competence too.

CC

Way too paranoid! I give up.

What - you're saying this ISN'T an insidious plot to take over the
world and ruin CC's life? Heh.

LOL! Well, now if I were running that Website...

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot (Domination Through Internet) o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

"Corvus Corvax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So here's a conundrum. I've been looking forward to the Singlespeed
World Championships in Pennsylvania all spring.

Then I find out about their registration procedure, through the
bikereg.com website. They're a kind of "middleman" for race
registrations. Sorta makes sense, I doubt the weird miscreants planning
the race have time to set up a web site to handle the registrations
themselves.

But...

The asked for a lot of personal information, and all evidence was that
it was being saved in a database essentially in perpetuity. Birth date
(ok, I can lie about this). Address. Phone number. Emergency contact
info. Credit card number. They don't have much of a privacy policy or
any data retention policy, or more than generic contact info. In short,
I don't trust them, and I don't like giving all that info to somebody
who is no more than a middleman in the transaction. I don't use Paypal
for exactly the same reason.

Perhaps the SSWC is just getting too big and too popular. They've got
2000 people interested in 400 slots, and are having to do this to
handle the load. Had to happen, I guess.

So. Point of discussion. Why should anyone trust these guys with all
that information?

CC

because you don't get to play if you don't pay?

"Corvus Corvax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

I run my employers Website in which we collect donations and have member
specific areas. We ask for similar information including memorial /
in-kind
info.

[...]

Quoted message said:

I really do not think you have anything to worry about.

Well, ok, then I doubt your competence too.

CC

You can surely doubt everyone's competance, hey, it's the American Way, but
it looks like you'd rather do it from the sofa....

Quoted message said:

"Corvus Corvax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You are completely missing the point. I _want_ the promoters have this
info,

no you don't or this wouldn't even be a discussion. The promoter wants the
"middleman" to have it. And if you respected the promoters wishes, you would
do it gladly. Sounds like you're going to let this hang up your year long
plans to me...

Quoted message said:

but I do not want it stored indefinitely in a commercial database
not associated with the event. It's extremly poor data hygeine.

Question? Do you ever buy anything on line? If so all of the above is a
farce....

Quoted message said:

The
fact that the people running the web site don't show any external
evidence of recognizing this does not give me a lot of faith in their
professionalism in this regard.

What? You want some sort of disclaimer? jeez...if it were that easy EVERY
Web site would do it....

Quoted message said:

I _have_ done some searches on the web site, and it is certainly widely
used (rec.bicycles.racing is full of references to the site and its
owners). I have no doubt they are nice people, and I'm sure the site
isn't a scam. I just doubt their competence.

Considering all the print you get (great haiku in DR by the way!!) I would
have thought you were extremely competent. This post will not change my mind
about that, even though you're whinnings in it might show otherwise...

Quoted message said:

CC

Corvus Corvax said:

So here's a conundrum. I've been looking forward to the Singlespeed
World Championships in Pennsylvania all spring.

Then I find out about their registration procedure, through the
bikereg.com website. They're a kind of "middleman" for race
registrations. Sorta makes sense, I doubt the weird miscreants planning
the race have time to set up a web site to handle the registrations
themselves.

But...

The asked for a lot of personal information, and all evidence was that
it was being saved in a database essentially in perpetuity. Birth date
(ok, I can lie about this). Address. Phone number. Emergency contact
info. Credit card number. They don't have much of a privacy policy or
any data retention policy, or more than generic contact info. In short,
I don't trust them, and I don't like giving all that info to somebody
who is no more than a middleman in the transaction. I don't use Paypal
for exactly the same reason.

Perhaps the SSWC is just getting too big and too popular. They've got
2000 people interested in 400 slots, and are having to do this to
handle the load. Had to happen, I guess.

So. Point of discussion. Why should anyone trust these guys with all
that information?

CC

All you can do is take reasonable care. This company is well-respected
and your choices are to hope they play nice with your data (most likely
they will) or to bag it (and lots of other things because this is now
how business works these days). If they were careless they'd be out of
business pretty quickly.
You know these guys are a third party because they make it obvious. If
you've signed up for more than a couple of things online directly with a
company chances are you've used a third party then, but they just
decided that they didn't want to reveal that to you. It's a very common
practice. I've written software that does exactly this.
I'd probably trust them because they aren't new on the scene, and
probably have a lot more expertise protecting people's personal
information than the organizers of the race. Race organizers should be
race organizing experts. Online registration services should be online
registration (and the security issues surrounding it) experts.
That isn't true 100% of the time but that's life. 100% of drivers should
pay attention and follow the rules but as we all know we're missing that
mark by more than a few points.

Matt (one of "them"😉

Ride-A-Lot said:

Mark Hickey said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Corvus Corvax wrote:

> Ride-A-Lot wrote:
>
>
>> I run my employers Website in which we collect donations and have
>> member specific areas. We ask for similar information including
>> memorial / in-kind info.
>
> [...]
>
>
>> I really do not think you have anything to worry about.
>
> Well, ok, then I doubt your competence too.
>
> CC

Way too paranoid! I give up.

What - you're saying this ISN'T an insidious plot to take over the
world and ruin CC's life? Heh.

LOL! Well, now if I were running that Website...

What about just telling them you don't have internet and where's the form to
mail in?

1¢

"MattB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

. Race organizers should be race organizing experts. >Online registration
services should be online registration (and the security issues surrounding
it) >experts.
That isn't true 100% of the time but that's life. 100% of drivers should
pay attention and follow the rules but as we all know we're missing that
mark by more than a few points.

Matt (one of "them"😉

Well said. Especially that last part about drivers.

Dave (from GA, home of 39 traffic deaths over Memorial day Weekend, setting
a new record!!)

small change said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Mark Hickey said:

Ride-A-Lot <[email hidden]> wrote:

>Corvus Corvax wrote:
>
>
>>Ride-A-Lot wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I run my employers Website in which we collect donations and have
>>>member specific areas. We ask for similar information including
>>>memorial / in-kind info.
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>
>>
>>>I really do not think you have anything to worry about.
>>
>>Well, ok, then I doubt your competence too.
>>
>>CC
>
>Way too paranoid! I give up.

What - you're saying this ISN'T an insidious plot to take over the
world and ruin CC's life? Heh.

LOL! Well, now if I were running that Website...

What about just telling them you don't have internet and where's the form to
mail in?

1¢

....and then they have someone enter your info into that same site when
they get your form. It might help with the paranoia, but probably not
much else.
Another benefit to using these kinds of services is they use the same
database for the timing system so everyone has to he in it.

Matt

Dave W said:

Question? Do you ever buy anything on line? If so all of the above is a
farce....

No, Dave, the registration process requires information not typically
required to complete an online transaction. If somebody asked me for
all that info to buy a new headset online, I would immediately go
elsewhere.

And in point of fact I typically avoid online purchases from vendors
like Amazon who require persistent registrations as a condition of
doing business with them. It's poor security (as any number of database
breaches have already shown).

CC

Corvus Corvax said:

Dave W said:

Question? Do you ever buy anything on line? If so all of the above is a
farce....

No, Dave, the registration process requires information not typically
required to complete an online transaction. If somebody asked me for
all that info to buy a new headset online, I would immediately go
elsewhere.

And in point of fact I typically avoid online purchases from vendors
like Amazon who require persistent registrations as a condition of
doing business with them. It's poor security (as any number of database
breaches have already shown).

CC

If you do not mind me asking, how old are you? Have you ever had an
identity theft committed against you?

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

MattB said:

All you can do is take reasonable care. This company is well-respected
and your choices are to hope they play nice with your data (most likely
they will) or to bag it (and lots of other things because this is now
how business works these days). If they were careless they'd be out of
business pretty quickly.

This is a fact. One can't do business without exposure, obviously.

Quoted message said:

You know these guys are a third party because they make it obvious. If
you've signed up for more than a couple of things online directly with a
company chances are you've used a third party then, but they just
decided that they didn't want to reveal that to you. It's a very common
practice.

This is an excellent point as well. But in this circumstance the
security issues are different because the middleman is not making the
transaction (or registration) information available online via a logon.
Also, as I pointed out to the gentleman who cannot tell haiku from free
verse, the nature of the information involved is different. The race
registration contains information I _never_ give to online vendors. I
want the promoters to have my wife's cell phone number in case I am
injured. But she doesn't want it in bikereg.com's marketing database,
now does she?

I'm going to hold my nose and give them what they want. But the thing
that astounds me is the number of people who, like Ride-A-Lot or the
people who run bikereg.com, make their living running online
transaction sites who obviously do not think deeply about security
issues. For example, business and university sysadmins who routinely
use your social security number as a personal ID. Another relevant
example is somebody who asks for your birth date when simply asking for
age would do the same job without compromising data used by (for
example) credit card companies as confidential security info. I mean,
why would anybody hack a bike race site, right? Anybody who says that
isn't thinking.

Whenever I fill out any form, online or not, I ask: why do they want to
know this, and is it any of their business? Often it isn't. I've been
asked to show a driver's license to return a pair of shorts to the
store. This kind of thing is becoming increasingly common, largely
because of people who just shrug and say "what's the diff?"

CC