Re: I know this has been beat to death here --- but

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

Racing slicks are available for about $20 at WalMart, but
are noticeably smaller than the ferocious standard knobbies,
so the reduced rolling resistance comes at the price of
lower gearing.

Dear Carl,

Huh?

Bill S.

Dear Bill,

Slicks roll more easily than knobbies, so they speed you up.

But the WalMart slicks are noticeably smaller than the
knobbies that come on a Fury Roadmaster, so you're rolling
along on tiny little tires with the same gearing, which
slows you down.

The Fury is, after all, undergeared for level pavement, and
switching to slicks make it seem as if you've lost high
gear.

The slicks turned out to be so small that I actually had to
expand the range of my inch-to-millimeter tire-table
spreadsheet for speedometer calibration.

Overall, the slicks ran faster, but some of the rolling
resistance advantage was offset by the even more frantic
pedal cadence on a level route.

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?selm=n7496115ckaa30b4e300crqrel86vv7s8i%404ax.com&output=gplain

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=rcdoo0drhcn1oda17ic9grisvfo48sg65f%404ax.com&rnum=1

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

Racing slicks are available for about $20 at WalMart, but
are noticeably smaller than the ferocious standard knobbies,
so the reduced rolling resistance comes at the price of
lower gearing.

Dear Carl,

Huh?

Bill S.

Dear Bill,

Slicks roll more easily than knobbies, so they speed you up.

But the WalMart slicks are noticeably smaller than the
knobbies that come on a Fury Roadmaster, so you're rolling
along on tiny little tires with the same gearing, which
slows you down.

The Fury is, after all, undergeared for level pavement, and
switching to slicks make it seem as if you've lost high
gear.

The slicks turned out to be so small that I actually had to
expand the range of my inch-to-millimeter tire-table
spreadsheet for speedometer calibration.

Overall, the slicks ran faster, but some of the rolling
resistance advantage was offset by the even more frantic
pedal cadence on a level route.

Dear Carl,

Oh.

Bill S.

<[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) some of the rolling resistance
advantage was offset by the even more frantic pedal cadence on a level
route.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bigger chain ring is not feasible on this bike?

Leo Lichtman said:

<[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) some of the rolling resistance
advantage was offset by the even more frantic pedal cadence on a level
route.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bigger chain ring is not feasible on this bike?

Dear Leo,

Just as the low-velocity gun of the original Sherman tank
could be improved to the high-velocity weapon of the
Firefly, so too could a Fury Roadmaster be geared upward.

But the effort involved might be similar.

Here's Sheldon's table of BCD and center-to-center sizes:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bcd

Under the grime, the Fury's largest chain ring's five
mounting holes are noticeably wrong for a Shimano 53-tooth
chain-ring's 76.4 mm center-to-center distance.

In fact, they appear to be roughly 80 mm apart,
center-to-center.

(That rattling noise came from the crypt of Tullio
Campagnolo.)

Assuming that a 53-tooth Campy ring really would fit a Fury
Roadmaster, and that Sheldon would be willing to sell one
for such ungodly purposes . . .

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chainrings/135.html

Looks like $54.95, plus shipping, a bit high for a $54
bicycle.

As for the theoretical gearing improvement, I looked at the
original Fury Roadmaster documentation here, rather than
counting all those teeth again:

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?selm=63tqb0pkhkfbu90qfs2hat90191cld8eb3%404ax.com&output=gplain

With its original 2073 mm knobby tire, 165 mm Ashtabula
crank, and 48 x 14 gears, the Fury's overall rubber-to-pedal
movement ratio was 6.86, requiring 75 rpm at 20 mph.

With its new 1975 mm slick, the ratio dropped to 6.53, and
demanded 79 rpm for the same 20 mph.

By taping a 53-tooth chain-ring firmly to the spider, a 7.21
overall ratio could be achieved and would allow a more
leisurely 72 rpm at 20 mph.

(I favor a glacial cadence on my touring bike of about 52
rpm at 20 mph, which is why riding the Fury seems so--well,
so furious. People who like to spin at 90 rpm can only
wonder what the fuss is about. Of course, they wouldn't be
caught dead at any rpm on a Fury Roadmaster.)

So higher gearing would require a 53-tooth chain-ring, a new
and longer chain, and possibly even a new front derailleur
capable of handling a 53 x 38 x 28 range, not to mention
encircling the Fury's mainmast--er, seat tube.

Alas, it appears that the Fury's chain rings were not
intended to be replaced. The $54-bicycle concept does not
lend itself to extensive or expensive modification. Possibly
the manufacturer feared that riders might be tempted to
tamper with the purity of the experience.

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Leo Lichtman said:

<[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) some of the rolling resistance
advantage was offset by the even more frantic pedal cadence on a level
route.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bigger chain ring is not feasible on this bike?

Dear Leo,

Just as the low-velocity gun of the original Sherman tank
could be improved to the high-velocity weapon of the
Firefly, so too could a Fury Roadmaster be geared upward.

But the effort involved might be similar.

Here's Sheldon's table of BCD and center-to-center sizes:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bcd

Under the grime, the Fury's largest chain ring's five
mounting holes are noticeably wrong for a Shimano 53-tooth
chain-ring's 76.4 mm center-to-center distance.

In fact, they appear to be roughly 80 mm apart,
center-to-center.

(That rattling noise came from the crypt of Tullio
Campagnolo.)

Assuming that a 53-tooth Campy ring really would fit a Fury
Roadmaster, and that Sheldon would be willing to sell one
for such ungodly purposes . . .

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chainrings/135.html

Looks like $54.95, plus shipping, a bit high for a $54
bicycle.

As for the theoretical gearing improvement, I looked at the
original Fury Roadmaster documentation here, rather than
counting all those teeth again:

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?selm=63tqb0pkhkfbu90qfs2hat90191cld8eb3%404ax.com&output=gplain

With its original 2073 mm knobby tire, 165 mm Ashtabula
crank, and 48 x 14 gears, the Fury's overall rubber-to-pedal
movement ratio was 6.86, requiring 75 rpm at 20 mph.

With its new 1975 mm slick, the ratio dropped to 6.53, and
demanded 79 rpm for the same 20 mph.

By taping a 53-tooth chain-ring firmly to the spider, a 7.21
overall ratio could be achieved and would allow a more
leisurely 72 rpm at 20 mph.

(I favor a glacial cadence on my touring bike of about 52
rpm at 20 mph, which is why riding the Fury seems so--well,
so furious. People who like to spin at 90 rpm can only
wonder what the fuss is about. Of course, they wouldn't be
caught dead at any rpm on a Fury Roadmaster.)

So higher gearing would require a 53-tooth chain-ring, a new
and longer chain, and possibly even a new front derailleur
capable of handling a 53 x 38 x 28 range, not to mention
encircling the Fury's mainmast--er, seat tube.

Alas, it appears that the Fury's chain rings were not
intended to be replaced. The $54-bicycle concept does not
lend itself to extensive or expensive modification. Possibly
the manufacturer feared that riders might be tempted to
tamper with the purity of the experience.

Surely we can preserve the purity of our essence, er, experience and remedy this
misgearing at the other end of the drivetrain. Inasmuch as you seem to have a
disgracefully thorough knowledge of this Master of the Road, you probably know
whether it is fitted with freewheel or freehub. Cassettes or freewheels can both
be had complete and ready to install for about $15 each. No great men of cycling
will have to twirl in their coffins and you'll be spared the necessity of
spinning like a time trialer just to get to the park.

Ron

RonSonic said:

Quoted message said:

Leo Lichtman said:

<[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) some of the rolling resistance
advantage was offset by the even more frantic pedal cadence on a level
route.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bigger chain ring is not feasible on this bike?

Dear Leo,

Just as the low-velocity gun of the original Sherman tank
could be improved to the high-velocity weapon of the
Firefly, so too could a Fury Roadmaster be geared upward.

But the effort involved might be similar.

Here's Sheldon's table of BCD and center-to-center sizes:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bcd

Under the grime, the Fury's largest chain ring's five
mounting holes are noticeably wrong for a Shimano 53-tooth
chain-ring's 76.4 mm center-to-center distance.

In fact, they appear to be roughly 80 mm apart,
center-to-center.

(That rattling noise came from the crypt of Tullio
Campagnolo.)

Assuming that a 53-tooth Campy ring really would fit a Fury
Roadmaster, and that Sheldon would be willing to sell one
for such ungodly purposes . . .

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chainrings/135.html

Looks like $54.95, plus shipping, a bit high for a $54
bicycle.

As for the theoretical gearing improvement, I looked at the
original Fury Roadmaster documentation here, rather than
counting all those teeth again:

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?selm=63tqb0pkhkfbu90qfs2hat90191cld8eb3%404ax.com&output=gplain

With its original 2073 mm knobby tire, 165 mm Ashtabula
crank, and 48 x 14 gears, the Fury's overall rubber-to-pedal
movement ratio was 6.86, requiring 75 rpm at 20 mph.

With its new 1975 mm slick, the ratio dropped to 6.53, and
demanded 79 rpm for the same 20 mph.

By taping a 53-tooth chain-ring firmly to the spider, a 7.21
overall ratio could be achieved and would allow a more
leisurely 72 rpm at 20 mph.

(I favor a glacial cadence on my touring bike of about 52
rpm at 20 mph, which is why riding the Fury seems so--well,
so furious. People who like to spin at 90 rpm can only
wonder what the fuss is about. Of course, they wouldn't be
caught dead at any rpm on a Fury Roadmaster.)

So higher gearing would require a 53-tooth chain-ring, a new
and longer chain, and possibly even a new front derailleur
capable of handling a 53 x 38 x 28 range, not to mention
encircling the Fury's mainmast--er, seat tube.

Alas, it appears that the Fury's chain rings were not
intended to be replaced. The $54-bicycle concept does not
lend itself to extensive or expensive modification. Possibly
the manufacturer feared that riders might be tempted to
tamper with the purity of the experience.

Surely we can preserve the purity of our essence, er, experience and remedy this
misgearing at the other end of the drivetrain. Inasmuch as you seem to have a
disgracefully thorough knowledge of this Master of the Road, you probably know
whether it is fitted with freewheel or freehub. Cassettes or freewheels can both
be had complete and ready to install for about $15 each. No great men of cycling
will have to twirl in their coffins and you'll be spared the necessity of
spinning like a time trialer just to get to the park.

Ron

Dear Ron,

The Fury Roadmaster boasts a five-cog rear freewheel whose
shark-like teeth gnash from 14 to 17, 20, 24, and 28.

Sheldon does sell possible Shimano replacement 5-speed
freewheels for $20 plus shipping:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/freewheels.html#5

For $39.95 and shipping Sheldon also sells close-range
high-speed Suntour 5-cog freewheels that might fit. They
drop from 14 to 13 teeth, but rise only to 23 teeth instead
of 28.

Forty bucks plus shipping just to drop one rear tooth on a
$54 bicycle (and lose some of the Fury's awesome climbing
ability) strikes me as being still a bit on the Micawber
side of bang for the buck.

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

RonSonic said:

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:22:56 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>
><[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) some of the rolling resistance
>advantage was offset by the even more frantic pedal cadence on a level
>route.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Bigger chain ring is not feasible on this bike?

Dear Leo,

Just as the low-velocity gun of the original Sherman tank
could be improved to the high-velocity weapon of the
Firefly, so too could a Fury Roadmaster be geared upward.

But the effort involved might be similar.

Here's Sheldon's table of BCD and center-to-center sizes:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bcd

Under the grime, the Fury's largest chain ring's five
mounting holes are noticeably wrong for a Shimano 53-tooth
chain-ring's 76.4 mm center-to-center distance.

In fact, they appear to be roughly 80 mm apart,
center-to-center.

(That rattling noise came from the crypt of Tullio
Campagnolo.)

Assuming that a 53-tooth Campy ring really would fit a Fury
Roadmaster, and that Sheldon would be willing to sell one
for such ungodly purposes . . .

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chainrings/135.html

Looks like $54.95, plus shipping, a bit high for a $54
bicycle.

As for the theoretical gearing improvement, I looked at the
original Fury Roadmaster documentation here, rather than
counting all those teeth again:

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?selm=63tqb0pkhkfbu90qfs2hat90191cld8eb3%404ax.com&output=gplain

With its original 2073 mm knobby tire, 165 mm Ashtabula
crank, and 48 x 14 gears, the Fury's overall rubber-to-pedal
movement ratio was 6.86, requiring 75 rpm at 20 mph.

With its new 1975 mm slick, the ratio dropped to 6.53, and
demanded 79 rpm for the same 20 mph.

By taping a 53-tooth chain-ring firmly to the spider, a 7.21
overall ratio could be achieved and would allow a more
leisurely 72 rpm at 20 mph.

(I favor a glacial cadence on my touring bike of about 52
rpm at 20 mph, which is why riding the Fury seems so--well,
so furious. People who like to spin at 90 rpm can only
wonder what the fuss is about. Of course, they wouldn't be
caught dead at any rpm on a Fury Roadmaster.)

So higher gearing would require a 53-tooth chain-ring, a new
and longer chain, and possibly even a new front derailleur
capable of handling a 53 x 38 x 28 range, not to mention
encircling the Fury's mainmast--er, seat tube.

Alas, it appears that the Fury's chain rings were not
intended to be replaced. The $54-bicycle concept does not
lend itself to extensive or expensive modification. Possibly
the manufacturer feared that riders might be tempted to
tamper with the purity of the experience.

Surely we can preserve the purity of our essence, er, experience and remedy this
misgearing at the other end of the drivetrain. Inasmuch as you seem to have a
disgracefully thorough knowledge of this Master of the Road, you probably know
whether it is fitted with freewheel or freehub. Cassettes or freewheels can both
be had complete and ready to install for about $15 each. No great men of cycling
will have to twirl in their coffins and you'll be spared the necessity of
spinning like a time trialer just to get to the park.

Ron

Dear Ron,

The Fury Roadmaster boasts a five-cog rear freewheel whose
shark-like teeth gnash from 14 to 17, 20, 24, and 28.

Sheldon does sell possible Shimano replacement 5-speed
freewheels for $20 plus shipping:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/freewheels.html#5

For $39.95 and shipping Sheldon also sells close-range
high-speed Suntour 5-cog freewheels that might fit. They
drop from 14 to 13 teeth, but rise only to 23 teeth instead
of 28.

Forty bucks plus shipping just to drop one rear tooth on a
$54 bicycle (and lose some of the Fury's awesome climbing
ability) strikes me as being still a bit on the Micawber
side of bang for the buck.

Carl Fogel

My initial reaction was that Sheldon's wares represent a quality and price level
that is not quite proportional to what we'd want for so Furious a Roadmaster.
Unfortunately all of the lower cost options are available in only the same 14-28
arrangement that you have already.

Perhaps "Mt Fury" refers to the downhill side.

Ron

Quoted message said:

The Fury Roadmaster boasts a five-cog rear freewheel whose
shark-like teeth gnash from 14 to 17, 20, 24, and 28.

[..]

Quoted message said:

Forty bucks plus shipping just to drop one rear tooth on a
$54 bicycle (and lose some of the Fury's awesome climbing
ability) strikes me as being still a bit on the Micawber
side of bang for the buck.

Does the fury have indexed shifters, and if so, do they have a lever to
turn the indexing off? 'Cause then you can just mount a randomly-sized
freewheel on it, possibly with the additional cost of a longer axle.
6/7-speed freewheels seem to be more readily available with <14 high
gears. Although having more gears might corrupt its bodily fluids, of
course.

Jasper

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 16:24:10 GMT, Jasper Janssen
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does the fury have indexed shifters, and if so, do they have a lever to
turn the indexing off? 'Cause then you can just mount a randomly-sized
freewheel on it, possibly with the additional cost of a longer axle.
6/7-speed freewheels seem to be more readily available with <14 high
gears. Although having more gears might corrupt its bodily fluids, of
course.

Quoted message said:

The Fury Roadmaster employs state-of-the-art thumb shifters
that are indexed to the extent that they make clicking
noises when pushed either way and have decals indicating H
and L and 1-5.

Sheldon has indeed recognized the furious demand for greater
selection in freewheel gearing:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/freewheels.html#5

A new 6-speed Shimano 13-34 beckons at only $19.95, plus
shipping. But again, a twenty-dollar freewheel, the cost of
a wide new axle, renting a gorilla to spread the rear frame
to accept it

Enh. Just use one of those nifty rear-fork-spreaders that's intended to
spread the rear fork temporarily while replacing a tire (I'm in the land
of 3 speed gearhubs and fully enclosed chaincases, which makes that less
silly than otherwise) to spread the fork long enough to slide the new
wheel in, and then tighten the axle nuts (it doesn't have QRs, does it?)
enough so that the dropouts are vaguely square.

Quoted message said:

, and the long hours of careful fitting and
polishing (rust removal) might prove uneconomical for the
gain of a single rear tooth on a $54 bicycle.

But for exactly the same cost (aside from a very marginally longer extra
long axle), you could also screw on a 7sp that goes from 11 to 28, which
is also significantly better technologically. Going from 14 to 13 might
not be worth it, but going from 14 to 11 is a whole 21 percent higher top
gear! And is it not said that when a body dies and the soul flees, there
is a reduction in weight by 21 grams? So you see that the number 21 is an
important one.

Jasper