Traffic engineers: braindead?

Following on from Rich's message. . .

Complain to Chief Executive of whatever authority and ask for a proper
explanation. Mark it "COMPLAINT".

Quoted message said:

I had the misfortune to go to the local cycle forum last night, and I asked
a question about why the traffic lights on a roundabout couldn't be fitted
with louvres so that they could only be seen by the drivers in the lanes
they applied to. The response from the traffic engineers was that this
couldn't be done for safety reasons because drivers might slow up as they
approached the lights.

<sound of head hitting brick wall, repeated until unconciousness>

Pardon me, but isn't that what the Highway Code says you should do as you
approach traffic lights? i.e. be prepared to stop?

Why the F**k are we paying cretins like this? and how the hell did they get
jobs with any kind of responsibility in the first place?

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the statuette business went bust
[email hidden]
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

Rich said:

I had the misfortune to go to the local cycle forum last night, and I
asked a question about why the traffic lights on a roundabout
couldn't be fitted with louvres so that they could only be seen by
the drivers in the lanes they applied to. The response from the
traffic engineers was that this couldn't be done for safety reasons
because drivers might slow up as they approached the lights.

<sound of head hitting brick wall, repeated until unconciousness>

Pardon me, but isn't that what the Highway Code says you should do as
you approach traffic lights? i.e. be prepared to stop?

Unless the lights are amber or red there should not be any need to slow down
for each set if they are correctly timed on the amber phase, in relation to
the prevailing speed limit.

Quoted message said:

Unless the lights are amber or red there should not be any need to
slow down for each set if they are correctly timed on the amber phase,
in relation to the prevailing speed limit.

I want to drive where you drive.

"Adrian Boliston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Unless the lights are amber or red there should not be any need to slow
down for each set if they are correctly timed on the amber phase, in
relation to the prevailing speed limit.

Amber periods are not set according to the speed limit.

"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had the misfortune to go to the local cycle forum last night, and I asked
a question about why the traffic lights on a roundabout couldn't be fitted
with louvres so that they could only be seen by the drivers in the lanes
they applied to. The response from the traffic engineers was that this
couldn't be done for safety reasons because drivers might slow up as they
approached the lights.

<sound of head hitting brick wall, repeated until unconciousness>

Pardon me, but isn't that what the Highway Code says you should do as you
approach traffic lights? i.e. be prepared to stop?

Why the F**k are we paying cretins like this? and how the hell did they
get jobs with any kind of responsibility in the first place?

Having worked with highway engineers, the only way to understand them is to
realise that they are Not Of This Planet and are alien life-forms. It helps
to keep own sanity when dealing with them if you keep this at forefront of
mind.

Cheers, helen s

Quoted message said:

--
cheers

Richard Burton

Adrian Boliston said:

Unless the lights are amber or red there should not be any need to slow down
for each set if they are correctly timed on the amber phase, in relation to
the prevailing speed limit.

Except the length of the amber phase is not related to the prevailing
speed limit. In fact a review accepted that it was impossible in many
cases to stop within the amber phase standard period from the prevailing
speed limit. The solution? Not to lengthen the amber phase but to
lengthen the period at which both lights were red to allow those that
couldn't stop on amber to cross the junction safely on red!!!!

--
Tony

"A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought" Lord
Peter Wimsey (Dorothy L. Sayers)

Mark Hewitt said:

"Adrian Boliston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Unless the lights are amber or red there should not be any need to slow
down for each set if they are correctly timed on the amber phase, in
relation to the prevailing speed limit.

Amber periods are not set according to the speed limit.

He means the period between the last set of lights turning green, and the set
under discussion turning amber. If these are set 'correctly', someone who is
exceeding the speed limit will be caught at every light.

This cannot, of course, work in both directions on a stretch of road with
multiple juntion controlling lights.

The main problem with this phased approach (apart from the fact that they often
seem to get it wrong) is that it only takes one car driven by someone who
doesn't realise what's going on to screw up the whole system.

By exceeding the limit, he'll have to come to a stop (or slow down dramatically)
at each set of lights, ensuring that following traffic doesn't benefit from the
careful phsaing.

Quoted message said:

fitted
with louvres so that they could only be seen by the drivers in the

lanes

Quoted message said:

they applied to. The response from the traffic engineers was that

this

Quoted message said:

couldn't be done for safety reasons

Total bollocks! (pardon me) We have just that on a 4 lane monster where
I live.

BigRAb

in message <[email hidden]>, Rich

(') said:

I had the misfortune to go to the local cycle forum last night, and I
asked a question about why the traffic lights on a roundabout couldn't
be fitted with louvres so that they could only be seen by the drivers
in the lanes
they applied to. The response from the traffic engineers was that
this couldn't be done for safety reasons because drivers might slow up
as they approached the lights.

<sound of head hitting brick wall, repeated until unconciousness>

Pardon me, but isn't that what the Highway Code says you should do as
you
approach traffic lights? i.e. be prepared to stop?

Why the F**k are we paying cretins like this? and how the hell did
they get jobs with any kind of responsibility in the first place?

I drove home from Edinburgh last night. Around Edinburgh (where I saw a
number of cycle commuters in heavy traffic), there were marked (dotted
line, no coloured tarmac) cycle lanes along many of the main roads, but
the cycle lane terminated about 20 metres before each roundabout and
started again immediately after each roundabout. As I came around the
Dumfries bypass (where I didn't see any cycle commuters, although I
know there are a few) I noted that there were no cycle lanes along the
main road but that marked (dotted line, red tarmac) cycle lanes started
about 20 metres before each roundabout and continued around the
perimeter of each roundabout (interrupted, of course, by the roads
entering the roundabout) to terminate immediately after the roundabout.

Explanations, please? (apart from 'braindead' or 'from another planet'😉.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; An enamorata is for life, not just for weekends.

Rich said:

I had the misfortune to go to the local cycle forum last night, and I asked
a question about why the traffic lights on a roundabout couldn't be fitted
with louvres so that they could only be seen by the drivers in the lanes
they applied to.

Cycling to Durham station last night I went across a junction that has
been redeveloped. My approach road now has an ASL---which is to be
welcomed. What they have done is to add the ASL beyond the original stop
line, in fact it encroaches over the studs that mark the pedestrian
crossing. This means that once you are in the box you can't see the
lights. No worries, there are light on the opposite side of the
junction. Except there is just one set of lights and from the ASL on and
upright there are directly behind a street sign!! So, now cyclists may
get cars pipping them for not going through a green.

I will be writing to the cycling officer.

Colin

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In fact a review accepted that it was impossible in many
cases to stop within the amber phase standard period from the prevailing
speed limit.

Perhaps I've misunderstood - but this strikes me as a complete non-problem -
surely the whole point of the amber phase is to provide a period where those
too close to the junction to stop may continue in the the junction with
care, with everyone else stopping?

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Explanations, please? (apart from 'braindead' or 'from another planet'😉.

There are no logical explanations apart from "braindead" and "from another
planet"

Cheers, helen s

Quoted message said:

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; An enamorata is for life, not just for weekends.

Simon Brooke said:

I drove home from Edinburgh last night. Around Edinburgh (where
I saw a number of cycle commuters in heavy traffic), there were
marked (dotted line, no coloured tarmac) cycle lanes along many
of the main roads, but the cycle lane terminated about 20 metres
before each roundabout and started again immediately after each
roundabout. As I came around the Dumfries bypass (where I didn't
see any cycle commuters, although I know there are a few) I noted
that there were no cycle lanes along the main road but that marked
(dotted line, red tarmac) cycle lanes started about 20 metres
before each roundabout and continued around the perimeter of each
roundabout (interrupted, of course, by the roads entering the
roundabout) to terminate immediately after the roundabout.

A pity they don't combine the best elements of both styles so that the
main carriageway has no cycle lane, then starting at 20 metres from the
roundabout a section of no cycle lane, with no cycle lane on the
roundabout itself, to be followed 20 metres from the roundabout exit
with no cycle lane.

--
Dave...

On 12/5/05 11:32 am, in article
[email hidden], "dkahn400"

Quoted message said:

A pity they don't combine the best elements of both styles so that the
main carriageway has no cycle lane, then starting at 20 metres from the
roundabout a section of no cycle lane, with no cycle lane on the
roundabout itself, to be followed 20 metres from the roundabout exit
with no cycle lane.

A point of correction. That is not 'no cycle lane', that is a full width
shared vehicle cycle lane, of which there are hundreds of thousands of miles
around the UK..

Technically they are know as Routes Optimised to Avoid Designated Space, or
ROADS for short.

...d

"dkahn400" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A pity they don't combine the best elements of both styles so that the
main carriageway has no cycle lane, then starting at 20 metres from the
roundabout a section of no cycle lane, with no cycle lane on the
roundabout itself, to be followed 20 metres from the roundabout exit
with no cycle lane.

--
Dave...

Me too, nicely put Dave.

Nathaniel Porter said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In fact a review accepted that it was impossible in many
cases to stop within the amber phase standard period from the prevailing
speed limit.

Perhaps I've misunderstood - but this strikes me as a complete non-problem -
surely the whole point of the amber phase is to provide a period where those
too close to the junction to stop may continue in the the junction with
care, with everyone else stopping?

That is fine but on many lights the stopping time for cars travelling
within the speed limit is greater than the amber time which means by
default some cars will cross the lights on red. Its a recognised
problem but one which is solved by lengthening the double red phase and
not the amber phase, thereby acknowledging that some vehicles will break
the law because the amber period is insufficient.

--
Tony

"A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought" Lord
Peter Wimsey (Dorothy L. Sayers)

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That is fine but on many lights the stopping time for cars travelling
within the speed limit is greater than the amber time which means by
default some cars will cross the lights on red. Its a recognised problem
but one which is solved by lengthening the double red phase and not the
amber phase, thereby acknowledging that some vehicles will break the law
because the amber period is insufficient.

--
Tony

"A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought" Lord
Peter Wimsey (Dorothy L. Sayers)

Shirley that is the wrong solution? I would have thought that the amber
period should be changed if necessary, which then allows strict
interpretation of red light rules and fines.

In article said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Explanations, please? (apart from 'braindead' or 'from another planet'😉.

There are no logical explanations apart from "braindead" and "from another
planet"

Having been not hit by a car this morning only because I was in the middle
of the lane not out towards the edge, I'm inclined to agree.
(Car entering from my left as I was in front of him stopped well over
where a cycle lane would have been.)

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Except the length of the amber phase is not related to the prevailing
speed limit. In fact a review accepted that it was impossible in many
cases to stop within the amber phase standard period from the prevailing
speed limit. The solution? Not to lengthen the amber phase but to
lengthen the period at which both lights were red to allow those that
couldn't stop on amber to cross the junction safely on red!!!!

But surely if the amber phase was increased so might the number of "amber
gamblers" thereby solving nothing.

Pete