Kevlar tires

Trying said:

I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of
it! I know becasue the galss was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar
tires than others? If so which ones? I ride 40 to 100 a week, no racing, but I want to ride as
fast as possible.

I've had pretty good luck with the Performance kevlars. The belt is fairly thick though so it's a
little heavier and has more rolling resistance than most racing tires. I tried a Vittoria racing
tire with the high tpi kevlar casing but only because I got it for $14 in a closeout bin. I had a
few flats right through that thin belt in short order. It didn't help at all. It's currently my
front tire since I rarely flat the front regardless of what tire I use.

Even with the Performance kevlars I would get some flats but most of them were sidewall cuts
(unprotected by the belt) or the occasional pothole induced snake bite. I never had glass or a
significant sized piece of metal go through the belt. I did have one almost microscopic metal
splinter work its way through the weave in the belt once but it was only big enough to cause a slow
leak. It probably wouldn't have even done that if I'd had a slime tube then (as I do now).

--Bill Davidson

"Trying" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i6bLa.38913$R73.6009@sccrnsc04...
| I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
| Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of
| it! I know becasue the
galss
| was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar
tires
| than others? If so which ones? I ride 40 to 100 a week, no racing, but I want to ride as fast as
| possible.
|
| Tom
|
|

The Ricorso tires do not have a kevlar belt. Vredestein tires with the "puncture resistance system"
have a layer of hard rubber vulcanized between the tread and the casing.

Jean

Hi Tom,

They haven't completely eliminated flats, damn close though, but I switched to and swear by
Contentials...Since I spent the money for them I've had maybe two flats in the past year...I ride
about 150 (245km) to 200 (325km) miles a week and I too got fed up with flats...I hated spending the
money at first but now I'm glad I did!

I'm not a racer but I like to get where I'm going at a 'brisk' pace...and not wasting time on the
side of the road fixing flats!

Cordially, Arous

"Trying" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i6bLa.38913$R73.6009@sccrnsc04...

Quoted message said:

I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of
it! I know becasue the

galss

Quoted message said:

was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar

tires

Quoted message said:

than others? If so which ones? I ride 40 to 100 a week, no racing, but I want to ride as fast as
possible.

Tom

Trying said:

Are there BETTER Kevlar tires than others? If so which ones? I ride 40 to 100 a week, no racing,
but I want to ride as fast as possible.

Tires with Kevlar belts do not roll as well as those w/o. The best solution for your dilema is
to learn how to change out a flat w/o hassle. It takes practice. With time you can get the tire
off and on
w/o tools. A spare tube and a CO2 cartridge and you are on your way in about 5 min. Why suffer with
heavy tires that don't roll well all the time when you only need to changeout a puncture rarely.

Paul Kopit said:

Tires with Kevlar belts do not roll as well as those w/o. The best solution for your dilema is
to learn how to change out a flat w/o hassle. It takes practice. With time you can get the tire
off and on
w/o tools.

The differences in rolling resistance are likely to marginal, if the tyres are otherwise
equivalent. If the extra puncture resistance really means that you flat less often, and thus spend
less time stanionary changing or patching a tube, your average speed is likely to be higher with
the "slower" tyre.

-as

Quoted message said:

Tires with Kevlar belts do not roll as well as those w/o. The best solution for your dilema is to
learn how to change out a flat w/o

What's the opinion about those inserts that claim to reduce punctures? They look like plastic,
placed between the tire and tube.

Doug

Trying said:

I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of
it! I know becasue the galss was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar
tires than others? If so which ones?

OK, by what mechanism would a layer of any cloth stop a pointed piece of glass from getting through?
If you manage that , we can design knife-proof shirts with it. Always useful for city riding.

Kevlar in a tread is a cloth. It cannot stop pointy objects, since it simply separates the weave of
the cloth.

Avoid pointy objects.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. _`\(,_ | That is easy. All
you have to do is tell them they are being (_)/ (_) | attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for
lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any <country. --
Hermann Goering

Antti Salonen said:

The differences in rolling resistance are likely to marginal, if the tyres are otherwise
equivalent.

That is not so clear. The kevlar will add to the energy expended in flexing the casing. I don't have
numbers available -- but it would be interesting to have them (anyone? Same basic tire in a
kevlar/non kevlar model, like the Avocets.

If the extra puncture resistance really

Quoted message said:

means that you flat less often, and thus spend less time stanionary changing or patching a tube,
your average speed is likely to be higher with the "slower" tyre.

But this presumes that the kevlar belt has more than adverstising effectiveness, something that is
not evident. I have used both types, and have not noticed a difference in the frequency of flats.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember _`\(,_ | that your initial
objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ (_)/ (_) |

While kevlar belts are designed to prevent penetration of most objects, David has pointed out their
Achilles Tendon, which is that very slender objects can penetrate the belt's weave.

Strips such as Mr. Tuffy have complementary characteristics, though.

In over 10 years, I have only ever gotten one flat when combining kevlar-belted tires with Mr.
Tuffy, and that was on the sidewall.

It's perfectly reasonable to ride without belts or flat-prevention strips and benefit from the
lesser rolling resistance (is any quantative data on the amount of the handicap due to kevlar belts,
by the way?). It's also perfectly reasonable for those of us who don't want to deal with flat to
take on a bit greater rolling resistance. Neither group is mentally deficient or uneducated.

Viva la difference!

Ride on.

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

< snip > Kevlar in a tread is a cloth. It cannot stop pointy objects,

since it

Quoted message said:

simply separates the weave of the cloth.

Quoted message said:

Trying said:

I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso
tires. Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of

glass

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of it! I know becasue the

galss

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar

tires

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than others? If so which ones?

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OK, by what mechanism would a layer of any cloth stop a pointed piece of glass from getting
through? If you manage that , we can design knife-proof shirts with it. Always useful for
city riding.

Kevlar in a tread is a cloth. It cannot stop pointy objects, since it simply separates the weave
of the cloth. Avoid pointy objects.

In my bicycle service class, I ask students to puncture a section of kelvar(aramid) lined tire. When
a section of tire is laid flat on wood, a very aggressive stab with a #1 Phillips screwdriver won't
penetrate the liner even with extreme effort. An ordinary sewing needle passes right through as
easily as an unlined casing. If you have such a tire, try that some time ( a needle, not a
screwdriver. A sewing needle won't harm your casing at all but a screwdriver may rend the fabric)

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Trying said:

I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I

bought

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Vredestein Ricorso tires. Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of

glass

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of it! I know becasue the

galss

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar

tires

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than others? If so which ones?

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OK, by what mechanism would a layer of any cloth stop a pointed piece of glass from getting
through? If you manage that , we can design knife-proof shirts with it. Always useful for city
riding.

Kevlar in a tread is a cloth. It cannot stop pointy objects, since it simply separates the weave
of the cloth. Avoid pointy objects.

In my bicycle service class, I ask students to puncture a section of kelvar(aramid) lined tire.
When a section of tire is laid flat on wood, a very aggressive stab with a #1 Phillips screwdriver
won't penetrate the liner even with extreme effort. An ordinary sewing needle passes right through
as easily as an unlined casing. If you have such a tire, try that some time ( a needle, not a
screwdriver. A sewing needle won't harm your casing at all but a screwdriver may rend the fabric)

The problem is that the usual puncture-causing object is more like a needle (or glass shard) than a
screw driver. In fact (and here is some more lore), I think I get more flats on kevlar belted tires
because it is harder to find and remove glass shards. -- Jay Beattie.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tires with Kevlar belts do not roll as well as those w/o. The best solution for your dilema is to
learn how to change out a flat w/o

What's the opinion about those inserts that claim to reduce punctures? They look like plastic,
placed between the tire and tube.

You mean like the Mr. Tuffy liners? I use them with my commuter bike and IMHO they seem to
substantially reduce flats. Some people have said that the liner itself can cause a leak where the
liner overlaps itself. I haven't had that problem after years of use.

The ride "feel" is definitely poorer with the liners, but (especially for commuting in the dark,
with wet/cold weather) it's well worth it to reduce the number of flats.

You wouldn't want to ride competitively with these, but for training they should be fine. Whatever
minor extra energy they require means you get a bit more training.

-frank
--

Paul Kopit said:

hassle. It takes practice. With time you can get the tire off and on
w/o tools. A spare tube and a CO2 cartridge and you are on your way in about 5 min.

It takes much longer than that to inflate a tube with a CO2 cartridge; you must wait after it fails
for someone with an HPX to stop by and mock you before inflating the tube. :-)
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

Trying said:

I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of it!

Wet glass will cut anything. You're going to get flats now and again; carry a spare inner tube so
you don't have to patch tubes on the road (but carry patches so as not to tempt fate).

I get a flat every 800 miles or so; it takes me 15 minutes to put a spare tube in my rear wheel (all
told - from the moment I decelerate cursing to the moment I mount up again). A tube or tyre that
would prevent _all_ punctures would still lose me time overall unless the slowdown due to increased
rolling resistance was less than half a percentage point - and no "puncture proof" equipment is that
effective.

Therefore, I don't worry about it; I ride plain rubber tyres and just deal with it when it happens.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

I had an old Mr. Tuffy's split longitudinally and cause a flat. Not sure how many it prevented but
I've been running liners and kevlar belted tires and have had far fewer flats than I used to. These
were really old so I can't fault the liners.

Parmer Lane in Austin is just thick with glass esp after Sat nights so it's hard to avoid all of it.
Always more broken taillights and headlights where cars have pulled out in to traffic after a
weekend too. I've also picked up the tiny wires from tire belts-they're fun when your finger finds
them still in the tire when you're checking after a flat. Lots of heavy trucks blowing up tires
around here too.

I've liked a pair of conti gatorskins, and have tried specialized armadillos too. I've got vittoria
courier tires on spare rims (came on a set of wheels), and had the first crash in 20+ years this
morning. Strange-I've got <100 mi on them. Can't say I like them. I sure hate roadrash!

I think kevlar and liners have helped me-would be hard to prove why the number of flats went down
though. I'm willing to give up a little weight and ride quality for fewer flats.

Quoted message said:

You mean like the Mr. Tuffy liners? I use them with my commuter bike and IMHO they seem to
substantially reduce flats. Some people have said that the liner itself can cause a leak where the
liner overlaps itself. I haven't had that problem after years of use.

David Damerell said:

It takes much longer than that to inflate a tube with a CO2 cartridge; you must wait after it fails
for someone with an HPX to stop by and mock you before inflating the tube. :-)
--

Well, I admit, I have a #2 HPX on the seat stay too. I use it for the 2nd flat. The new CO2
inflators work much better than the older ones.

Ah, but a flat always happens on hot sunny days when there is no shade and you are all sweaty. They
also happen when you're in a hurry to get somewhere or when it's raining.

I use kevlar-belted tires. I may go slower but I'm out there for the exercise. And it's just not fun
having to stop and fix a flat. I still carry a tube and pump just in case.

When I have to use non-kevlar belted tires the tire liners help.

Jim

David L. Johnson said:

Antti Salonen said:

The differences in rolling resistance are likely to marginal, if the tyres are otherwise
equivalent.

That is not so clear. The kevlar will add to the energy expended in flexing the casing. I don't
have numbers available -- but it would be interesting to have them (anyone? Same basic tire in a
kevlar/non kevlar model, like the Avocets.

If the extra puncture resistance really

Quoted message said:

means that you flat less often, and thus spend less time stanionary changing or patching a tube,
your average speed is likely to be higher with the "slower" tyre.

But this presumes that the kevlar belt has more than adverstising effectiveness, something that is
not evident. I have used both types, and have not noticed a difference in the frequency of flats.

David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Therefore, I don't worry about it; I ride plain rubber tyres and just deal with it when it
happens.

I was riding plain rubber, and got tired of the flats on virtually every ride. Switched to Vittoria
Rubino Pro's on both road bikes; do not notice any difference in speed or rolling resistance (e.g.,
any effect is below the perceivable threshhold). Been 19 months and around 10K miles since the last
flat. Same roads, same riding style (avoid glass and objects when I can see it in advance and steer
around it, same as before). Sure is nice to go out and NOT have to stop for a repair :-)

- rick warner