Campy Hubs

If you're going to upgrade something, make it the rear hub.

Jon

"Robert Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering having a rear wheel built with a Campy hub. What I want to know is if I should
spend twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp

hub

Quoted message said:

or settle for the Veloce at half the price? Is there a big enough quality difference to warrant
spending more? Thanks in advance.

Rob Strickland

Jon said:

If you're going to upgrade something, make it the rear hub.

Umm. Why?

There are two things a rear hub does: roll and weigh. OK, it has to be strong enough to not break,
but basically you are paying for smooth rolling and light weight, within the range of a durable
component.

I am not clear on the distinctions between this year's Campy models, but remember that current
low-end Campy stuff is usually passed-down designs from last year's high end stuff. OK, there are
and were exceptions, but that is basically the idea, that and the substitution of lighter,
higher-tech materials for the higher priced stuff. The weight difference is not significant except
for elite time-trialers or hill-climbers, and I think the smoothness will be comparable, also -- and
way below the level that would effect performance.

I have had one Campy hub not work well for me. It was a Record hub that had been abused by a former
owner, and was not worth repairing, it turned out. I replaced it with another second-hand hub, this
time a Chorus or Veloce, I think, and have had no trouble.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little statesmen
and philosophers and divines. --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson

Jon said:

If you're going to upgrade something, make it the rear hub.

Quoted message said:

Jon

After some reflection, I think this is good advice.

If you ride a lot, probably the brakes are your biggest safety upgrade. If you ride a lot, probably
the rear hub is your most important durability upgrade.

The only serious part i've ever had snap on one of my bicycles, was the all-steel bolted rear axle -
on a decent-quality steel high-flange hub. The rear hub carries at least 60% of the weight of the
rider. When you pay extra for hubs, you usually get better manufacturing tolerances (long life),
hardened heat-treated shells (long life), and maybe even higher quality bearings (longer life), etc.

In other words, the extra money might actually make the part last so long that you get a cheaper set
of hubs, per mile, if you buy quality.

Just don't pay TOO MUCH extra, whereup you get titanium or carbon [censored] that flexes and seizes and
wears out before its time is due.

- Don

Do you do your own service maintenance? The Centaur -> Record hubs are a dream to re-pack
and adjust!

"Robert Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I'm considering having a rear wheel built with a Campy hub. What I want to know is if I should
spend twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp hub or settle for the Veloce at half the
price? Is there a big enough quality difference to warrant spending more? Thanks in advance.

Donald Gillies said:

Jon said:

If you're going to upgrade something, make it the rear hub.

Quoted message said:

Jon

After some reflection, I think this is good advice.

I disagree.

Quoted message said:

If you ride a lot, probably the brakes are your biggest safety upgrade.

Of course, more expensive brakes does not really mean better-stopping brakes.

Quoted message said:

If you ride a lot, probably the rear hub is your most important durability upgrade.

Lots of parts are more fragile than a modern cassette hub.

Quoted message said:

The only serious part i've ever had snap on one of my bicycles, was the all-steel bolted rear axle
- on a decent-quality steel high-flange hub.

This is a freewheel hub, no doubt. Frankly, a high-quality steel hub has not been manufactured in a
very long time. The axle you broke was probably older than most readers of this newsgroup, if it was
"decent-quality", which suggests it gave good service.

Freewheel hubs often caused broken axles -- especially for heavier riders and loaded tourists. This
is a thing of the past with cassette hubs, and the OP was deciding between two modern cassette hubs,
where axle breakage is near zero.

The rear hub carries at least 60% of the weight of the rider.

Quoted message said:

When you pay extra for hubs, you usually get better manufacturing tolerances (long life), hardened
heat-treated shells (long life), and maybe even higher quality bearings (longer life), etc.

You also pay, through the nose usually, for light weight. But the shells are hardly hardened -- the
cups are separate pressed-in pieces. And good bearings are less than $.05 apiece.

All Campy hubs of a given design (which is changing now and the fancier design is migrating down to
cheaper models) have exactly the same bearings, cups and cones, and axles.

Many parts are more of a durability issue than hubs. Forgetting rims, tires, cables, brake blocks,
chains, cogs, and chainrings, all of which are subject to regular wear and need to be replaced
frequently, probably the pedals or rear derailleur are the most subject to failure, followed by any
bearings that are not servicable, such as bottom brackets.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little statesmen
and philosophers and divines. --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson

David L. Johnson said:

I am not clear on the distinctions between this year's Campy models, but remember that current
low-end Campy stuff is usually passed-down designs from last year's high end stuff. OK, there are
and were exceptions

Yes, and the hubs in question are exceptions. When such a specific question is asked, perhaps _some_
specific knowledge might help the OP........

Quoted message said:

, but that is basically the idea, that and the substitution of lighter, higher-tech materials for
the higher priced stuff.

In this case, it's not just the materials of some small parts. The whole design is very different.
Current Veloce uses maintenance-free cartridge bearings for the rear and a regular cheap-type hub
for the front. Centaur's use oversized aluminium axles with a special threadless cone feature: all
parts are replaceable and easy to adjust & maintain.

Quoted message said:

The weight difference is not significant except for elite time-trialers or hill-climbers

The difference is 181 grams - which is a lot for a pair of hubs. Can't build a whole lightweight
bike (if that's what one wants to do) with the attitude that the weight of each individual component
is insignificant.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

David L. Johnson said:

I am not clear on the distinctions between this year's Campy models, but remember that current
low-end Campy stuff is usually passed-down designs from last year's high end stuff. OK, there are
and were exceptions

Yes, and the hubs in question are exceptions. When such a specific question is asked, perhaps
_some_ specific knowledge might help the OP........

Actually, it does apply to the hubs. The previous design was used in all 8-speed and early 9-speed
hubs. Record 10-speed started the new design, which has now migrated down a notch.

Quoted message said:

In this case, it's not just the materials of some small parts. The whole design is very different.
Current Veloce uses maintenance-free cartridge bearings for the rear and a regular cheap-type hub
for the front.

Frankly, I prefer the "cheap-type" hubs. What you really mean is ball-and-cone design, which is not
only easily serviced, but in many ways superior to "maintenance-free" cartridges. Way #1 is that the
designation "maintenance-free" belongs in quotes.

Quoted message said:

Centaur's use oversized aluminium axles with a special threadless cone feature: all parts are
replaceable and easy to adjust & maintain.

I tried last year to replace the cups on my Record hub of the same design. Not available. Yes, in
theory they are replacable....

Quoted message said:

The difference is 181 grams - which is a lot for a pair of hubs.

The OP was talking about a single hub, not a pair.

Quoted message said:

Can't build a whole lightweight bike (if that's what one wants to do) with the attitude that the
weight of each individual component is insignificant.

True, but a net of 100g is not worth all that much extra money.

Since the Record hub I had was trashed when I got it, it is perhaps not a fair comparison, but my
experience with it was not all that favorable. The "special threadless cone" seemed to me to be a
particularly cheap design, being secured by a split sleeve that needs some attention to get aligned
properly. The cups and cones in general were very lightweight, but the flipside of that is that they
are flimsy. The bearings themselves are very small, which is not the best design choice, and because
the cups are reduced to the least possible cross-section it would be impossible to use loose balls.
You have to use the bearing retainer.

For me, the best features of these hubs are their weight (they are light) and the ease in final
adjustment. But I've been adjusting cup&cone bearings for a while, and it is not rocket science.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. _`\(,_ | That is easy. All
you have to do is tell them they are being (_)/ (_) | attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for
lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any <country. --
Hermann Goering

robert-<< What I want to know is if I should spend twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp hub
or settle for the Veloce at half the price? Is there a big enough quality difference to warrant
spending more? >><BR><BR>

Not quality but weight. The Centaur/Chorus/Centaur hub design is a nice one...but each will make for
a nice wheel...if built well..

Don't get the 'half the price' thing tho-

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

robert-<< What I want to know is if I should spend twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp

hub

Quoted message said:

or settle for the Veloce at half the price? Is there a big enough quality difference to warrant
spending more? >><BR><BR>

Not quality but weight. The Centaur/Chorus/Centaur hub design is a nice one...but each will make
for a nice wheel...if built well..

Don't get the 'half the price' thing tho-

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

That's because you're thinking Colorado prices. I live in Germany and the best price I've been able
to find is 51 Euro for the Veloce rear 9/10 speed hub and 103 Euro for the Centaur rear 9/10 speed
hub. Is Centaur worth the extra 50 bucks if weight isn't an issue? Thanks.

Rob Strickland

David L. Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am not clear on the distinctions between this year's Campy models, but remember that current
low-end Campy stuff is usually passed-down designs from last year's high end stuff. OK, there
are and were exceptions

Yes, and the hubs in question are exceptions. When such a specific question is asked, perhaps
_some_ specific knowledge might help the OP........

Actually, it does apply to the hubs.

But that's misleading in this case because the OP was specifically asking about Centaur versus
Veloce. The Record technology has not moved down to Veloce yet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In this case, it's not just the materials of some small parts. The whole design is very
different. Current Veloce uses maintenance-free cartridge bearings for the rear and a regular
cheap-type hub for the front.

Frankly, I prefer the "cheap-type" hubs. What you really mean is ball-and-cone design, which is
not only easily serviced, but in many ways superior to "maintenance-free" cartridges. Way #1 is
that the designation "maintenance-free" belongs in quotes.

No, I don't mean that at all. I mean Veloce FRONT hubs (ball-and-cone) are of similar quality
to some of the cheapest and poorest unbranded hubs. Centaur hubs (which are also ball-and-cone)
are superior.

I happen to think the REAR Veloce is ok and good value for money (Centaur is superior but costs much
more). I'm am still using a Mirage (same design) on one bike that is a few years old and still runs
perfectly.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

But that's misleading in this case because the OP was specifically asking about Centaur versus
Veloce. The Record technology has not moved down to Veloce yet.

ps......But fair enough to say Centaur uses Record technology.

~PB

"Robert Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering having a rear wheel built with a Campy hub. What I want to know is if I should
spend twice as much and get the Centaur rear 9/10sp

hub

Quoted message said:

or settle for the Veloce at half the price? Is there a big enough quality difference to warrant
spending more? Thanks in advance.

The Veloce uses cartridge bearings which seem reasonable in tghe application and haven't been a
problem in the five or six years since they changed. Centaur uses Campagnolo's new big bearing
system. That bearing is the same caged ball unit for front and rear on all hubs Centaur and up. They
are a dream to service and adjust, definitely the best loose-ball system I know of.

Centaur has one small foible. The clever hub adjusters lock with a small 3mm allen bolt on Chorus
and Record but Centaurs come with a Phillips head screw. Get an allen bolt for that and adustment
is a snap.

So even though the new Campagnolo system is seductive, cartridge bearings make some sense in a
bicycle wheel. Both designs are nice.

I'm curious about your quoted prices. Here they are $68 and $116 ( not $146) respectively
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

I'm curious about your quoted prices. Here they are $68 and $116 ( not $146) respectively

Checking some random mailorder bike shop here in .nl, a centaur vs veloce hub*set* is 159 versus 69
euros, or somewhere else in .de rears only 103 and 51 euros respectively. European pricing does in
fact appear to put centaur hubs at pretty much twice the price of veloce.

Jasper