Cycling shoe setup

jstc said:

I just bought my first set of cycling shoes. The shoes have no
instructions for mounting the hardware on them and the hardware that
came with the bike
( new bike , Trek 7500 ) has no instructions. I have tried several
search variations and have not found a web page on the subject. I have
tried the Trek, Wellgo & Specialized pages and I cant find a bit of
information.

TIA

The instructions often come with the pedals. Because they decide what kind
of cleats? ( I can't remember what it's called in English ) are supposed to
be mounted on the shoes. These cleats? usually come with the pedals. What
you need to know is if your shoes are compatible with certain kind of
pedals. This should be clearly specified with the shoe 😉

--
Perre
I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.

Quoted message said:

I just bought my first set of cycling shoes. The shoes have no
instructions for mounting the hardware on them and the hardware that
came with the bike
( new bike , Trek 7500 ) has no instructions. I have tried several
search variations and have not found a web page on the subject. I have
tried the Trek, Wellgo & Specialized pages and I cant find a bit of
information.

The shop that sold you the shoes & pedals would normally set them up for you
and help you learn how to use them. I would explore that option first, since
they'll have expertise with the particular shoe you purchased (and sometimes
there can be little things about the shoe setup, like perhaps the need to
remove a small amount of material from the sole so that it
engages/disengages more readily, that you only learn from experience).

But, in general, you'll find the shoe has two sets of mounting holes (fore &
aft), and on the shoes we sell (Shimano, Nike & Sidi), it usually works best
to use the aft (rear) set of holes, with the cleat slid as far forward as it
can go. This typically puts the ball of the foot over the pedal spindle. For
the angle, assuming the shoe was built correctly, set the cleat so it's
perpendicular to the slots.

On the pedals, make sure the tension screw is set low for learning process,
but don't back the screw out too far or it may come out and you won't be
able to reassemble it.

Oh, almost forgot. Make sure you grease the threads of the cleat screws, as
well as the underside of the screw's head (where it contacts the cleat) so
that it turns easily. This will make sure the cleats are actually tight, not
just jammed up.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"jstc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just bought my first set of cycling shoes. The shoes have no
instructions for mounting the hardware on them and the hardware that
came with the bike
( new bike , Trek 7500 ) has no instructions. I have tried several
search variations and have not found a web page on the subject. I have
tried the Trek, Wellgo & Specialized pages and I cant find a bit of
information.

TIA

jstc says...

Quoted message said:

I just bought my first set of cycling shoes. The shoes have no
instructions for mounting the hardware on them and the hardware that
came with the bike
( new bike , Trek 7500 ) has no instructions. I have tried several
search variations and have not found a web page on the subject. I have
tried the Trek, Wellgo & Specialized pages and I cant find a bit of
information.

Pedals come with cleats. The cleats bolt to the shoes. Not all
pedal/shoe/cleat combinations are compatible. But do yourself a favor
and take the shoes back while you still can and just use platforms. The
7500 is a hybrid, right? You need clipless pedals like you need a stone
around your neck.

"Fred Barney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jstc says...

Quoted message said:

I just bought my first set of cycling shoes. The shoes have no
instructions for mounting the hardware on them and the hardware that
came with the bike
( new bike , Trek 7500 ) has no instructions. I have tried several
search variations and have not found a web page on the subject. I have
tried the Trek, Wellgo & Specialized pages and I cant find a bit of
information.

Pedals come with cleats. The cleats bolt to the shoes. Not all
pedal/shoe/cleat combinations are compatible. But do yourself a favor
and take the shoes back while you still can and just use platforms. The
7500 is a hybrid, right? You need clipless pedals like you need a stone
around your neck.

Nonsense. You can enjoy de benefits of clipless pedals on any kind of bike.
The only thing is that you need cycling shoes and sometimes that is to much
of a hassle and you HAVE to use platforms.

Lou

Lou Holtman said:

"Fred Barney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jstc says...

Quoted message said:

I just bought my first set of cycling shoes. The shoes have no
instructions for mounting the hardware on them and the hardware that
came with the bike
( new bike , Trek 7500 ) has no instructions. I have tried several
search variations and have not found a web page on the subject. I have
tried the Trek, Wellgo & Specialized pages and I cant find a bit of
information.

Pedals come with cleats. The cleats bolt to the shoes. Not all
pedal/shoe/cleat combinations are compatible. But do yourself a favor
and take the shoes back while you still can and just use platforms. The
7500 is a hybrid, right? You need clipless pedals like you need a stone
around your neck.

Nonsense. You can enjoy de benefits of clipless pedals on any kind of bike.
The only thing is that you need cycling shoes and sometimes that is to much
of a hassle and you HAVE to use platforms.

Lou

Dear Lou,

What are the benefits of clipless pedals?

Carl Fogel

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lou Holtman said:

"Fred Barney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jstc says...

> I just bought my first set of cycling shoes. The shoes have no
> instructions for mounting the hardware on them and the hardware that
> came with the bike
> ( new bike , Trek 7500 ) has no instructions. I have tried several
> search variations and have not found a web page on the subject. I

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> tried the Trek, Wellgo & Specialized pages and I cant find a bit of
> information.

Pedals come with cleats. The cleats bolt to the shoes. Not all
pedal/shoe/cleat combinations are compatible. But do yourself a favor
and take the shoes back while you still can and just use platforms.

The

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

7500 is a hybrid, right? You need clipless pedals like you need a

stone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

around your neck.

Nonsense. You can enjoy de benefits of clipless pedals on any kind of

bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The only thing is that you need cycling shoes and sometimes that is to

much

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of a hassle and you HAVE to use platforms.

Lou

Dear Lou,

What are the benefits of clipless pedals?

Carl Fogel

Carl,

IMO secure attachement of your foot to the pedal which enables you to pull
and push in the most efficient way. Hey, there are few things you NEED in
life and clipless pedals are not one of them, I agree, but for me it makes
cycling a lot more fun. If I could I would use them even on my city bike.
Shoe swapping is holding me back...till now.

Lou

jstc said:

I just bought my first set of cycling shoes. The shoes have no
instructions for mounting the hardware on them and the hardware that
came with the bike
( new bike , Trek 7500 ) has no instructions. I have tried several
search variations and have not found a web page on the subject. I

have

Quoted message said:

tried the Trek, Wellgo & Specialized pages and I cant find a bit of
information.

I'm assuming you have SPD-style pedals (not straps). If so, there are
some "cleats" that come with the pedals that attach to the shoe
bottoms. You should see some threaded holes through some slots in the
soles. If you don't see them there may be a covering that needs to be
cut away. The covering usually has an oval shape.

The cleats mount with 2 bolts, the side of the cleat that goes against
the sole has "teeth" on it. There is a thin oval piece that goes under
the bolt heads and fits into a recess on the cleat. Grease the bolts
before assembling. Usually there are 3 rows of (2) holes. Try the
middle first, center the cleat, pointy end towards toe of shoe. Tighten
very snugly, bring an allen wrench on your first ride & check cleats
for loosening.

There are some allen heads on the outside of the pedal body. These are
for setting the release tension. There is usually some indicator for
tension level. For Wellgo pedals, it is usually where the cleat engages
the pedal. It is usually a good idea to set the tension low initially
and to rub some grease on the cleat to help release/engage until the
pedal wears in a bit.

After riding a bit, you may want to tweak the pedal setup. A common
thing to do is to move the cleats forward or back (usually forward)
and/or to change the angle (toe in/out). Practice clipping in/out in a
doorway or something before heading out (riding on grass might be
smart, too). Remember to unclip well before you stop until your
reflexes get trained.

Quoted message said:

Dear Lou,

What are the benefits of clipless pedals?

Carl Fogel

Carl, how many times are you going to ask that question? I believe the
various benefits, advantages, and concerns about clipless pedals, has
been explained to you, many times.

You're an inquisitive sort of guy, why not try a set. Buy a pair of
cycling shoes, that you will be able to use, with or without cleats.
That way, if you are one of the rare few, who don't like clipless, the
shoes will still be worthwhile for their stiffness. The shoes you will
wan,t will be SPD compatible. The Shimano shoes that Jobst recommends,
would be, just what you need.

I'll be looking forward to your first report, maybe titled
"Carl Tries Clipless".

Life is Good!
Jeff

Quoted message said:

What are the benefits of clipless pedals?

The primary benefit of clipless pedals is safety. When riding hard, a
foot slip off the pedal can be dangerous. The conventional solution for
many years has been straps. Straps eliminate the threat, but can be
uncomfortable, a bit of a nuisance to get in & out of, and can trap the
foot in a crash.

There is a slight efficiency advantage to any foot retention method in
that it eliminates the need to keep pressure on the pedal at the bottom
of the stroke just to keep contact with the pedal.

Keeping feet on pedals is especially a problem while mountain biking, I
think it was the popularity of this form of cycling that really
advanced the use of clipless pedals. I disagree somwhat with a prior
poster's assertion that a hybrid bike, by nature, doesn't need
clipless. Hybrid bikes are designed to be ridden on unpaved surfaces,
and the newer models, being light and high geared, support fast riding.
That to me is a very appropriate place for clipless pedals.

Jeff Starr said:

Quoted message said:

Dear Lou,

What are the benefits of clipless pedals?

Carl Fogel

Carl, how many times are you going to ask that question? I believe the
various benefits, advantages, and concerns about clipless pedals, has
been explained to you, many times.

You're an inquisitive sort of guy, why not try a set. Buy a pair of
cycling shoes, that you will be able to use, with or without cleats.
That way, if you are one of the rare few, who don't like clipless, the
shoes will still be worthwhile for their stiffness. The shoes you will
wan,t will be SPD compatible. The Shimano shoes that Jobst recommends,
would be, just what you need.

I'll be looking forward to your first report, maybe titled
"Carl Tries Clipless".

Life is Good!
Jeff

Dear Jeff,

It could be that I'm hoping for better explanations.

Or I may enjoy reading replies like yours, which dodge the
question.

It's interesting that there's nothing about the advantages
of clipless pedals in the FAQ.

Carl Fogel

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

What are the benefits of clipless pedals?

The primary benefit of clipless pedals is safety. When riding hard, a
foot slip off the pedal can be dangerous. The conventional solution for
many years has been straps. Straps eliminate the threat, but can be
uncomfortable, a bit of a nuisance to get in & out of, and can trap the
foot in a crash.

There is a slight efficiency advantage to any foot retention method in
that it eliminates the need to keep pressure on the pedal at the bottom
of the stroke just to keep contact with the pedal.

Keeping feet on pedals is especially a problem while mountain biking, I
think it was the popularity of this form of cycling that really
advanced the use of clipless pedals. I disagree somwhat with a prior
poster's assertion that a hybrid bike, by nature, doesn't need
clipless. Hybrid bikes are designed to be ridden on unpaved surfaces,
and the newer models, being light and high geared, support fast riding.
That to me is a very appropriate place for clipless pedals.

Dear Peter,

That's a clearer and more sensible answer than I usually
receive when I ask about clipless pedals. Maybe it's
obvious, but I don't recall anyone suggesting your point
that clipless is more helpful for mountain biking.

Two questions . . .

First, I notice lots of unhappy riders complaining of pain
just riding around, which they blame on their clipless
pedals, and occasional posts that mention broken legs and
ankles that they attribute to clipless pedals failing to
disengage in crashes.

Since almost all posters here use clipless pedals, it's hard
to guess how many of them would be complaining about their
feet slipping off without clipless pedals, but do you have
any idea how the problem rates might compare? That is, would
you expect the long-term joint-pain and accident-injury
attributed to clipless pedals to be less than what the same
riders would suffer if their pedals let their feet come off?

Second, concerning efficiency, did you mean the bottom or
the top of the stroke? And do you know of any link to data
or testing that shows the efficiency?

I really am curious about the advantages, so thanks for a
serious reply.

Carl Fogel

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

It's interesting that there's nothing about the advantages
of clipless pedals in the FAQ.

Carl Fogel

Carl: That's because you're reading the wrong FAQ!

http://www.chainreaction.com/pedalfaq.htm

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com

Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Dear Mike,

Oops! Forgive my elitist thinking.

Now looking through the explanation in the right FAQ, I see
four reasons . . .

1) Without clipless pedals, your feet might slip off.

(But even the explanation seems to admit that this is
unlikely.)

2) Clipless pedals force your foot to stay in the "correct"
position on the pedal.

(What determines this "correct" position? Do feet not
constrained by clipless pedals tend to move to "incorrect"
positions? Given the frequent complaints on the newsgroup,
is there a fair chance that the cleats will instead force
feet to some "incorrect" position?)

3) Clipless pedals (or perhaps the shoes?) prevent your feet
from bending painfully around the pedals

(Given the same pedal width and shoe sole, how can a cleat
change the amount that your toes can curl around the pedal?)

4) Clipless pedals relieve you from the burden of thinking
about putting your feet on the pedals.

(Were people really furrowing their brows and concentrating
on keeping their feet on the pedals before clipless pedals
were invented? And doesn't the FAQ go on to discuss in some
detail how people must deal with the burden of remembering
to unclip from these devices?)

In any case, am I right in thinking that the right FAQ does
not argue that the chief advantage of clipless pedals is any
increase in power?

I'm really just curious about the reasons that people give
for using clipless, not arguing against them. It's
interesting that the explanations are hard to find and,
well, er . . . not exactly overwhelmingly convincing.

Consider the safety claims. I estimate that 99% of the
regular posters on this newsgroup use clipless pedals
without even thinking about them, but that they would go
along with the somewhat vague safety theories. Now compare
that attitude to the arguments about helmets, where a large
number of the same regular posters disagree vehemently.

As for the power claims, I'd love to see some actual data,
as opposed to conjectures, but most people who address the
question seem to suggest that the improvement is slight, if
anything. On slow, dreadfully steep climbs, there seems to
be evidence that pulling up with our hind legs can help
briefly. But at anything but a slow cadence, I gather that
the evidence shows that we're fooling ourselves when we
think that we're pulling up on the back pedal.

This leaves comfort. A well-fitted clipless system might be
more comfortable, but I suspect that most people who believe
this didn't actually ride the same bicycles the same
distances without clipless pedals before switching to
clipless and finding impressive relief. And judging by posts
here, the chances seem fairly good that they will fiddle
around a good deal before they find a "correct" adjustment
of their clipless pedals that doesn't hurt.

I hope that yours feel fine--judging by your FAQ, you like
'em and that's fine with me. I'm just wondering how much is
fashion and how much is technical.

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

It's interesting that there's nothing about the advantages
of clipless pedals in the FAQ.

Carl Fogel

Carl: That's because you're reading the wrong FAQ!

http://www.chainreaction.com/pedalfaq.htm

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com

Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Dear Mike,

Oops! Forgive my elitist thinking.

Now looking through the explanation in the right FAQ, I see
four reasons . . .

1) Without clipless pedals, your feet might slip off.

(But even the explanation seems to admit that this is
unlikely.)

At least once in every day of mountain biking I feel myself being held to the
bike by one or more pedals. Doesn't happen often on the road, but sure makes
jumping a curb easier.

Quoted message said:

2) Clipless pedals force your foot to stay in the "correct"
position on the pedal.

(What determines this "correct" position? Do feet not
constrained by clipless pedals tend to move to "incorrect"
positions? Given the frequent complaints on the newsgroup,
is there a fair chance that the cleats will instead force
feet to some "incorrect" position?)

You do have the opportunity to figure out at leisure where your foot belongs and
then see that it goes there. You can do this in consultation with a coach or
other expert and you can make changes later. I do believe that the number of
people who complain of their pedal/cleat fit is fewer than the number of people
who would suffer some other foot/pedal alignment problem.

Quoted message said:

3) Clipless pedals (or perhaps the shoes?) prevent your feet
from bending painfully around the pedals

(Given the same pedal width and shoe sole, how can a cleat
change the amount that your toes can curl around the pedal?)

A sufficiently rigid sole without some sort of catch, latch, slot or other
fitment would be a little precarious. It's impossible to mold a shoe sole that
will grip every pedal in a way that suits every rider.

Quoted message said:

4) Clipless pedals relieve you from the burden of thinking
about putting your feet on the pedals.

(Were people really furrowing their brows and concentrating
on keeping their feet on the pedals before clipless pedals
were invented? And doesn't the FAQ go on to discuss in some
detail how people must deal with the burden of remembering
to unclip from these devices?)

Normal people very often get it wrong.

Forgetting to unclip, or more commonly neglecting to until it is too late, is at
worst an embarassment and rarely repeated. The same issue has existed with clip
and strap for near a hundred years.

Quoted message said:

In any case, am I right in thinking that the right FAQ does
not argue that the chief advantage of clipless pedals is any
increase in power?

"Chief" advantage? Don't know. Won't know.

I can say that along with being less comfortable on the bike and having my
pedaling motion go to hell, power is lost without pedals that grab my shoes.
Relearning to ride without them would certainly get most of it back. I am
confident I wouldn't get it all back and am buggered if I can think of some
blind test for the principle.

Quoted message said:

I'm really just curious about the reasons that people give
for using clipless, not arguing against them. It's
interesting that the explanations are hard to find and,
well, er . . . not exactly overwhelmingly convincing.

I simply find them very comfortable, in the same way that belts and bucket seat
are comfortable in either a sports car or bumpy truck. I go against the stream
in that I don't consider clipless to be any enormous improvement over strap and
clip, both work fine for me.

Quoted message said:

Consider the safety claims. I estimate that 99% of the
regular posters on this newsgroup use clipless pedals
without even thinking about them, but that they would go
along with the somewhat vague safety theories. Now compare
that attitude to the arguments about helmets, where a large
number of the same regular posters disagree vehemently.

Carl, that right there should be telling you something. At some point it gets to
be like explaining that skinny saddle to someone who's only ridden cruisers. You
just say "it's better, you'll see." Maybe they will or not, but at some point it
just defies explanation.

Quoted message said:

As for the power claims, I'd love to see some actual data,
as opposed to conjectures, but most people who address the
question seem to suggest that the improvement is slight, if
anything. On slow, dreadfully steep climbs, there seems to
be evidence that pulling up with our hind legs can help
briefly. But at anything but a slow cadence, I gather that
the evidence shows that we're fooling ourselves when we
think that we're pulling up on the back pedal.

Don't your feet get all floaty and inconsistent on the pedals when you get close
to spun out? Wouldn't it be nice to stretch your achilles out? Jump over stuff?
Perform a lateral trackstand? Okay, leave off that last one. Every competitive
cyclist in memory and a large majority of tourists and sport riders insist on
binding shoe to pedal and nearly all feel they can ride stronger that way.
There's gotta be something to that.

Quoted message said:

This leaves comfort. A well-fitted clipless system might be
more comfortable, but I suspect that most people who believe
this didn't actually ride the same bicycles the same
distances without clipless pedals before switching to
clipless and finding impressive relief. And judging by posts
here, the chances seem fairly good that they will fiddle
around a good deal before they find a "correct" adjustment
of their clipless pedals that doesn't hurt.

Nah, all my cleat set ups have been painless and pretty quick. Usually the same
day. One set of SPD's with no float I nailed on the first adjustment. I've also
had some that involved a daily or more adjustment for a few days. The only ones
you read about here are the ones that go badly. As for giving a fair test by
riding the same bike with and without equal distances, nobody's going to do
that. We don't have to. I don't have to periodically test whether I prefer
sandals or wing-tips for lazing on the beach.

Quoted message said:

I hope that yours feel fine--judging by your FAQ, you like
'em and that's fine with me. I'm just wondering how much is
fashion and how much is technical.

I'd say right there with the shorts.

Ron

RonSonic said:

I simply find them very comfortable, in the same way that belts and bucket seat
are comfortable in either a sports car or bumpy truck. I go against the stream
in that I don't consider clipless to be any enormous improvement over strap and
clip, both work fine for me.

I agree with that. I first tried clipless pedals after using a
snowboard with clip in bindings instead of the old strap-in style. I
expected the same sort of dramatic improvement on the bike. I was
left underwhelmed and dissapointed. I eventually gave up on the spds
and now just use platform pedals with clips. Mostly because I like
being able to use any shoes and I don't notice any downside.

RonSonic said:

Quoted message said:

Jeff Starr said:

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 01:37:15 -0600, [email hidden] wrote:

>Dear Lou,
>
>What are the benefits of clipless pedals?
>
>Carl Fogel

Carl, how many times are you going to ask that question? I believe the
various benefits, advantages, and concerns about clipless pedals, has
been explained to you, many times.

You're an inquisitive sort of guy, why not try a set. Buy a pair of
cycling shoes, that you will be able to use, with or without cleats.
That way, if you are one of the rare few, who don't like clipless, the
shoes will still be worthwhile for their stiffness. The shoes you will
wan,t will be SPD compatible. The Shimano shoes that Jobst recommends,
would be, just what you need.

I'll be looking forward to your first report, maybe titled
"Carl Tries Clipless".

Life is Good!
Jeff

Dear Jeff,

It could be that I'm hoping for better explanations.

Or I may enjoy reading replies like yours, which dodge the
question.

It's interesting that there's nothing about the advantages
of clipless pedals in the FAQ.

Which comparison interests you, the advantage over conventional clip and strap
or bare, non-binding pedals?

Ron

Dear Ron,

Cleats versus bare (nice phrase) is what interests me.

I think that the straps fell out of favor as soon the cleats
appeared (but I'd be happy to hear why--sometimes the
explanations for vanished equipment shed light on what's
new).

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

RonSonic said:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 14:18:40 GMT, Jeff Starr
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 01:37:15 -0600, [email hidden] wrote:
>
>
>>Dear Lou,
>>
>>What are the benefits of clipless pedals?
>>
>>Carl Fogel
>
>Carl, how many times are you going to ask that question? I believe the
>various benefits, advantages, and concerns about clipless pedals, has
>been explained to you, many times.
>
>You're an inquisitive sort of guy, why not try a set. Buy a pair of
>cycling shoes, that you will be able to use, with or without cleats.
>That way, if you are one of the rare few, who don't like clipless, the
>shoes will still be worthwhile for their stiffness. The shoes you will
>wan,t will be SPD compatible. The Shimano shoes that Jobst recommends,
>would be, just what you need.
>
>I'll be looking forward to your first report, maybe titled
>"Carl Tries Clipless".
>
>
>Life is Good!
>Jeff

Dear Jeff,

It could be that I'm hoping for better explanations.

Or I may enjoy reading replies like yours, which dodge the
question.

It's interesting that there's nothing about the advantages
of clipless pedals in the FAQ.

Which comparison interests you, the advantage over conventional clip and strap
or bare, non-binding pedals?

Ron

Dear Ron,

Cleats versus bare (nice phrase) is what interests me.

Okay, I picked that up in another post and blithered about the topic a bit.

Quoted message said:

I think that the straps fell out of favor as soon the cleats
appeared (but I'd be happy to hear why--sometimes the
explanations for vanished equipment shed light on what's
new).

That's actually a bit of a mystery to me. I haven't had a strap and clip setup
in many years so don't have a recent basis for comparison. Soon I'll have a
mountain bike set up with platforms and clips for commuting and erranding. But I
don't recall anything being wrong with the system. You did have to remember to
loosen a strap before stopping. Not a big deal.

Seems that as long you've got to start messing with silly shoes you might as
well go with clipless since the pedal's the less expensive part of the program.

Ron

Carl Fogel said:

I think that the straps fell out of favor as soon the cleats
appeared (but I'd be happy to hear why--sometimes the
explanations for vanished equipment shed light on what's
new).

Well first of all, cleats WERE used with straps. The old metal (sometimes
plastic) cleats had a slot that engaged the back edge of the pedal .
Normally, with the straps pulled tightly, you couldn't pull your foot free.
When preparing for a stop, you had to reach down and loosen the buckle on
the strap. In a panic stop or fall, you were locked in. Those cleats had no
friction pads for walking or "putting a foot down" and were a horror to walk
in.

As a kid, I started out riding in sneakers and no toe clips. Then I
progressed to sneakers with clips/straps (which at least prevented a foot
slipping off, and gave a more secure feel, especially when standing).

My only pedal related fall came when I was using sneakers with clips/straps.
On a steep climb, I cinched the straps real tight, and when two dogs charged
at me I forgot about the straps and stopped, only to fall slowly to the
ground while the dogs looked on in amusement.

Next, I switched to cycling shoes with cleats and clips/straps which allowed
applying power at both the top and bottom of the stroke. I usually left one
strap just loose enough to get a foot out in an emergency

In the early 90s, I switched to Look clipless which I consindered a huge
improvement in terms of ease of entry and disengagement. Finally, just this
year, I switched to SPD which has most of the advantages of Look, but also
allows normal walking.

For anything but short rides of a mile or less, I couldn't imagine riding
"bare" pedals with regular shoes. And I certainly wouldn't want to go back
to toe clips.

Art Harris

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Dear Mike,

Oops! Forgive my elitist thinking.

Now looking through the explanation in the right FAQ, I see
four reasons . . .

Carl, while your usual playfully argumentative style grates on my nerves
most of the time, it is, in this case, entirely appropriate. I
sometimes think that clipless pedals are only suitable for those who
care more about being competitive than those who just want to get some
outdoor fun and exercise on a bike. But, I have to admit, that after
having used a wide variety of them extensively, all pedal systems have
their shortcomings. I believe there can be an increase in power that is
inversely proportional to the rider's skill in 'spinning circles' rather
than 'pounding squares' regarding their pedalling technique. A good
spinner won't see much benefit going to clipless. I should clarify that
I am comparing clipless systems to platforms without toe clips. I
intensely dislike (OK, hate) toe clips and would never recommend them.
But platform pedals come in many styles, each with varying degrees of
grip and comfort. I enjoyed using big BMX style pegged platforms almost
exclusively for many years. The big platform is incredibly comfortable
and the grippy pegs make for almost a clipless level of connectedness to
the pedals. The big downside is that they are highly efficient at
removing large quantities of skin from your shins in the rare event that
you don't connect with them in the right way. The older style caged
platforms associated with toe clips are lighter and (somewhat) easier on
the shins, but far less grippy. Rubber platforms seen on casual bikes
like beach cruisers are reasonably safe for the shins, but can be very
slippery, and good quality specimens aren't common.

Quoted message said:

2) Clipless pedals force your foot to stay in the "correct"
position on the pedal.

(What determines this "correct" position? Do feet not
constrained by clipless pedals tend to move to "incorrect"
positions? Given the frequent complaints on the newsgroup,
is there a fair chance that the cleats will instead force
feet to some "incorrect" position?)

Strongly agree here. With platforms the rider has somewhat more freedom
to put his foot where it is most comfortable.

Quoted message said:

3) Clipless pedals (or perhaps the shoes?) prevent your feet
from bending painfully around the pedals

(Given the same pedal width and shoe sole, how can a cleat
change the amount that your toes can curl around the pedal?)

Feet will only bend around the pedal, whether platform or clipless, if
the sole is too flexible and/or the platform is too small. With BMX
style platforms, just about any shoe can be appropriate because the
large platform provides all the needed support. Clipless systems
require good quality specialty shoes with stiff soles. If the soles are
too flexible, the dreaded 'hot foot' may develop, especially with small
MTB style cleats.

Quoted message said:

4) Clipless pedals relieve you from the burden of thinking
about putting your feet on the pedals.

This really only applies to off-road cycling. But is in turn
compensated for by the burden of worrying about what will happen if you
start going south off the trail without the ability to do a quick bail-
out.

Quoted message said:

Consider the safety claims. I estimate that 99% of the
regular posters on this newsgroup use clipless pedals
without even thinking about them, but that they would go
along with the somewhat vague safety theories. Now compare
that attitude to the arguments about helmets, where a large
number of the same regular posters disagree vehemently.

The safety claims sound like weak rationalizations to me. Feet could be
rattled off the pedals, but then the ability to rapidly get off the
pedals is often a safety advantage too.

Quoted message said:

This leaves comfort. A well-fitted clipless system might be
more comfortable, but I suspect that most people who believe
this didn't actually ride the same bicycles the same
distances without clipless pedals before switching to
clipless and finding impressive relief. And judging by posts
here, the chances seem fairly good that they will fiddle
around a good deal before they find a "correct" adjustment
of their clipless pedals that doesn't hurt.

I hope that yours feel fine--judging by your FAQ, you like
'em and that's fine with me. I'm just wondering how much is
fashion and how much is technical.

Carl Fogel

In my opinion, it is mostly fashion and a belief by the inexperienced
that they need to have them. Then let's not ignore the fact that bike
dealers make extra lucrative sales by selling shoes and pedals, instead
of pedals alone. I know that some of them will hate me for saying that,
but I think we should talk about the elephant that is sitting in the
living room. Same with helmets. Ever meet a bike dealer that wasn't
pushing helmets as the only way for little children to avoid a grisly
death? I haven't. Shields up, Captain!

Peter Cole says...

Quoted message said:

The primary benefit of clipless pedals is safety. When riding hard, a
foot slip off the pedal can be dangerous. The conventional solution for
many years has been straps. Straps eliminate the threat, but can be
uncomfortable, a bit of a nuisance to get in & out of, and can trap the
foot in a crash.

There is a slight efficiency advantage to any foot retention method in
that it eliminates the need to keep pressure on the pedal at the bottom
of the stroke just to keep contact with the pedal.

Keeping feet on pedals is especially a problem while mountain biking, I
think it was the popularity of this form of cycling that really
advanced the use of clipless pedals. I disagree somwhat with a prior
poster's assertion that a hybrid bike, by nature, doesn't need
clipless. Hybrid bikes are designed to be ridden on unpaved surfaces,
and the newer models, being light and high geared, support fast riding.
That to me is a very appropriate place for clipless pedals.

The question is how WILL it be ridden? A person who intends to ride
hard and often isn't likely to choose a hybrid. I think you are making
the mistake that what is appropriate for you is appropriate for
everybody. I just think that given his level of experience, he
shouldn't burden himself with a clipless system just yet.