I hate motorists

Quoted message said:

You know the types, overweight, shaven headed, red faced 40 something, with an Arseanl shirt,

Actually, minus the shaved head and the Arsenal shirt, that sounds rather like me on my bike.
Especially when I'm cycling uphill ;-)

Cheers, helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$**o$l.c$$*o$*m*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~

"adrian28uk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I had no alternative but to move on to the pavment.

There is always an alternative (although it may involve slowing down!). It's probably time for you
to stop planning on using the pavement and instead work on a different way round your obstructions.
If nothing else, it's more dangerous for you if you're there.

If you try and always overtake rather than undertake, that gets you used to being on the right hand
side of traffic, which IMO is the best place to be when it's running slowly.

(If playing in rush hours, you can frequently use the empty lane intended for vehicles coming the
other way.)

However always be _very_ careful what you're doing, and expect the worst.

RE your incident outside the baker's - it isn't terribly well described. Is the baker on the LHS or
RHS of the road? Was the car facing you or in the same direction as you? Was it on the LHS or RHS of
the road? (Just reading what you wrote seems an impossible situation, as the driver's door normally
opens onto the road)

Oh - here's another general rule - if you're breaking the law, don't expect mercy.

cheers, clive

adrian28uk said:

What is it with motorists and bikes. Why is it that they hate us so much and don't bother to show
us any respect on the road.

That would involve a lot of self hate, since a large number of cyclists are also motorists. I find I
get shown plenty of respect on my bike when I ride it well and show respect for other road users in
return. Yes, there are [censored] in cars (and vans, and trucks, and buses, and on motorcycles) but
then OTOH there are plenty of tossers on bikes as well. Sweeping everyone into the same pot based on
their mode of transport isn't going to help.

<sorry tale snipped>

Most confrontations of that nature are easily avoided simply by proactive cycling. For example, it
soon becomes clear after you've been riding past parked cars for a while, especially very *recently*
parked cars, that you're in a degree of danger of getting "doored", so you ride further out in the
road which not only makes you more visible but reduces the chances of being obstructed. You
shouldn't ride on the pavement, and not just because of pissing people off. You shouldn't do it
because it is *more* dangerous than riding on the road. On the road people are generally on the
lookout for other vehicles, on pavements rarely so. Riding on the road is governed by rules and
conventions and the great majority of road users follow at least a substantial proportion of them.
There's nothing like that for pavements, so they're inherently unpredictable places to ride, and
unpredictable makes them unsafe.

Quoted message said:

It made me think who is in the wrong here, is it me or him, or are we both wrong.

From the description, sounds like both of you. I'd suggest you get a copy of John Franklin's
"Cyclecraft", which has a lot of good advice on safe road riding.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"adrian28uk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

What is it with motorists and bikes. Why is it that they hate us so much and don't bother to show
us any respect on the road. You go on the road and you get blocked because of [censored] heads not
thinking, so you decide to go on the pavement and get moaned at by pedestrians. It's about time
this goverment got people out of their cars and on their bikes and gave us some rights. I admit
that I only go used to use a car

<snipped>

Don't tar all motorists with the same brush. I drive more than I cycle, but I'm a considerate
driver, give cyclists plenty of space, and don't pull up next to kerbs at traffic lights unless the
road actually forces me to do so.

Deciding all motorists behave as you describe does nothing for motorist/cyclist relations - it
merely provokes motorists that might have otherwise been ambivalent about cyclists that jump red
lights, cycle on the pavements, swerve out of junctions without looking, to instead view them with
more distaste and annoyance than previously.

I've cycled on the pavement. At close to walking pace. I don't get close to pedestrians to go around
or overtake them. If the pavement doesn't allow for this (in my area most pavement are utterly
devoid of peds) then I get off and walk the bike. I've never had a ped moan at me - in fact, one
stopped me for a chat about bikes and nice places to cycle in the area.

I think with all things, much is down to *how* things are done. Cycling at anything more than
walking speed on a pavement where peds are around WILL get you moaned at, IME. Personally, if I
can't get past a car coming up to a junction because they're well over to the left, then so be it -
I wait in the queue of cars, behind it (taking up the lane). If there's someone parked near the
kerb, or half on the pavement, then I move out into the lane of traffic and pass it. I don't see
what the problem is with this.

And I have to say - observation is an important skill. If you can see people in a car, then there's
always a risk they will open a door in front of you. And if it's parked that risk increases a lot.
If it's parked in an area where they aren't expecting bikes to be cycling past (as is the case with
a pavement!) then no, a car passenger/driver won't be looking for a cyclist approaching. They'll be
looking in a much shorter distance, for a pedestrian.

I can understand your annoyance, but I'm afraid I don't think you'd done the right thing. Yes, the
car driver shouldn't have parked there, but equally, you shouldn't have been cycling along the
pavement and not expected something like that to happen. Same with people pulling out their
driveways and knocking off a pavement cyclist. Car drivers watch pavements for pedestrians when
pulling out of drives, and they (hopefully, though not always) watch the road for cyclists and cars.
A cyclist on the pavement is often missed SIMPLY because the brain wasn't looking for a ped on a
bike, but a ped. The cyclist is often travelling at speed, so doesn't hear the car engine because
he's approaching faster than walking pace - the two meet, and you can guess the rest.

Cycling should adapt to the conditions around. Saying that, yes, I think there's a lot of
inconsiderate drivers around. But not all of them.

Velvet

When you've done a few more miles you'll maybe be more relaxed :-). Read the rest of the posts and
cool it a bit. We all get annoyed by other road users from time to time, but never forget that if
you collide with a car you lose. It doesn't matter who's right or wrong - you still lose. And in
many cases, yours included IMO, there is blame on both sides. The other posts give sound advice on
riding safely in traffic. Read them and post back if you're unclear about anything. There are plenty
of people in this group who will gladly help and encourage new cyclists. Bill.

Two wheels are cool but four's a bore.

"adrian28uk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Traffic is traffic. There's no rule that says that space between motor vehicles and the gutter,
between motor vehicles and buildings, or between motor vehicles in lanes, has to be left for
cyclists. Of course, they should not pull into space you are already occupying, but if you're not
already there you can't expect them to set aside space just perchance a cyclist turns up. Try
cycling in London. You just have to make do with whatever space is available and wait your turn if
there is no space available, even as a cyclist.

Rich

adrian28uk deftly scribbled:

Quoted message said:

What is it with motorists and bikes. Why is it that they hate us so much

I don't .. and I'm a motorist.

I think you need to chill a little, and when you're riding, watch the road further ahead than you
obviously are .. 😉

--
Digweed

I have seen this too ! I had some [censored] beeping me to get the f**k out of the way since he payed
road tax and I did not. I then informed him that as I earn about £60000 a year and have two cars and
therefore contribute to the roads a hell of a lot more than he did. He shut up. He also did not
threaten me since I am 6feet 2 and a big lad. Seriously, I have not been biking long and I have seen
this problem already.

The problem is that in our car culture, eceryone has a killer instinct and anything that slows them
down for a second is seen as a threat. I think the Police are absolutly correct in putting speed
cameras all over the place. This culture of speeding has got to be curbed.

"adrian28uk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

What is it with motorists and bikes. Why is it that they hate us so much and don't bother to show
us any respect on the road. You go on the road and you get blocked because of [censored] heads not
thinking, so you decide to go on the pavement and get moaned at by pedestrians. It's about time
this goverment got people out of their cars and on their bikes and gave us some rights. I admit
that I only go used to use a car myself even if it was going down the shop less than a mile away,
but since cycling to and from places on my bike for the last few months it has made me made me
feel alive, alert and most importantly made me 100% healthier. It has also made me hate motorists
for their lack of respect and general lazyness. Today was another fine example of how cars can get
people stressed and how they blame cyclists for their own mistakes. I had no alternative but to
move on to the pavment. I noticed a car parked up on to the pavment next to the bakery. Obviously
this person was too lazy to walk so what they decided to do was leave a minimal gap between the
bakery and car to let pedestrains and bikes through. What happend next, you guessed it, is that
the prat driver decided to open his door. I had to break suddenly before I went to him. Now at
this point as far as I am concerned he should not have been parked like that. What he did next was
called me a stupid f^&k&^g C@#t, so I shouted at him back and called him a Fat B%^tard, which he
was. You know the types, overweight, shaven headed, red faced 40 something, with an Arseanl shirt,
even though he lives in a small sleepy town near Brighton. It made me think who is in the wrong
here, is it me or him, or are we both wrong. I think motorists should be fined for this, unless
its a real emergency. This has ruined my day.

--

Quoted message said:

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Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗

In "]news:[email hidden], adrian28uk <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

I admit that I only go used to use a car myself even if it was going down the shop less than a
mile away, but since cycling to and from places on my bike for the last few months it has made me
made me feel alive, alert and most importantly made me 100% healthier.

Ah the zeal of the newly converted. I bet that back when you used a car you did all the things you
are now complaining about.

Tony

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Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer