Uphill TTs

palewin said:

Wondered if there are any specific differences in the approach (tactics) for an uphill TT versus the usual flat-to-rolling ones. The High Point Hill Climb this weekend is 5.5 miles of climbing, I think the avg is about 6%, although a couple of ramps are 22%. Since it seems easier to go anaerobic climbing than on the flat, is starting out a bit too fast especially bad, or just part of the game?

I am not an expert on pacing, but I have seen the following three advice several times in different sources.

1. Once you go anaerobic, you will not recover. Your metabolism switches from using fat to using "only" glycogen. It will not switch back.

2. Take it easy during the first 2-3 minutes. The most common mistake is to go out to hard during the first few minutes. You will pay for it during the rest of the race.

3. Plan to go faster during the second half of the race than in the first half.

_______
Aaberg

palewin said:

Wondered if there are any specific differences in the approach (tactics) for an uphill TT versus the usual flat-to-rolling ones. The High Point Hill Climb this weekend is 5.5 miles of climbing, I think the avg is about 6%, although a couple of ramps are 22%. Since it seems easier to go anaerobic climbing than on the flat, is starting out a bit too fast especially bad, or just part of the game?

Another advice is to ride the total course where you are totally exhausted at the end of it. It's like driving a car with just enough gas to reach your destination. Ride the course and see where the sections are where you should increase your effort to stay within you limits all the way to the end. Good luck.

I am doing that event this weekend, I rode the course last friday... It is not as bad as comming up the other size of the mtn...

do you use a heart rate monitor? i swear by it for time trial pacing, whatever the terrain, because once you have a reliable number for your threshold then you can work from that.

for example i seem to be able to hold 90% of max HR for an hour, and I know that at 93-94% is where I really start blowing irreversibly. so i acccellerate upto about 85% from the off, this allows some margin while my body is adjusting to the effort for the first couple of minutes, then take it to 90% and from then on just sort of bump it off 93% - either creeping up there and letting it fall to 90 again when i feel bad, or allowing 93-94 to put a bit more power down on steeper sections, etc.

i would ride an uphill tt the same. also concentrating on maintinaing a good cadence - if you really start to mash a big gear i think the value of the heart rate indicator is diminished as it just starts to deaden the legs directly.

Aaberg said:

I am not an expert on pacing, but I have seen the following three advice several times in different sources.

1. Once you go anaerobic, you will not recover. Your metabolism switches from using fat to using "only" glycogen. It will not switch back.

2. Take it easy during the first 2-3 minutes. The most common mistake is to go out to hard during the first few minutes. You will pay for it during the rest of the race.

3. Plan to go faster during the second half of the race than in the first half.

_______
Aaberg

I have to raise a coupla points here but without intending to start a flame war:

You can 'switch back' from an anaerobic state, the problem is it takes time and tempo. Once you hit anaerobia once your body will tend to reach it faster the next time, making it harder to avoid a second episode. So point 1 would be better stated as "Avoid anaerobia at all costs".

I would also contend that point 2 would not necessarily hold true if you have warmed up properly. Sure, it's still not a good idea to blast out of the blocks but you can still go hard and ramp up quickly to cruising speed and HR.

Negative splits take lots of practice to master.

-----------------

A hill is just a flat bit of road with a negative attitude.

eortiz said:

Another advice is to ride the total course where you are totally exhausted at the end of it. It's like driving a car with just enough gas to reach your destination. Ride the course and see where the sections are where you should increase your effort to stay within you limits all the way to the end. Good luck.

What suggestions do you have on a 2km hill of about 9%avg gradient?
Start at 85 for3/4 of the way then flat out to the end? The last bit has the 10 - 11% kick?

franco1 said:

What suggestions do you have on a 2km hill of about 9%avg gradient?
Start at 85 for3/4 of the way then flat out to the end? The last bit has the 10 - 11% kick?

it would depend on what you were aiming to do for that session and what you are doing before or after the climb.

ric_stern/RST said:

it would depend on what you were aiming to do for that session and what you are doing before or after the climb.

This is purely a hill time trial of 2km long. Not a training session.

franco1 said:

This is purely a hill time trial of 2km long. Not a training session.

so it's going to take a few minutes then (8-mins?). you're going to have to ride it pretty hard. i'd suggest riding it at 100% of the maximal effort you can sustain over the climb.

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

so it's going to take a few minutes then (8-mins?). you're going to have to ride it pretty hard. i'd suggest riding it at 100% of the maximal effort you can sustain over the climb.

Dead right. 2km climb is nothing in terms of time: go hard or stay at home!

If you can't sustain 95% of HRmax [edit: sorry, I generalised. That should have read at anaerobic threshold] for the whole climb and then power over the last little kick then there's something wrong. You need to ramp up to your climbing speed and HR, find a gear that lets you hold them at a comfortable cadence (tempo), and make sure you have a reserve gear left for the kick, just in case you need it.

The idea with TT's, whether flat or hillclimb, is to cross the line exhausted (puking is optional). It's making sure you don't bonk before the finish line that's the tricky bit. Comes with planning, training, and how you feel on the day.

rockmuncher said:

Dead right. 2km climb is nothing in terms of time: go hard or stay at home!

If you can't sustain 95% of HRmax [edit: sorry, I generalised. That should have read at anaerobic threshold] for the whole climb and then power over the last little kick then there's something wrong. You need to ramp up to your climbing speed and HR, find a gear that lets you hold them at a comfortable cadence (tempo), and make sure you have a reserve gear left for the kick, just in case you need it.

The idea with TT's, whether flat or hillclimb, is to cross the line exhausted (puking is optional). It's making sure you don't bonk before the finish line that's the tricky bit. Comes with planning, training, and how you feel on the day.

I agree totally with you as it is a t.t. afterall and you must be able to say I gave it all and then go puke.

Would you have any suggestions as to the other thread I posted on training for a 4 day race?

franco1 said:

What suggestions do you have on a 2km hill of about 9%avg gradient?
Start at 85 for3/4 of the way then flat out to the end? The last bit has the 10 - 11% kick?

Suggestions given by Ric and rockmuncher is correct. It really depends on your capability to ride the hill. In my case, I have ridden a 1.8 mile hill at 7-8% grade. I divided it in 3 sections At first I was rding the total distance at ~10 min. Then as I got stronger, my personal best, I brought it down to 8min. 45 sec. (I know, not as strong as other riders 🙁 ) But like I said I divided in 3 sections and I know where and how much to push at each section that when I reach the top, that's it for me! It would be nice if you have enough days to try the course before the race and see how you should ride it on THE day.

I do use a HRM and, I too, base the hills I ride on where my HR is and how much further I have to ride up the hill (or home). Sort of like my "gas tank gauge".