Induction - Net carbs?

Net carbs is a scam, so don't believe it.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"CCB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all - I'm on my third day and still going great. I was reading some of
the old posts to this group and saw a remark about net carbs. I understand
the net carb thing, but when I'm on induction, is it a total of 20 carbs
or 20 net carbs? Thanks

Chris
4/1/05
153/153/120

In article <[email hidden]>, chris.berdel@no-
spam.gmail.com says...

Quoted message said:

Hi all - I'm on my third day and still going great. I was reading some of
the old posts to this group and saw a remark about net carbs. I understand
the net carb thing, but when I'm on induction, is it a total of 20 carbs or
20 net carbs? Thanks

Net carbs.

--
Saffire
205/142/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

"CCB" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Hi all - I'm on my third day and still going great. I was reading
some of the old posts to this group and saw a remark about net
carbs. I understand the net carb thing, but when I'm on induction,
is it a total of 20 carbs or 20 net carbs? Thanks

Chris
4/1/05
153/153/120

Net carbs are all you ever need to worry about. The rest falls under the
catagory of "This too will Pass".

--
No Bread Crumbs were hurt in the making of this Meal.
Type 2 Diabetic Since Aug 2004
1AC- 7.2, 7.3, 5.5, 5.6 mmol
Weight from 265 down to 219 lbs. and dropping.
Continuing to be Manitoban

Even fiber?

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

Net carbs is a scam, so don't believe it.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"CCB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all - I'm on my third day and still going great. I was reading some of
the old posts to this group and saw a remark about net carbs. I understand
the net carb thing, but when I'm on induction, is it a total of 20 carbs
or 20 net carbs? Thanks

Chris
4/1/05
153/153/120

Welcome and WTG on making the low-carb choice. I love it! By now you
should be in ketosis and feeling the wonderous effects of natural
appetite suppressant of this way of eating. Without it I simply would
not last!

The whole net-carb issue has been muddled and reinvented into something
strange and alien that you should be questioning! The best
explanation I have found on the whole mess comes from a fellow named
Mendosa . His article really helped me sort through the swarmy world of
"net" carbs.

Here is the link: http://www.mendosa.com/netcarbs.htm

Basically, deduct fiber and nothing else and you should be ok.

Oh and repeat this simple mantra often: Sugar Alcohols are Evil.

=)

Best Wishes~!

Terra
http://journals.aol.com/terranova0/MyLowCarbJourney/

Which kind of fiber?

There are many types, and this just goes to show how muddled the whole
situation can become, once you start rationalizing the use of some types of
carbs.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even fiber?

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

Net carbs is a scam, so don't believe it.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"CCB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all - I'm on my third day and still going great. I was reading some
of
the old posts to this group and saw a remark about net carbs. I
understand
the net carb thing, but when I'm on induction, is it a total of 20
carbs
or 20 net carbs? Thanks

Chris
4/1/05
153/153/120

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

Which kind of fiber?

The kind on the label where it says fiber. [censored], I dunno.

Quoted message said:

There are many types, and this just goes to show how muddled the whole
situation can become, once you start rationalizing the use of some types of
carbs.

I guess it matters if you're trying to stick to a specific number.
Honestly though, when I was losing weight, I lost just as quickly on 35g
- 40g as I did on 20g or less. 'course all my carbs came from lettuce,
broccoli, spinach, and the small amount in eggs and cheese.

Quoted message said:

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even fiber?

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

Net carbs is a scam, so don't believe it.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"CCB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Hi all - I'm on my third day and still going great. I was reading some
> of
> the old posts to this group and saw a remark about net carbs. I
> understand
> the net carb thing, but when I'm on induction, is it a total of 20
> carbs
> or 20 net carbs? Thanks
>
> Chris
> 4/1/05
> 153/153/120
>

Monsur Fromage du Pollet said:

"CCB" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Hi all - I'm on my third day and still going great. I was reading
some of the old posts to this group and saw a remark about net
carbs. I understand the net carb thing, but when I'm on induction,
is it a total of 20 carbs or 20 net carbs? Thanks

Chris
4/1/05
153/153/120

Net carbs are all you ever need to worry about. The rest falls under the
catagory of "This too will Pass".

Well stated.

--
................................

Keepsake gift for young girls.
Unique and personal one-of-a-kind.
Builds strong minds 12 ways.
Guaranteed satisfaction
- courteous money back
- keep bonus gifts

http://www.alicebook.com

Which types of fiber? I deduct them all. And I count sugar alcohols
at half their carbs. That is working for _me_ so far, anyway.

Unfortunately, on the SS NetCarb Titanic, it's every sailor for
themself.

But you do make a good point. I may rethink my strategy. Perhaps I
should count fiber at 1/3....poss 1/2 hmmm. Will get back to you.

*smiles*

Terra
http://journals.aol.com/terranova0/MyLowCarbJourney/

You were doing it correctly by deducting all fibre. SA's are controversial
but the general rule is to count them at 1/2 the carb count. A lot of
people, like me, don't count SA's at all because we don't digest them. I
know this because more than a couple of grams and I get horrendous gas or
worse. :-)

Terra said:

Which types of fiber? I deduct them all. And I count sugar alcohols
at half their carbs. That is working for _me_ so far, anyway.

Unfortunately, on the SS NetCarb Titanic, it's every sailor for
themself.

But you do make a good point. I may rethink my strategy. Perhaps I
should count fiber at 1/3....poss 1/2 hmmm. Will get back to you.

-----
Bev

Depends; really does. Many types of fiber are eventually digested (or
somewhat digested) by bacteria in the intestine.

Quoting Luna:

Quoted message said:

Even fiber?

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

Net carbs is a scam, so don't believe it.

I should have added that whether you count SA's is dependent on how you
react to them. If you have no digestion upsets, you are able to digest
them, so continue to count them as 1/2 the carbs.

Bev-Ann said:

You were doing it correctly by deducting all fibre. SA's are controversial
but the general rule is to count them at 1/2 the carb count. A lot of
people, like me, don't count SA's at all because we don't digest them. I
know this because more than a couple of grams and I get horrendous gas or
worse. :-)

-----
Bev

They are fermented in the large intestine and digested by bacteria, not by
you.

on Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:51:58 -0500, Suze <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Depends; really does. Many types of fiber are eventually digested (or
somewhat digested) by bacteria in the intestine.

-----
Bev

Quoting Bev-Ann:

Quoted message said:

on Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:51:58 -0500, Suze <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Depends; really does. Many types of fiber are eventually digested (or
somewhat digested) by bacteria in the intestine.

Quoted message said:

They are fermented in the large intestine and digested by bacteria, not by
you.

What's your source for that (Pro Power book, perhaps)?

Based on the conclusions I've drawn from what I've read, whether or not
some of the carbs are *ultimately* absorbed by the body can vary. One
example; difference between soluble and non-soluble fiber.

"Suze" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoting Bev-Ann:

Quoted message said:

on Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:51:58 -0500, Suze <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Depends; really does. Many types of fiber are eventually digested (or
somewhat digested) by bacteria in the intestine.

Quoted message said:

They are fermented in the large intestine and digested by bacteria, not
by
you.

What's your source for that (Pro Power book, perhaps)?

She's making it up as she goes along.

HTH

Various nutrition sources including Protein Power, Atkins, scientific
websites, etc.
Please enlighten us with how you reached your conclusions (including
sources). I'm curious to see what explanation you've got for the
difference between soluble and insoluble fibre that's going to be different
from known science, specifically that neither are digested.

on Sun, 3 Apr 2005 21:07:53 -0500, Suze <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What's your source for that (Pro Power book, perhaps)?

Based on the conclusions I've drawn from what I've read, whether or not
some of the carbs are *ultimately* absorbed by the body can vary. One
example; difference between soluble and non-soluble fiber.

-----
Bev

Thanks for your comments - I'll check out the link you posted! I appreciate
the assistance! Thanks

Chris
153/153/120

"Terra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Welcome and WTG on making the low-carb choice. I love it! By now you
should be in ketosis and feeling the wonderous effects of natural
appetite suppressant of this way of eating. Without it I simply would
not last!

The whole net-carb issue has been muddled and reinvented into something
strange and alien that you should be questioning! The best
explanation I have found on the whole mess comes from a fellow named
Mendosa . His article really helped me sort through the swarmy world of
"net" carbs.

Here is the link: http://www.mendosa.com/netcarbs.htm

Basically, deduct fiber and nothing else and you should be ok.

Oh and repeat this simple mantra often: Sugar Alcohols are Evil.

=)

Best Wishes~!

Terra
http://journals.aol.com/terranova0/MyLowCarbJourney/

Quoting Bev-Ann:
[...]

Quoted message said:

I'm curious to see what explanation you've got for the
difference between soluble and insoluble fibre that's going to be different
from known science, specifically that neither are digested.

Pfffft. It's not "known science".

Nondigestible Oligo- and Polysaccharides (Dietary Fiber): Their
Physiology and Role in Human Health and Food, Comprehensive Reviews in
Food Science and Safety, V3 2002
http://www.ift.org/pdfs/crfsfs/crfsfsv01n3p073-092ms20001598.pdf

The Journal of Nutrition Vol. 127 No. 10 October 1997, pp. 2000-2005
The Western Lowland Gorilla Diet Has Implications for the Health of
Humans and Other Hominoids
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/127/10/2000

USDA Food Database
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR12/sr12_doc.htm
" [...] the Nutrition Labeling and Education Act (NLEA)
of calculating calories from 4-4-9 kcal/g for protein, carbohydrate,
and fat, respectively or from 4-4-9 kcal/g for protein, ***CARBOHYDRATE
MINUS INSOLUBLE FIBER***, and fat." (emphasis mine)

MFW discussion on fiber and calories:
http://tinyurl.com/4f7kh

GIYF if you want to read more on the subject.

Suze said:

Quoting Bev-Ann:

Quoted message said:

I'm curious to see what explanation you've got for the
difference between soluble and insoluble fibre that's going to be

different

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from known science, specifically that neither are digested.

Pfffft. It's not "known science".

Soluble fiber isn't digested by human enzymes, but that is not
the same as saying it isn't digested at all. Soluble fiber
is digested by human intestinal bacteria. For comparison,
insoluble fiber is digested by termite intestinal bacteria.

The test is simple. Eat several meals that are very high in
insoluble fiber. As high a ratio of insoluble fiber as
possible, say several spoons of psyllium husks. A few days
later eat several meals that are very high in soluble fiber.
As high a ratio of soluble fiber as possible, say several
spoons of inulin (fruit fiber) powder. Which one gives you
gas bloating? That gas bloating comes from the soluble fiber
being digested. Hint - legumes (beans) are very high in
soluble fiber.

Food digested by human digestive enzymes all goes to the
human who digested it. Food digested by intestinal bacteria
gets partially absorbed by the human, partially by the
bacteria. Exactly what ratio, no one can tell. It will
vary by more variables than can easily be figured.

Because of this difference between soluble and insoluble
fiber, Dr Atkins deducted insoluble fiber starting a very
long time ago. Just check the carb counts of some items
in the 1973 and 1993 editions of his book and this can be
seen. Look closely at the listed counts for different types
of nuts.

The problem is labels only list fiber, not which type. To
figure out which type it takes looking them up in books
that do list the two types. It's far too much work.

So it's correct to deduct insoluble fiber whether you
deduct soluble fiber or not. But it is not practical to
figure out which is which.

Why was fiber deduction added to the Atkins plan in 2003?
The reasons weren't given in any of the books, and the
reasons weren't listed on the web pages either. I offer
a couple of reasons, my own speculations:

1) It gets people to eat more veggies during Induction.
Since very many people ignore more than half of the
book and stay on Induction, the more veggies eaten
during Induction the better. Even tough our bodies
don't care whether we deduct so our CCLLs are the same
food with or without deduction, many never find their
CCLL.

2) Protein Power may have been the biggest competition
before South Beach came out, and PP deducts fiber.
Take a strength away from the competition as a strategy.

3) Eating more fiber is healthy.

4) The count is just a number. Deducting fiber basically
just gives a different number. It introduces a bias
that pretty much cancels out later in the plan so it
doesn't really matter. The count per the 1973 system
theoretically was zero, but if you look at what was
counted as zero (egg, dairy, salad and such) the actual
food wasn't much different.

The cool thing about the count just being a number is
folks like lower numbers as long as the number isn't ever
zero. (That mistake from the 1973 book won't be
repeated). Deducting fiber gives a lower number, so
folks will feel better about getting to, say 50 grams
per day. Yet in the end that 50 is really 60ish total.