Is Phil Ligget Blind?

"Danny Callen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm just wondering if Phil saw the same thing I did in the crash

yesterday.

Quoted message said:

He kept referring to the crash being the fault of the Colfidis rider. WHAH!!?? I watched the crash
over and over a few times and it looked

pretty

Quoted message said:

clearly that the Kelme rider just pulled out of his pedal. Did I miss something or is Phil blind??

Danny Callen

You missed something... You can see the Kelme rider is in a rear wheel slide before his foot comes
out. And before that you can see the Cofidis rider come across in front of him...

Wade

Thanks Wade. Must be my damn Tivo...!

Danny Callen

"Wade Summers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:07qOa.36435$ZE.33650@lakeread05...

Quoted message said:

"Danny Callen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm just wondering if Phil saw the same thing I did in the crash

yesterday.

Quoted message said:

He kept referring to the crash being the fault of the Colfidis rider. WHAH!!?? I watched the
crash over and over a few times and it looked

pretty

Quoted message said:

clearly that the Kelme rider just pulled out of his pedal. Did I miss something or is Phil
blind??

Danny Callen

You missed something... You can see the Kelme rider is in a rear wheel

slide

Quoted message said:

before his foot comes out. And before that you can see the Cofidis rider come across in front
of him...

Wade

In article 07qOa.36435$ZE.33650@lakeread05 said:

"Danny Callen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm just wondering if Phil saw the same thing I did in the crash

yesterday.

Quoted message said:

He kept referring to the crash being the fault of the Colfidis rider. WHAH!!?? I watched the
crash over and over a few times and it looked

pretty

Quoted message said:

clearly that the Kelme rider just pulled out of his pedal. Did I miss something or is Phil
blind??

Danny Callen

You missed something... You can see the Kelme rider is in a rear wheel slide before his foot comes
out. And before that you can see the Cofidis rider come across in front of him...

...Something a Cat 3 is used to seeing, but do they pull their foot out and fall down?

-WG

"Jason Waddell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

look at it again, the Cofidis rider swings across the road and the Kelme

rider

Quoted message said:

was overlapping his wheel. The Kelme rider only clipped out when he

started to

Quoted message said:

high- side crash. His wheel was already sliding before he ever clipped

out.

Quoted message said:

Typical high-side crash...

Have you guys ever crashed? I am begining to question your racing

knowledge...

Quoted message said:

jason
ps: if you don't ever crash, your not really racing...

(Pssst. Jason. That was a _low_ side crash.)

Jason Waddell said:

look at it again, the Cofidis rider swings across the road and the Kelme rider was overlapping his
wheel. The Kelme rider only clipped out when he started to high- side crash. His wheel was already
sliding before he ever clipped out. Typical high-side crash...

watch it somemore and I think you can see contact tween Cofidis rider and Kelme rider... the guy in
the back usually loses..

"Jason Waddell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

look at it again, the Cofidis rider swings across the road and the

Kelme rider

Quoted message said:

was overlapping his wheel. The Kelme rider only clipped out when he

started to

Quoted message said:

high- side crash. His wheel was already sliding before he ever

clipped out.

Quoted message said:

Typical high-side crash...

Have you guys ever crashed? I am begining to question your racing

knowledge...

Now that is a good one Jason - imagine questioning the racing knowledge here.

In article <[email hidden]>, Jason Waddell

Quoted message said:

look at it again, the Cofidis rider swings across the road and the Kelme rider was overlapping his
wheel. The Kelme rider only clipped out when he started to high- side crash. His wheel was already
sliding before he ever clipped out. Typical high-side crash...

I don't get why he clipped out except in panic. Just because his rear wheel starts to slide? and he
is still fairly upright. Then he (intentionally?) clips out and we know that's a hard way to balance
a bike. We have our rear wheel slide a foot or so once in awhile and momentum and balance can keep
us upright, but pulling a foot out throws it all out of balance, unless he thinks he's going to put
that foot down and slide on it like a motorcycle racer does, but then they have the throttle to
correct the balance coming out of that kind of turn.

-WG

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:vgkf5v3lq02pf0 @corp.supernews.com:

Quoted message said:

"Jason Waddell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

look at it again, the Cofidis rider swings across the road and the Kelme

rider

Quoted message said:

was overlapping his wheel. The Kelme rider only clipped out when he

started to

Quoted message said:

high- side crash. His wheel was already sliding before he ever clipped

out.

Quoted message said:

Typical high-side crash...

Have you guys ever crashed? I am begining to question your racing

knowledge...

Quoted message said:

jason
ps: if you don't ever crash, your not really racing...

(Pssst. Jason. That was a _low_ side crash.)

Carl, Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between a low and a high side crash? Is this a
reference to track racing?

- Boyd S. not a trackie

Danny Callen said:

I'm just wondering if Phil saw the same thing I did in the crash yesterday. He kept referring to
the crash being the fault of the Colfidis rider. WHAH!!?? I watched the crash over and over a few
times and it looked pretty clearly that the Kelme rider just pulled out of his pedal. Did I miss
something or is Phil blind??

Danny Callen

Actually McEwen cut off Zabel diving inside, Zabel's wheel hopped out, causing Cooke outside who in
turn nudged Thor who hit the charging Clain on the outside. Gutierrez ran out of room and couldn't
turn on the dangerous barrier feet. Samuel Sanchez speedjumped Caspar's legs.

warren said:

...Something a Cat 3 is used to seeing, but do they pull their foot out and fall down?

When your front wheel is about to ride over one of the barrier feet and wash out, I think I would
put my foot out.

You were BLIND........

The Cofidis rider went pretty wide (It was real obvious) and clipped the Kelme riders front wheel..

Danny Callen said:

I'm just wondering if Phil saw the same thing I did in the crash yesterday. He kept referring to
the crash being the fault of the Colfidis rider. WHAH!!?? I watched the crash over and over a few
times and it looked pretty clearly that the Kelme rider just pulled out of his pedal. Did I miss
something or is Phil blind??

Danny Callen

Quoted message said:

Carl, Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between a low and a high side crash? Is this
a reference to track racing?

- Boyd S. not a trackie

Not a track thing at all, but more a motorcycle racing thing. Low siding is what happens when your
front wheel washes out and you go down sliding on your ass. High siding is when the rear wheel
slides, then catches, launching you over the top of the bike/motorcycle. High siding is definitely
more painful of the two...

Mike

In article <[email hidden]>,

Boyd Speerschneider said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:vgkf5v3lq02pf0 @corp.supernews.com:

Quoted message said:

"Jason Waddell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was overlapping his wheel. The Kelme rider only clipped out when he

started to

Quoted message said:

high- side crash. His wheel was already sliding before he ever clipped

out.

Quoted message said:

Typical high-side crash...

Have you guys ever crashed? I am begining to question your racing

knowledge...

Quoted message said:

jason
ps: if you don't ever crash, your not really racing...

(Pssst. Jason. That was a _low_ side crash.)

Carl, Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between a low and a high side crash? Is this
a reference to track racing?

I've heard it as a motorcycle racing thing, but it works for any singletrack vehicle:

low-side: when you lose traction in a corner and fall towards the inside of the turn. A classic
low-side is when you go into a corner too hot, lose grip at either or both wheels, and bam! You're
on the ground.

high-side: when you lose traction in a corner, but then, after your bike has started sliding, you
regain traction just long enough for your bike to pitchfork you over to the outside of the turn.
Much more dangerous than a lowside.

The terminology comes from the fact that when you're leaned into a turn, if you lowside you're
already pretty close to the surface you're about to hit. You just fall to the ground. In a highside,
though, you get popped up, over your vehicle, and then fly clear to your final resting place. This
means you get up much higher before beginning your descent to earth, and your landing point tends to
be both more distant and more random.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Carl, Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between a low and a high side crash? Is
this a reference to track racing?

I've heard it as a motorcycle racing thing, but it works for any singletrack vehicle:

<snip>

It is a motorcycle term.

BTW, in over a decade of racing, I never once saw a true highside on a road bicycle, not in the
motorcycle sense.

warren said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Jason Waddell

Quoted message said:

look at it again, the Cofidis rider swings across the road and the Kelme rider was overlapping
his wheel. The Kelme rider only clipped out when he started to high- side crash. His wheel was
already sliding before he ever clipped out. Typical high-side crash...

I don't get why he clipped out except in panic. Just because his rear wheel starts to slide? and
he is still fairly upright. Then he (intentionally?) clips out and we know that's a hard way to
balance a bike. We have our rear wheel slide a foot or so once in awhile and momentum and balance
can keep us upright, but pulling a foot out throws it all out of balance, unless he thinks he's
going to put that foot down and slide on it like a motorcycle racer does, but then they have the
throttle to correct the balance coming out of that kind of turn.

-WG

I'm glad you can think so clearly in a crash. All I know in a crash is that the wheel is
disappearing from under me, theres nothing I can do about it, and one of the shoes unclips by
itself somehow.

GK

Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aLtOa.36

Quoted message said:

BTW, in over a decade of racing, I never once saw a true highside on a road bicycle, not in the
motorcycle sense.

Same here, but you do see guys sliding into curbs and highsiding it over that.

JT

--
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Visit jt10000.comjt10000.comOpen ↗
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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aLtOa.36

Quoted message said:

BTW, in over a decade of racing, I never once saw a true highside on a road bicycle, not in the
motorcycle sense.

Same here, but you do see guys sliding into curbs and highsiding it over that.

I didn't see the footage - is that what the Kelme rider did (curb highside)?

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Carl, Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between a low and a high side crash? Is
this a reference to track racing?

I've heard it as a motorcycle racing thing, but it works for any singletrack vehicle:

<snip>

It is a motorcycle term.

BTW, in over a decade of racing, I never once saw a true highside on a road bicycle, not in the
motorcycle sense.

In the 35+ 123 at Davis the other day several guys got pushed wide in a turn and essentially
high-sided when they hit the curb and landed on the grass.

-WG

warren said:

I don't get why he clipped out except in panic. Just because his rear wheel starts to slide? and
he is still fairly upright. Then he (intentionally?) clips out and we know that's a hard way to
balance a bike. We have our rear wheel slide a foot or so once in awhile and momentum and balance
can keep us upright, but pulling a foot out throws it all out of balance, unless he thinks he's
going to put that foot down and slide on it like a motorcycle racer does, but then they have the
throttle to correct the balance coming out of that kind of turn.

-WG

He was turning, on the outside near the barriers. It looked to me like a situation where he might
have recovered, but such a maneuver often requires snapping straight for several feet, which would
have put him in the crowd. I wouldn't give myself great odds of recovering in that situation.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.