TTT riding qs

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I imagine few readers/posters here have ever ridden a TTT. It's an essentially professional-level
event, isn't it?

When riding, how hard does the lead rider pull? My thinking is that they go all-out, since the
interval:recovery is 1:8. But in studying up on paceline riding, I learned that the new leader
should not pull extremely hard, in order to let the just-toasted former leader catch on the tail.
Given the length of a nine-rider train, is the trailing-back portion of the ride long enough for a
pro to recover enough to latch back on?

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in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Think paceline. You shouldn't try and ride off the front or anything. Keep the pace high and pull
through smoothly. Same as a team pursuit...

If you're going to accelerate, do it smoothly.

Mike

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I imagine few readers/posters here have ever ridden a TTT. It's an essentially professional-level
event, isn't it?

When riding, how hard does the lead rider pull? My thinking is that they go all-out, since the
interval:recovery is 1:8. But in studying up on paceline riding, I learned that the new leader
should not pull extremely hard, in order to let the just-toasted former leader catch on the tail.
Given the length of a nine-rider train, is the trailing-back portion of the ride long enough for a
pro to recover enough to latch back on?

If conditions are the same the the pace stays the same. When the leading rider pulls off, he soft
pedals so that he uses the minumum amount of energy in getting to the back of the pace line. This
means he will slow down, but then accelerate slightly as he gets closer to the end. Ideally there
will be very little acceleration required as he pulls in behind the back rider. This is when the
lowest amount of power is required.

When the second rider becomes the lead rider (resulting from the previous leader pulling off) his
power requirement goes up only because he is now the first one in the wind and not because of any
acceleration.

This is the ideal, but there are a few designated riders that are stronger and although the plan is
that these riders take longer pulls rather than faster pulls, the reality is that these designated
riders have to adjust the pace slightly. For example, if the team manager reports that the pace
needs to go up, it is likely one of the designated riders that will do the acceleration when they
are leading.

You also asked "how hard do they go?" and possibly some of them will go "all out" for part of the
time trial, but since the objective is to go at a pace that allows at least some of the riders to
finish together, it is not really very often that the even the lead rider will be riding at his
maximum power. As the race gets closer to the finish, they will increase the pace and pulls at max
power will start to happen. Keep in mind that the course conditions and relative strength of each
athlete to one another will dictate who is pulling at their maximum. This is the point in the race
where teams will start to lose riders. They may lose weak riders or they may lose riders that have
cooked themselves.

Quoted message said:

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I imagine few readers/posters here have ever ridden a TTT. It's an essentially professional-level
event, isn't it?

In collegiate racing it is common.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I imagine few readers/posters here have ever ridden a TTT. It's an essentially professional-level
event, isn't it?

When riding, how hard does the lead rider pull? My thinking is that they go all-out, since the
interval:recovery is 1:8. But in studying up on paceline riding, I learned that the new leader
should not pull extremely hard, in order to let the just-toasted former leader catch on the tail.
Given the length of a nine-rider train, is the trailing-back portion of the ride long enough for a
pro to recover enough to latch back on?

Some questions answered here:
cyclingnews.comtour.phpOpen ↗ 1#4

cheers, Jeff

Raptor said:

I imagine few readers/posters here have ever ridden a TTT. It's an essentially professional-level
event, isn't it?

When riding, how hard does the lead rider pull? My thinking is that

Robert Millar once described a TdF TTT as "160 sprints".

Jeff Jones jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com said:

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When riding, how hard does the lead rider pull? My thinking is that they go all-out, since the
interval:recovery is 1:8. But in studying up on paceline riding, I learned that the new leader
should not pull extremely hard, in order to let the just-toasted former leader catch on the tail.
Given the length of a nine-rider train, is the trailing-back portion of the ride long enough for
a pro to recover enough to latch back on?

Some questions answered here:
cyclingnews.comtour.phpOpen ↗

Like Michele says, you modulate effort through the length of the pull. I was taught to do this by
counting pedal revs. One of the things you have to pay attention to is the length of your teammate's
pulls so you can get an idea when people are flagging. If people are starting to short their pulls
and you can manage it, you start going longer to compensate. I've only done this as a four man, I'd
imagine it is harder with nine guys.

Load balancing in a TTT is one of the harder things to get right. It is never the case that all team
members are at the same strength and blowing up weaker members is a lock if you don't do it right.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Like Michele says, you modulate effort through the length of the pull. I was taught to do this by
counting pedal revs. One of the things you have to pay attention to is the length of your
teammate's pulls so you can get an idea when people are flagging. If people are starting to short
their pulls and you can manage it, you start going longer to compensate. I've only done this as a
four man, I'd imagine it is harder with nine guys.

Load balancing in a TTT is one of the harder things to get right. It is never the case that all
team members are at the same strength and blowing up weaker members is a lock if you don't do
it right.

It is well known that the key to going fast in a TTT is for all the riders to synchronize
their pedals.

Troll.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Like Michele says, you modulate effort through the length of the

pull.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was taught to do this by counting pedal revs. One of the things

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have to pay attention to is the length of your teammate's pulls so

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

can get an idea when people are flagging. If people are starting

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

short their pulls and you can manage it, you start going longer to compensate. I've only done
this as a four man, I'd imagine it is harder with nine guys.

Load balancing in a TTT is one of the harder things to get right.

It

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is never the case that all team members are at the same strength

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

blowing up weaker members is a lock if you don't do it right.

It is well known that the key to going fast in a TTT is for all the

riders

Quoted message said:

to synchronize their pedals.

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I imagine few readers/posters here have ever ridden a TTT. It's an essentially professional-level
event, isn't it?

There are regularly TTTs in collegiate racing and there are a few in the northeast US. I'm doing one
in a couple weeks.

Quoted message said:

When riding, how hard does the lead rider pull? My thinking is that they go all-out, since the
interval:recovery is 1:8.

The most important thing in a TTT is to be smooth and consistently fast but not surgey. Like any
time trial, the ideal pace is the hardest that can be maintained for the distance. So it's
definitely not "all out" though by the end of the event the effort is maximal. Certainly the effort
is higher than an individual TT of the same distance.

JT

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Quoted message said:

It is well known that the key to going fast in a TTT is for all the riders to synchronize
their pedals.

I think you underestimate the effect of sychronized breathing. I don't know why this is so often
overlooked. The cumulative effect of having 7 people blowing on you at once is inestimable.

Gee, about 100 different ways of phrasing that last sentence ocurred. They were all fun.

Raptor wrote...

Quoted message said:

When riding, how hard does the lead rider pull? My thinking is that they go all-out, since the
interval:recovery is 1:8.

Not exactly. Near the end of the stage, I measured USPs pulling times. It was something like this
Ekimov 30" Armstrong 40" Hincapie and others 1'

The goal is to keep a constant pace. More powerful riders pull longer, not harder. But, just in
case, Ekimov pulled just before LA, and Hincapie afterwards, to avoid sudden accelerations, much
more painful for the climbers.

Jenko

Jenko said:

Raptor wrote...

Quoted message said:

When riding, how hard does the lead rider pull? My thinking is that they go all-out, since the
interval:recovery is 1:8.

Not exactly. Near the end of the stage, I measured USPs pulling times. It was something like this
Ekimov 30" Armstrong 40" Hincapie and others 1'

The goal is to keep a constant pace. More powerful riders pull longer, not harder. But, just in
case, Ekimov pulled just before LA, and Hincapie afterwards, to avoid sudden accelerations, much
more painful for the climbers.

Jenko

Floyd Landis, the caboose in the USPS train as it crossed the line, looked completely toasted.
Whether he was just hanging on for dear life or had just finished his own pull (I'm not interested
enough to have saved my tape and watched it yet again), I don't know.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.