Back fatigue

Quoted message said:

I wonder if anyone might have had a similar experience. As it stands, I'm

I have this same problem, especially at races. The other people on my team tell me that after having
worked physical therapy for a while, they advise me to stretch before I ride. I haven't ACTUALLY
tried it, even though it's been almost a year since they gave me that advice. My seating position
seems good, and my stem is shorter for my shorter stature. I ride a WTB Rocket V too.

You can try the stretch technique and report back here unless I get back here first...

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Alan McClure" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2KoPa.31528$H17.9527@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

Well, I'm trying to figure out what the likely culprit is because lately--past week or two--my
lower back muscles have been fatiguing fairly quickly during rides. I first noticed it during the,
up to that point,

2nd

Quoted message said:

longest ride of the season. On that day, I figured it was just a matter

of

Quoted message said:

pushing it more than I had so far, so the next day I rode a shorter

distance

Quoted message said:

( Iwas able to ride every day for about 3 weeks before this started happening) and it was still
stressed, so the next day I rode even a

shorter

Quoted message said:

distance, etc. until I got to the point where it was feeling okay, but I wasn't able to ride any
more than about 1 hour--not long if you ask me.

So

Quoted message said:

then I started thinking that maybe something else was the issue. I had changed my saddle from a
more cushy gel filled sort like this: makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

to a much lighter, stiffer and thinner saddle: WTB rocket V Race

I love the saddle, and it is not uncomfortable on my [censored], but I started thinking somehow it was
so much stiffer, that my back was taking more of a pounding. So I figured that I would work my way
up to riding longer, but

it

Quoted message said:

didn't seem to be working, and I started to wonder if it wasn't something else. At this point, I
got sick and for three days couldn't ride. Today,

I

Quoted message said:

rode just about 40 minutes and felt better than ever in terms of energy

and

Quoted message said:

leg power, etc. So it seems that the rest of my body recovered. However, by the end of the ride,
my back was fatigued again. I don't really know what the deal is, I am really happy with the way
my bike is set up for riding, I feel like I have the most control possible for technical

sections,

Quoted message said:

uphills, etc. If I change anything, it doesn't climb the way I like, etc. So, I really don't want
to raise the handle bar, etc. I am just trying to figure out what could be causing this, when I
had been riding for over a month, and at least 3 weeks straight before this happened.

I wonder if anyone might have had a similar experience. As it stands, I'm just going to keep
trying to ride a little longer everyday, but I hope

that

Quoted message said:

I can eventually ride longer than 1 hour, at which point the rest of me is not even slightly
tired. I wonder, does anyone have a photo of good

riding

Quoted message said:

posture. I'm fairly certain that I ride correctly, but maybe not, and I haven't been able to find
a photo specifically for the purpose of showing good riding posture (for the loser back).

Thanks as always,

Alan McClure
--
Alan McClure

As previously mentioned stretching is always a good idea before and after riding. You may also
consider working the 'front' or abdominal muscles to help support your torso. These muscles don't
get worked at all from cycling but are very helpful in maintaining good posture on the bike and will
take some of the load off your lower back. Plus a strong core muscle group is quite helpful in
maintaining control of the bike in situations where you need to pull off a move like a wheelie drop
or recovering from a 'tweaked' (slipped or deflected) wheel. Oh and there is a 'stretch' you can do
on your bike. When the going gets smooth get up off the saddle and bend your body toward the stem
and straighten your arms. It doesn't so much stretch your back muscles but relieves the tension on
them for a bit which seems to help.

Mike

Thanks for the advice on stretching. Do you think it is at all weird that it happened after riding
quite a bit with no problem, and then after three days of rest still is fatiguing? It just seems
like a weird situation to
me. Also, do you think that slightly (very slightly) shortening my stem would effect my back
positively?

n.

"Alan McClure" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UazPa.34843$Ph3.2899@sccrnsc04...

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the advice on stretching. Do you think it is at all weird that it happened after riding
quite a bit with no problem, and then after three days of rest still is fatiguing? It just seems
like a weird situation to
me. Also, do you think that slightly (very slightly) shortening my stem would effect my back
positively?

A.

My legs and sides are still burning, and I haven't ridden in two days (damn rain, probably for the
best tho...). I did 5 rides in 4 days, plus some other rides before that. The 10+ mile technical
ride, followed a few hours later by the 45 minute flat-out hammer ride, followed directly by two
hours of competitive ultimate frisbe... I overdid it a bit!

Stretching def would have helped, I should have done it, and i'm sorry I didn't now. Nice that my
muscles are the things that get tired now instead of my lungs!

Jon Bond

Michael Dart said:

"Alan McClure" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2KoPa.31528$H17.9527@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

Well, I'm trying to figure out what the likely culprit is because lately--past week or two--my
lower back muscles have been fatiguing fairly quickly during rides. I first noticed it during the,
up to that point,

snip

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wonder if anyone might have had a similar experience. As it stands, I'm just going to keep
trying to ride a little longer everyday, but I hope

that

Quoted message said:

I can eventually ride longer than 1 hour, at which point the rest of me is not even slightly
tired. I wonder, does anyone have a photo of good

riding

Quoted message said:

posture. I'm fairly certain that I ride correctly, but maybe not, and I haven't been able to find
a photo specifically for the purpose of showing good riding posture (for the loser back).

Thanks as always,

Alan McClure
--
Alan McClure

As previously mentioned stretching is always a good idea before and after riding. You may also
consider working the 'front' or abdominal muscles to help support your torso. These muscles don't
get worked at all from cycling but are very helpful in maintaining good posture on the bike and
will take some of the load off your lower back. Plus a strong core muscle group is quite helpful
in maintaining control of the bike in situations where you need to pull off a move like a wheelie
drop or recovering from a 'tweaked' (slipped or deflected) wheel. Oh and there is a 'stretch' you
can do on your bike. When the going gets smooth get up off the saddle and bend your body toward
the stem and straighten your arms. It doesn't so much stretch your back muscles but relieves the
tension on them for a bit which seems to help.

Mike

I've had similar problems. Crunches (situps) helped a lot. A flakey doctor I went to for back pain
once had one good bit of advice and a demonstration. He said if your abdominal muscles are weak,
your body is only supported along your back (spine). He used a flat piece of paper as a model-hard
to make it stand up vertically, wants to flop over. Strengthening the abdominal muscles is like
taking the paper and rolling it into a tube-much stronger and able to not only stand up, but
withstand a lot more bending force than the flat sheet. Do crunches without anyone/thing holding
your feet. Otherwise you end up working muscles that can make things worse. I do these after riding
while everything is still warmed up, it also helps me stretch my lower back. Don't do 200 the first
day and not be able to sneeze for a week without writhing in agony (don't ask me how I know). Also,
when I stretch before a ride, I'll ride very easily for a few minutes to warm/loosen things up. I
prefer to stretch after riding. Doubt it matters much as long as you do it some time.

Look at how experienced riders sit on their bikes (the LBS may or may not help-like usenet). Tune
in the Tour coverage to see how they ride. Copy the average as a good starting point. Take
ibuprofen! Makes it feel better and (according to lots of docs) decreases inflamation helping
healing. Good Luck.

Cheers, Shawn

Alan McClure said:

Well, I'm trying to figure out what the likely culprit is because lately--past week or two--my
lower back muscles have been fatiguing fairly quickly during rides.

No one mentioned standing up for a bit. If I do a lot of climbing, say more than a couple of hours
seated, my back gives out. The solution I found was to grab 3 more gears, stand and turn slow steady
RPMs for a while. It uses totally different muscles, your butt, calves and triceps will bear the
brunt of it. You can kind of balance your upper body on your bars so that your back isn't taking any
strain at all except for terrain adjustment maneuvers. There's a sweet spot in your forward/backward
body position where you can rest while standing a turning a slow cadence. Also, when you sit and
spin, think about tightening your upper back/shoulders a bit and leaning forward. At least for me,
it seems like I can work my upper back to take some of the strain off the lower.

YMMV

-Bruce

Thanks guys. I also decided to switch out my flat bar for a riser bar that I have laying around and
ride with that for a few days to see if it makes any difference. That reminds me, this may be a
simple question, but what the hell difference is there between having a riser bar, or a stem that
has more of an inclined angle to raise the flat bar up? It doesn't seem to me, that there would be
any difference, but I'm sure I'm wrong, or why would riser bars even exist. Anyway, I'll see if I
can work on these stretches etc. and let you know if it works.

Ooh, by the way, I just got my Thomson seat post today after stripping the saddle angle adjustment
on a simple aluminum post. My LBS subtracted the price of the original post from the Thomson, so I
got it for cheaper. I am expecting this thing to last mem awhile.

A.

"Alan McClure" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YwCPa.36017$N7.3905@sccrnsc03...

Quoted message said:

Thanks guys. I also decided to switch out my flat bar for a riser bar

that

Quoted message said:

I have laying around and ride with that for a few days to see if it makes any difference. That
reminds me, this may be a simple question, but what the hell difference is there between having a
riser bar, or a stem that

has

Quoted message said:

more of an inclined angle to raise the flat bar up? It doesn't seem to

me,

Quoted message said:

that there would be any difference, but I'm sure I'm wrong, or why would riser bars even exist.
Anyway, I'll see if I can work on these stretches etc. and let you know if it works.

No difference other than riser bars look 'Tres Moto'. ;^)

Quoted message said:

Ooh, by the way, I just got my Thomson seat post today after stripping the saddle angle adjustment
on a simple aluminum post. My LBS subtracted the price of the original post from the Thomson, so I
got it for cheaper. I

am

Quoted message said:

expecting this thing to last mem awhile.

If you can break a Thomson my helmet's off to ya!

Mike - an that'd be a fullface.

This is a frequent problem for cyclists. As a roadie who also rides a mtb, I take 3-4 hour rides
with relatively few position changes. My back bugs me, of course.

I'm not sure if it's muscles in my case, or ligaments. But muscle strengthening should help either
way. Core exercises, back and abs, are great advice. I've been beating on mine for months but I
still have back pain and stiffness. It's not debillitating so I'm not too concerned.

One other thing, check your hip flexor length. Cyclists frequently have short/tight hip flexors,
which can increase back strain. Lie on the floor and bring one knee hard to your chest. Your
straight leg should be able to rest completely on the floor unless you hip flexors are tight (or
hamstrings and calves are especially beefy). Mine are border-line.

Stretching can be done by either an extended quadricep stretch (heel to butt, either standing or
lying on your back, watch for knee strain in extreme positions), or a lunge position with a vertical
or leaned-back torso. You should really feel the stretch in the hip on the side of your rear leg.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Quoted message said:

"Alan McClure" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YwCPa.36017$N7.3905@sccrnsc03...

Quoted message said:

Thanks guys. I also decided to switch out my flat bar for a riser bar

that

Quoted message said:

I have laying around and ride with that for a few days to see if it makes any difference. That
reminds me, this may be a simple question, but what the hell difference is there between having
a riser bar, or a stem that

has

Quoted message said:

more of an inclined angle to raise the flat bar up? It doesn't seem to

me,

Quoted message said:

that there would be any difference, but I'm sure I'm wrong, or why would riser bars even exist.
Anyway, I'll see if I can work on these stretches etc. and let you know if it works.

Quoted message said:

No difference other than riser bars look 'Tres Moto'. ;^)

Mike - an that'd be a fullface.

Actually, there is another difference. All the risers I've seen, and currently use, have a sweep to
them. So, they're swept back and down a little. Slight rotations of the bar can help with
positioning and provide far more adjustment possibilities than a flat bar.
--
Slacker - but I do like the Moto look

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks guys. I also decided to switch out my flat bar for a riser bar

that

Quoted message said:

I have laying around and ride with that for a few days to see if it makes any difference. That
reminds me, this may be a simple question, but what the hell difference is there between
having a riser bar, or a stem that

has

Quoted message said:

more of an inclined angle to raise the flat bar up? It doesn't seem to

me,

Quoted message said:

that there would be any difference, but I'm sure I'm wrong, or why would riser bars even
exist. Anyway, I'll see if I can work on these stretches etc. and let you know if it works.

Quoted message said:

No difference other than riser bars look 'Tres Moto'. ;^)

Mike - an that'd be a fullface.

Actually, there is another difference. All the risers I've seen, and currently use, have a sweep
to them. So, they're swept back and down a little. Slight rotations of the bar can help with
positioning and provide far more adjustment possibilities than a flat bar.
--
Slacker - but I do like the Moto look

Hey, what the heck cambriabike.comlp composites carbon flat bar.htmOpen ↗ When did flat
stop meaning "flat?"
--
Slacker

[story of back pain, and daily rides]

I'm curious about this story because it (and other threads) talk about riding every day. I'm not in
shape for that now (I know my back and neck couldn't take it, among other things), and I'm not sure
I ever have been. Even when I was riding a lot (for me), it was a couple 2 or 3 hour rides during
the week, and a 3-4 hour ride on the weekend. I felt like I needed those off days in-between, and
maybe should have taken more to keep from tearing down my legs (I'm a skinny guy).

Right now I do a ride, 2 off days, another ride .. repeat. I'm thinking that I should make the rides
harder (go faster, push toward failure), rather than more frequent. I'm thinking that will help me
bulk up my legs.

(Right now I do about 1:30 moving time on a loop, and 0:05 stopped time.)

I'm curious to hear other people's strategies. I know every "body" is different, but I'd like to
hear what kind of rides you do when you go to a daily schedule, and what it does for you.

Thanks.

"higb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[story of back pain, and daily rides]

I'm curious about this story because it (and other threads) talk about riding every day. I'm not
in shape for that now (I know my back and neck couldn't take it, among other things), and I'm not
sure I ever have been. Even when I was riding a lot (for me), it was a couple 2 or 3 hour rides
during the week, and a 3-4 hour ride on the weekend. I felt like I needed those off days
in-between, and maybe should have taken more to keep from tearing down my legs (I'm a skinny guy).

Right now I do a ride, 2 off days, another ride .. repeat. I'm thinking that I should make the
rides harder (go faster, push toward failure), rather than more frequent. I'm thinking that will
help me bulk up my legs.

(Right now I do about 1:30 moving time on a loop, and 0:05 stopped time.)

I'm curious to hear other people's strategies. I know every "body" is different, but I'd like to
hear what kind of rides you do when you go to a daily schedule, and what it does for you.

Thanks.

That is a good question that I have been thinking about(other peoples ride schedules). Maybe you
should repost this thread as a new thread. I think it'll get buried here where no one can see it.
But, as an addition, today after and hour and twenty minutes, I had no back fatigue at all. So, I'm
feeling pretty good, and this is after pushing myself pretty hard too. The thing about daily riding
for me is trying to lose weight. I try to get in at least 1-2 hours of riding daily and this is to
knock off the 15 pounds I've gained over the past year. I would probably ride longer every other day
if I wasn't as concerned with getting that exercise every day. Anyway, as a bonus, I'm getting a lot
better technically, etc, so things are working out. However, I did notice that after a three day
break when I was sick, I felt absolutely amazing, so rest is obviously important in terms of
recovery and performance.

A.

higb said:

[story of back pain, and daily rides]

I'm curious about this story because it (and other threads) talk about riding every day. I'm not
in shape for that now (I know my back and neck couldn't take it, among other things), and I'm not
sure I ever have been. Even when I was riding a lot (for me), it was a couple 2 or 3 hour rides
during the week, and a 3-4 hour ride on the weekend. I felt like I needed those off days
in-between, and maybe should have taken more to keep from tearing down my legs (I'm a skinny guy).

Right now I do a ride, 2 off days, another ride .. repeat. I'm thinking that I should make the
rides harder (go faster, push toward failure), rather than more frequent. I'm thinking that will
help me bulk up my legs.

(Right now I do about 1:30 moving time on a loop, and 0:05 stopped time.)

I'm curious to hear other people's strategies. I know every "body" is different, but I'd like to
hear what kind of rides you do when you go to a daily schedule, and what it does for you.

Thanks.

I've decided to take it easier on myself lately than I have in the past. Thus, I don't try to ride
every day. I'd like to build up to that condition eventually, but it's hard to balance work and
recovery. Those who do ride every day generally intersperse easy days with hard ones. My goal is to
reach a point where a 3 hour ride isn't all that much, and I can choose to ride hard or easy the
following day. I'm almost there, but saddle sores have caused me to take a few days off. I hope they
go away in that time, because the alternatives to riding are limited. I don't want to hike much
because my legs are definitely in cycling mode and hiking beats the hell out of them.

Since I live close to the Olympic speed skating oval, and its ice is back in, I'll be doing some
speed skating now. I went last night and it was deceptively hard. The place is so cold you don't
sweat, but my legs sure felt it. Going back outside into the 99-degree heat felt great. Now, I just
need to learn how to skate. :-)

If we count just riding, I exercise roughly five days per week, and I work in a gym as an
instructor. Cross-training is valuable even for a racer.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

higb said:

[story of back pain, and daily rides]

I'm curious about this story because it (and other threads) talk about riding every day. I'm not
in shape for that now (I know my back and neck couldn't take it, among other things), and I'm not
sure I ever have been. Even when I was riding a lot (for me), it was a couple 2 or 3 hour rides
during the week, and a 3-4 hour ride on the weekend. I felt like I needed those off days
in-between, and maybe should have taken more to keep from tearing down my legs (I'm a skinny guy).

Right now I do a ride, 2 off days, another ride .. repeat. I'm thinking that I should make the
rides harder (go faster, push toward failure), rather than more frequent. I'm thinking that will
help me bulk up my legs.

(Right now I do about 1:30 moving time on a loop, and 0:05 stopped time.)

I'm curious to hear other people's strategies. I know every "body" is different, but I'd like to
hear what kind of rides you do when you go to a daily schedule, and what it does for you.

Thanks.

I can ride every day if I alternate bikes. I have a '97 Homegrown (F/S) and a '99 Trek recumbent
(used only on roads and rail-to-trails). Mountain biking is more of a full-body workout - much
more strenuous. Taking the 'bent out the next day actually feels like it helps work out any
residual soreness.

Kathleen

"Kathleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

higb said:

[story of back pain, and daily rides]

I'm curious about this story because it (and other threads) talk about riding every day. I'm
not in shape for that now (I know my back and neck couldn't take it, among other things), and
I'm not sure I ever have been. Even when I was riding a lot (for me), it was a couple 2 or 3
hour rides during the week, and a 3-4 hour ride on the weekend. I felt like I needed those off
days in-between, and maybe should have taken more to keep from tearing down my legs (I'm a
skinny guy).

Right now I do a ride, 2 off days, another ride .. repeat. I'm thinking that I should make the
rides harder (go faster, push toward failure), rather than more frequent. I'm thinking that will
help me bulk up my legs.

(Right now I do about 1:30 moving time on a loop, and 0:05 stopped

time.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm curious to hear other people's strategies. I know every "body" is different, but I'd like to
hear what kind of rides you do when you go to a daily schedule, and what it does for you.

Thanks.

I can ride every day if I alternate bikes. I have a '97 Homegrown (F/S) and a '99 Trek recumbent
(used only on roads and rail-to-trails). Mountain biking is more of a full-body workout - much
more strenuous. Taking the 'bent out the next day actually feels like it helps work out any
residual soreness.

Kathleen

Do you find any physical issues occurring in particular if you try to push it and mountain bike
every day? Back, neck, etc. I have been trying to switch things up lately and give myself either a
day in between, or at least ride in the morning one day and the evening the next. I think things are
getting better, but I'll have to wait a little longer to say for sure. By the way, do you know off
hand what the starting range is on recumbent prices. I have a feeling that they are more expensive
than I would like, but that seems like a good idea to get out and ride, while resting my back,
etc--although not nearly as fun.

Alan

Alan McClure said:

"Kathleen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

higb said:

[story of back pain, and daily rides]

I'm curious about this story because it (and other threads) talk about riding every day. I'm
not in shape for that now (I know my back and neck couldn't take it, among other things), and
I'm not sure I ever have been. Even when I was riding a lot (for me), it was a couple 2 or 3
hour rides during the week, and a 3-4 hour ride on the weekend. I felt like I needed those off
days in-between, and maybe should have taken more to keep from tearing down my legs (I'm a
skinny guy).

Right now I do a ride, 2 off days, another ride .. repeat. I'm thinking that I should make the
rides harder (go faster, push toward failure), rather than more frequent. I'm thinking that will
help me bulk up my legs.

(Right now I do about 1:30 moving time on a loop, and 0:05 stopped

time.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm curious to hear other people's strategies. I know every "body" is different, but I'd like to
hear what kind of rides you do when you go to a daily schedule, and what it does for you.

Thanks.

I can ride every day if I alternate bikes. I have a '97 Homegrown (F/S) and a '99 Trek recumbent
(used only on roads and rail-to-trails). Mountain biking is more of a full-body workout - much
more strenuous. Taking the 'bent out the next day actually feels like it helps work out any
residual soreness.

Kathleen

Do you find any physical issues occurring in particular if you try to push it and mountain bike
every day?

Yeah. Cumulative fatigue and soreness. If we take a mtb trip, and I ride hard every day for 4 or 5
days, I can do it, but I *have* to get to bed early (no staying up late partying), and if I can
arrange for an afternoon siesta, even better. And I've got to eat and drink - no skipping meals. And
by "drink", I mean water, and lots of it. By the end of it, I'm munching ibuprofen like jelly beans
and pretty much everything hurts. Neck, knees, shoulders. A two or three day rest period afterwards
will pretty much put everything to rights, though.

Back, neck, etc. I have been trying to

Quoted message said:

switch things up lately and give myself either a day in between, or at least ride in the morning
one day and the evening the next. I think things are getting better, but I'll have to wait a
little longer to say for sure. By the way, do you know off hand what the starting range is on
recumbent prices. I have a feeling that they are more expensive than I would like, but that seems
like a good idea to get out and ride, while resting my back, etc--although not nearly as fun.

It's been a while since I've priced 'bents, but you can generally expect to pay more for a recumbent
than you would a comparable spec'd diamond frame bike. The biggest problem with buying a recumbent
is finding a shop that carries the model you're interested in so you can try them out. Check out
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbents for more info.

Kathleen

RE/

Quoted message said:

I'm curious to hear other people's strategies. I know every "body" is different, but I'd like to
hear what kind of rides you do when you go to a daily schedule, and what it does for you.

I strive for "daily", but it usually works out to 3-4 days per week.

My rides are 2-3 hours, but not very intense.

My back only bothers me when I ride my hardtail - and not that often. No problem with the FS. I
*think* they're set up exactly the same dimension-wise and the hardtail has a ThudBuster sus
seatpost - so I'm sort of mystified....
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

higb said:

[story of back pain, and daily rides]

I'm curious to hear other people's strategies. I know every "body" is different, but I'd like to
hear what kind of rides you do when you go to a daily schedule, and what it does for you.

I have recently (past 4 months) been back into the bike riding regime. My goal is to get to the
point that 20+ miles is not a problem. I have been commuting to and from work each day (14 miles
round trip) and then take off on long excursions on my days off (3 or 4 times a week). I have been
riding bicycles off and on (between medical problems) for the past 20 or more years.

I have had three back surgeries, and so I do have some back pain, but it has continued to get less
and less. I contribute a lot of the lessening of the back pain to my losing about 40 pounds since
Thanksgiving (currently at about 230#). My problem seems to be from all the scar material left in my
back. However, my back is not fused, but it is not very limber anymore either.

I have tried several bicycles, including a 1974 Puegot Touring bike (which causes me considerable
pain on long trips) and my main bike is a Kona Hahanna (1996 vintage). I choose to ride the Kona
because it is comfortable, it is a rigid with the P2 fork, and no real suspension other than the
tires. I have 2.1 knobbies on a set of good rims for trails and a long dirt road around a lake that
is about 2 1/2 minles from my house, makes about 14 to 22 miles round trip depending on how I ride
it, and then have 1.75 metro tires on a cheap set of rims for communting. (I know this sounds a
little backward).

I found that for the city commutes, it has helped my back to have the gearing a little lower than
for the ones I use for the trails.

I have also tried to ride a hybrid that my wife owns, and it causes me a great deal of discomfort
due to sitting more in the upright position. I think that the Mountain bike helps out my back
because of the angle, and the fact that the Mountain bike also fits me quite well.

I am looking at getting a Full SUspension bike sometime soon, but am trying to be sure the one I get
fits me quite well.

I want to say that I have learned a lot from this groups postings, and look forward to reading it
much more in the future.

Gazmuth