Tempo Riding

tempo pace is about the same pace you could hold for a 3 hour time trial, depending on your fitness, but that's about right for an in shape amatuer racer.

for me, it's around 10 bpm below threshold heart rate, or 50 watts under threshold power(1 hour power)

velomanct said:

tempo pace is about the same pace you could hold for a 3 hour time trial, depending on your fitness, but that's about right for an in shape amatuer racer.

for me, it's around 10 bpm below threshold heart rate, or 50 watts under threshold power(1 hour power)

everything i have read is 95% of lactate threshold or 15% max heart rate.

tbarb said:

I often hear other riders talk about riding "tempo" but have heard it defined in different ways (e.g., a few beats below your lactate threshold LT). I would be curious to hear what some of you define as tempo.
Thanks.

Yes, it seems that riders' definitions of Tempo are all over the scale. The definition I use for Tempo rides are between 2 - 3 hours and are between 78% - 85% of Max heart rate depending on how fit/unfit I am, temperature outside, how recently I ate, etc. 85% may sound pretty high but if it's sweltering hot outside it's easy for me to sustain those efforts.

I would say about 82% of Max would more accurately describe the version of Tempo I use. But as you can see, there are many variants on this theme. What defines Tempo will also depend on who's coaching philosophies you adhere to.

Tempo is extremely variable and depends a lot on the prevailing conditions.

Tempo should stop the talking in the bunch! 😄

velomanct said:

tempo pace is about the same pace you could hold for a 3 hour time trial, depending on your fitness, but that's about right for an in shape amatuer racer.

for me, it's around 10 bpm below threshold heart rate, or 50 watts under threshold power(1 hour power)

actually, that would be more like a measure of lactate threshold, which is frequently defined as the workrate that elicits a 1mmol/L increase over exercise baseline levels. this would be sustainable for ~ 3hrs.

having lived in various parts of the UK and Europe and coaching people worldwide, i tend to find that "tempo" means completely different things to different people, from cruising around to hammering. there seems to be no concensus on what it means

ric

Personally, when I hear Tempo I think about the style of ride more than a specific heart rate. Tempo for me means a quick, but not hammering pace, and some good efforts on the hills. Compare this to an Endurance pace which will also have a quick pace on the flats, but hills are done slow enough to stay below LT.

ric_stern/RST said:

actually, that would be more like a measure of lactate threshold, which is frequently defined as the workrate that elicits a 1mmol/L increase over exercise baseline levels. this would be sustainable for ~ 3hrs.

having lived in various parts of the UK and Europe and coaching people worldwide, i tend to find that "tempo" means completely different things to different people, from cruising around to hammering. there seems to be no concensus on what it means

ric

kjellquist said:

Personally, when I hear Tempo I think about the style of ride more than a specific heart rate. Tempo for me means a quick, but not hammering pace, and some good efforts on the hills. Compare this to an Endurance pace which will also have a quick pace on the flats, but hills are done slow enough to stay below LT.

point in case, i ride on the flats at endurance pace at around LT (this is a lowish level).

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

point in case, i ride on the flats at endurance pace at around LT (this is a lowish level).

ric

Wow, I would not think of LT or threshold as a "lowish level." If you mean 90-100% or more of 40km TT power, then that seems like a lot. I suppose it also depends what you are training for. I would think of tempo as more like A. Coggan's notion of roughly 75-90% of that power, but maybe I am just weak.

Watoni said:

Wow, I would not think of LT or threshold as a "lowish level." If you mean 90-100% or more of 40km TT power, then that seems like a lot. I suppose it also depends what you are training for. I would think of tempo as more like A. Coggan's notion of roughly 75-90% of that power, but maybe I am just weak.

Both Andy and myself define LT (virtually) the same, that is, the work rate that elicits a 1 mmol/L increase over exercise base line levels (~ 2.X mmol/L) this is the definition i tend to use, while Andy use the work rate that elicits a a lactate of 2.5 mmol/L. These levels are ~ 10 - 15% less than the power of (e.g.) a 40-km TT, and can be sustained for ~ 3 hrs.

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

Both Andy and myself define LT (virtually) the same, that is, the work rate that elicits a 1 mmol/L increase over exercise base line levels (~ 2.X mmol/L) this is the definition i tend to use, while Andy use the work rate that elicits a a lactate of 2.5 mmol/L. These levels are ~ 10 - 15% less than the power of (e.g.) a 40-km TT, and can be sustained for ~ 3 hrs.

ric

Tempo rides: During your Build training, you worked up to a 100 mile tempo ride. Maintain your high speed endurance by doing a brisk 45 - 75 mile tempo ride each week. Warm-up for 30 minutes, ride tempo at a sustained effort of 85 - 95% of LT, and then cool-down for 15 minutes.

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ric_stern/RST said:

Both Andy and myself define LT (virtually) the same, that is, the work rate that elicits a 1 mmol/L increase over exercise base line levels (~ 2.X mmol/L) this is the definition i tend to use, while Andy use the work rate that elicits a a lactate of 2.5 mmol/L. These levels are ~ 10 - 15% less than the power of (e.g.) a 40-km TT, and can be sustained for ~ 3 hrs.

ric

you are correct, because scientifically, lactate threshold is not the pace an in-shape cyclist could hold for 1 hour, but more like 3 hours.

I myself define LT as 40km TT pace, so that is why I call tempo my '3 hour power'.

So If I were able to ride 3 hours at 275watts average, my 1 hour power would be approximately 315watts.

according to CTS, the same coach that helped lance win a few TdF, Tempo is about 80-85% MHR, Cadence is 75-80 RPM. at first i was like piece of cake! do that for 30 min?! oh ok, no problem! i was wrong. it was like squating a standard olympic 7-ft bar for 30 min. easy at first, then hell in the end. it gradually gets tougher by the stroke of each RPM! chris carmichael says his top athletes can do this for 2 hours! wow! anyway, during my tempo sessions (for now, i do 30 min) i can push out 230-235 watts avg. although i think it is sad for my standards, i admit it is good considering i am at the last few weeks of the foundation period; which is all about aerobic endurance/capacity. when i start to race (sometime in july or august) i hope to push out 275-300 watts for at least an hour

vio765 said:

according to CTS, the same coach that helped lance win a few TdF, Tempo is about 80-85% MHR, Cadence is 75-80 RPM.

to clarify, the term "tempo" has been around a lot longer than CTS, and as mentioned earlier has no specific meaning. in other words everyone seems to define tempo differently.

ric

Ahh yes, when the hammer drops the conversation stops. Too bad for me sometimes the group is conversational at such time as I am quite near limit.
Tempo is not measurably defineable as some here are suggesting. If it was a measurable parameter we could ride with a tempo meter.

I recall the morning ride in Palo Alto as being described as a Tempo ride, but you must be at a high level of output capability to think of hanging.

My best stab at defining Tempo would be riding at a steady state, without any surges or cooldowns, which are so common on the racer group rides.

ed073 said:

Tempo is extremely variable and depends a lot on the prevailing conditions.

Tempo should stop the talking in the bunch! 😄

Hypnospin said:

Ahh yes, when the hammer drops the conversation stops. Too bad for me sometimes the group is conversational at such time as I am quite near limit.
Tempo is not measurably defineable as some here are suggesting. If it was a measurable parameter we could ride with a tempo meter.

I recall the morning ride in Palo Alto as being described as a Tempo ride, but you must be at a high level of output capability to think of hanging.

My best stab at defining Tempo would be riding at a steady state, without any surges or cooldowns, which are so common on the racer group rides.

100% correct. A tempo ride for the Australian Institute of Sport track endurance squad is not the same as a tempo ride for some fat wealthy lawyers who got into "biking" after seeing the Tour on TV.

😄

ed073 said:

100% correct. A tempo ride for the Australian Institute of Sport track endurance squad is not the same as a tempo ride for some fat wealthy lawyers who got into "biking" after seeing the Tour on TV.

😄

Somewhat unnecessarily snide, no? The point is not that "tempo" varies largely by ability so much as that "tempo" as a concept is relatively undefined (or suffers from multiple inconsistent definitions). Threshold, LT, AT, etc. are more uniform, so that people who use it can understand what intensity is meant and the purpose. The best Div. I riders put out a lot more watts at threshold than a Cat. 1 or a recreational rider, but they all should be doing threshold workouts, no?

To paraphrase a certain cycling coach:

"The method is the same for you as it is for the pros. What differs is the workload."

Watoni said:

Somewhat unnecessarily snide, no?

that's me....100% pure smartarse. 😄

no wonder the Belgians are so strong... Whenever you ask what they are doing for training tomorrow, they say "5hours Hard Tempo"...

...not just 'Tempo' but 'Hard Tempo'!

now... anyone know what this value is 😉

Tuney

tuney said:

no wonder the Belgians are so strong... Whenever you ask what they are doing for training tomorrow, they say "5hours Hard Tempo"...

...not just 'Tempo' but 'Hard Tempo'!

now... anyone know what this value is 😉

Tuney

latey I have been doing 2.5 hr tempo rides which are equal to 2.5 hr time trials. that's basically the same pace. so i would assume a '5 hour hard tempo' would be a 5 hr time trial. you can't ride 5 hrs at 3 hr pace!
very good stuff for raising your threshold.