Re: Replace SunTour freewheel w/ Shimano?

russellseaton1 said:

Quoted message said:

Part of the tinkering by the Dreaded Previous Owner (as we call them

in

Quoted message said:

sports cars circles) was on the 6-speed Suntour freewheel. The lowest

Quoted message said:

gear is an 18, which makes life difficult for an older guy like me

who

Quoted message said:

lives in a very hilly area.

So I guess my options would be to scour the boondocks for old SunTour

Quoted message said:

sprockets in the 24-30 tooth range,

I think you're dreaming there. Finding replacement sprockets was never
really easy, and by now will be impossible.

Quoted message said:

or to replace the freewheel

Quoted message said:

altogether. The latter course seems to promise more success.

It also makes more sense, since it probably has been a long, long time
since that freewheel saw any oil.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So the base question is whether this new 7-speed freewheel would

replace

Quoted message said:

the older SunTour 6-speed.

It really depends on how old this 6-speed was. Mid-80s, if it is, would
mean a 126mm spread, which should give you enough room. But earlier
6-speeds were actually jammed into space meant for 5-speed freewheels, so
used "ultra" chains and closer spacing. Those would have 120mm spacing,
usually. If it is the 120mm spacing (which it probably is not) you would
have more trouble finding a freewheel that fits. In any event you can
re-space the rear triangle (especially if it is 126mm) and even use an
8-speed freewheel, if you can find one.

Quoted message said:

For $20 your problems are solved. Your biggest problem will be getting
the old freewheel off.

That is actually pretty easy, if the threads were greased originally, and
if you use the right technique. Surprisingly few shop mechanics know the
technique any more, as I once found out to the detriment of my old
freewheel.

Here's what you do. Get a bench vice. Get the right freewheel remover
tool, which is somewhat brand-specific. Take the quick-release off, put
the tool on, and put the quick-release back on to hold the tool against
the freewheel snugly, but not too tightly. Clamp the tool into the vice.
Grab the tire (it's easier with the tire on), and pull as hard as you can.
The threads are normal right-hand threads, but if the wheel was used much
at all the freewheel will be on there very, very tightly. Pull harder. It
will eventually come loose. Oh, then loosen the quick-release as you
unscrew the freewheel, or you will break the q/r.

Trying this without securing the tool to the freewheel can easily round
off the prongs that grab the freewheel (if it has them, as I think SunTour
does), and just using a wrench will probably not give you enough leverage,
leading to kicking the wrench, or hitting it with a big hammer, both of
which can cause collateral damage.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a
_`\(,_ | conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw
(_)/ (_) |

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For $20 your problems are solved. Your biggest problem will be

getting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the old freewheel off.

That is actually pretty easy, if the threads were greased originally,

and

Quoted message said:

if you use the right technique. Surprisingly few shop mechanics know

the

Quoted message said:

technique any more, as I once found out to the detriment of my old
freewheel.

Here's what you do. Get a bench vice. Get the right freewheel

remover

Quoted message said:

tool, which is somewhat brand-specific. Take the quick-release off,

put

Quoted message said:

the tool on, and put the quick-release back on to hold the tool

against

Quoted message said:

the freewheel snugly, but not too tightly. Clamp the tool into the

vice.

Quoted message said:

Grab the tire (it's easier with the tire on), and pull as hard as you

can.

Quoted message said:

The threads are normal right-hand threads, but if the wheel was used

much

Quoted message said:

at all the freewheel will be on there very, very tightly. Pull

harder. It

Quoted message said:

will eventually come loose. Oh, then loosen the quick-release as you
unscrew the freewheel, or you will break the q/r.

But if you don't have a bench vise and have a 2 prong Suntour tool
instead of the better 4 prong tool, then getting the freewheel off is
the hardest part. Spending $10 for a 4 prong tool for this one job
just didn't make much sense to me recently. And I still would have had
to find a bench vise somewhere. So I paid the bike shop the $5.30 to
take it off using their bench vise and 4 prong tool.

russellseaton1 said:

But if you don't have a bench vise and have a 2 prong Suntour tool
instead of the better 4 prong tool, then getting the freewheel off is
the hardest part. Spending $10 for a 4 prong tool for this one job
just didn't make much sense to me recently. And I still would have had
to find a bench vise somewhere. So I paid the bike shop the $5.30 to
take it off using their bench vise and 4 prong tool.

You're lucky the shop knew what to do. When I made a similar decision,
the freewheel came back to me in a bag. They had taken the body apart and
took a pipe wrench to the inside. They said the tool didn't work. I bet
they tried it without the quick-release, and with said pipe wrench instead
of a vise.

Bench vises are good to have around, and are really pretty cheap. Mine
was especially so, since I inherited it from my father-in-law.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |

Russell Seaton1 said:

But if you don't have a bench vise and have a 2 prong SunTour tool
instead of the better 4 prong tool, then getting the freewheel off
is the hardest part. Spending $10 for a 4 prong tool for this one
job just didn't make much sense to me recently. And I still would
have had to find a bench vise somewhere. So I paid the bike shop
the $5.30 to take it off using their bench vise and 4 prong tool.

The four prong tool is most likely essential for removal. On the
other hand, if you just get sprockets that suit you from one of the
bicycle shops that carry them all you need is a pair of "chain whips"

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/chainwhip.html

To remove the small (first sprocket) to get access to the rest of
them. When putting this sprocket back on remember to lubricate its
threads with anti-seize compound and if you get the freewheel off to
do the same with the its threads. This will make future removal far
easier than without.

You don't necessarily need a bench vise. A 12" Crescent wrench will
also do the trick although it is easier with a bench vise. Don't feel
compelled to buy one. You can go to your local bicycle shop with the
four prong remover engaged, held in place by the QR skewer and ask
them to stick it in their vise and remove it. If you are a regular
customer, that may be a freebee and you won't need to do that next
time if you use anti-seize compound.

Of course, if you plan on dumping the SunTour freewheel then proceed
as suggested above and have it taken off.

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

You don't necessarily need a bench vise. A 12" Crescent wrench will
also do the trick although it is easier with a bench vise. Don't

feel

Quoted message said:

compelled to buy one. You can go to your local bicycle shop with the
four prong remover engaged, held in place by the QR skewer and ask
them to stick it in their vise and remove it. If you are a regular
customer, that may be a freebee and you won't need to do that next
time if you use anti-seize compound.

Umm... a clarification. After breaking the freewheel loose with the
remover (it should spin freely after the first 1/4 to 1/2 turn), remove
the QR from the assembly. This will keep the freewheel from jamming
against the tool.

Jeff

Jeff Wills said:

Quoted message said:

You don't necessarily need a bench vise. A 12" Crescent wrench
will also do the trick although it is easier with a bench vise.
Don't feel compelled to buy one. You can go to your local bicycle
shop with the four prong remover engaged, held in place by the QR
skewer and ask them to stick it in their vise and remove it. If
you are a regular customer, that may be a freebee and you won't
need to do that next time if you use anti-seize compound.

Quoted message said:

Umm... a clarification. After breaking the freewheel loose with the
remover (it should spin freely after the first 1/4 to 1/2 turn),
remove the QR from the assembly. This will keep the freewheel from
jamming against the tool.

Yes, correct. The freewheel has a larger thread pitch than the skewer
and will bind if the skewer is not unscrewed a bit, ahead of the
exiting freewheel.

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Russell Seaton1 said:

But if you don't have a bench vise and have a 2 prong SunTour tool
instead of the better 4 prong tool, then getting the freewheel off
is the hardest part. Spending $10 for a 4 prong tool for this one
job just didn't make much sense to me recently. And I still would
have had to find a bench vise somewhere. So I paid the bike shop
the $5.30 to take it off using their bench vise and 4 prong tool.

The four prong tool is most likely essential for removal. On the
other hand, if you just get sprockets that suit you from one of the
bicycle shops that carry them all you need is a pair of "chain whips"

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/chainwhip.html

To remove the small (first sprocket) to get access to the rest of
them. When putting this sprocket back on remember to lubricate its
threads with anti-seize compound and if you get the freewheel off to
do the same with the its threads.

Replies to this thread seem to assume the OP has the later model Winner
Pro freewheel, with only one cog threaded to the freewheel body*, the
rest splined. Also, it's the Winner Pro that has a four-prong remover.

Could just as well be a New Winner, where all but the two largest cogs
are threaded, and there are only two "prong recesses" in the body, so a
four-prong remover cannot be used.

Here's how to tell which body: Winner Pro has a gold/bronze face plate
right around where the axle sticks out past the freewheel, and
requires/allows a 4-prong remover. New Winner accepts only the two
prongs, and has a black face w/bearing adjustment capability.

Note: In an impressive display of backward compatibility, Winner Pros
accepted threaded cogs OR splined cogs for middle positions. If this
was a home job by the "previous owner", threaded midlevel cogs are
possible (I have several Pros set up like this myself - whatever cog works!)

[*: with an ultra-seven or regular-spaced 6, the two smallest cogs
thread the gether, the inner of the two threads to the freewheel body]

Mark

Freewheels can be hell to remove. And then sometimes
their for there for life.

Quoted message said:

Freewheels can be hell to remove. And then sometimes
their for there for life.

Daunting to a consumer , yes.
A simple non-event to the professional, with a large vise
and the proper tools/techniques.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971