Wheel building Question

dorn said:

Is it neccessary to use a tandem specific hub When building a new tandem wheel? (Front
Specifically) Or can I use a standard road hub. I am using v-brakes on the wheel in case you are
wondering and the team weighs in at 350+#'s (my wife wont give me the exact weight). Thanks Chris

You can use a standard road hub but there are problems. Std road hubs will be hard to find in
drillings of more than 36 spokes. A 36 hole MTB hub can work fine but the hub spacing is usually 135
mm. That can be adjusted with 10 mm of spacers on the left side. If the spacing on your tandem frame
is 160 mm, forget it.

If you have the hole for a caliper rim brake and don't use fenders, get a long reach, dual pivot
rear brake.

dorn said:

Is it neccessary to use a tandem specific hub When building a new tandem wheel? (Front
Specifically) Or can I use a standard road hub. I am using v-brakes on the wheel in case you are
wondering and the team weighs in at 350+#'s (my wife wont give me the exact weight).

Does your current wheel use regular 36 spokes now or the fairly tandem specific 40 or 48? If you've
bought a tandem without a front wheel[1], count the spokes in the rear wheel. That should give you
an idea. Tandem front spacing is still 100 mm, I think, though in the rear they often use wheels
that are wider than normal spacing, so the only difference between a tandem front and a regular
front is extra strength -- possibly stronger/thicker flanges, and more spokes.

Jasper

[1] If you've bought a bike without a front wheel, are you sure the deal's legit? Bikes that
are only locked on their front sometimes get stolen wholesale leaving the front wheel
locked to the rack.

I have not bought a bike without a front wheel, it just happens that the 40 hole front wheel came
with a really cheap hub which even after adjustment and regreasing will not spin smoothly. I want to
build a wheel which is more aero and also with 36 spokes. the spacing is 100mm so any standard road
hub should work, I am however concerned with the strength of road hubs in comparison to tandem
specific hubs. I know that racing tandem wheels come with as few as 32 spokes and I figure that if I
use 14/15 ga. double butted spokes the strength should be adequate, but will the hub last? The
reason I am not building a rear wheel is that I may in the future want to install disc brakes on the
bike and if I do then I will build a wheel with a disc specific hub, but that decision is down the
road some. Chris "Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

dorn said:

Is it neccessary to use a tandem specific hub When building a new tandem wheel? (Front
Specifically) Or can I use a standard road hub. I am using v-brakes on the wheel in case you are
wondering and the team weighs in at 350+#'s (my wife wont give me the exact weight).

Does your current wheel use regular 36 spokes now or the fairly tandem specific 40 or 48? If
you've bought a tandem without a front wheel[1], count the spokes in the rear wheel. That should
give you an idea. Tandem front spacing is still 100 mm, I think, though in the rear they often use
wheels that are wider than normal spacing, so the only difference between a tandem front and a
regular front is extra strength -- possibly stronger/thicker flanges, and more spokes.

Jasper

[1] If you've bought a bike without a front wheel, are you sure the deal's legit? Bikes that are
only locked on their front sometimes get stolen wholesale leaving the front wheel locked to
the rack.

"dorn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have not bought a bike without a front wheel, it just happens that the

40

Quoted message said:

hole front wheel came with a really cheap hub which even after adjustment and regreasing will not
spin smoothly. I want to build a wheel which is

more

Quoted message said:

aero and also with 36 spokes. the spacing is 100mm so any standard road

hub

Quoted message said:

should work, I am however concerned with the strength of road hubs in comparison to tandem
specific hubs. I know that racing tandem wheels come with as few as 32 spokes and I figure that if
I use 14/15 ga. double

butted

Quoted message said:

spokes the strength should be adequate, but will the hub last? The reason

I

Quoted message said:

am not building a rear wheel is that I may in the future want to install disc brakes on the bike
and if I do then I will build a wheel with a disc specific hub, but that decision is down the road
some. Chris "> >

IMO, with your team weight, a tandem hub is quite necessary. A tandem is so much more "aero" than a
single, four less spokes in the front wheel are not going to make one whit's worth of a difference.
What you will gain is a sacrifice in absolute strength and reliability. Having a front wheel fail on
a tandem is one of the worst scenarios a bicyclist can imagine. Don't skimp or cheap-out on matters
like this.

Paul Kopit said:

You can use a standard road hub but there are problems. Std road hubs will be hard to find in
drillings of more than 36 spokes. A 36 hole MTB hub can work fine but the hub spacing is usually
135 mm. That can be adjusted with 10 mm of spacers on the left side. If the spacing on your tandem
frame is 160 mm, forget it.

Both MTBs and tandems have 100 mm (front) hub spacing, typically, not 135, 145, or 160.

Jasper

OK, then I have to ask a few further questions. First a clarification, by "aero" I simply mean a rim
with a deep profile ie. Mavic cxp33 or Velocity Deep V. Not aerodynamic. I realize the aerodynamic
advantage of a tandem versus two independant bikes drafting. What if I use a 36 hole tandem specific
hub? I have always read that double butted spokes are stronger than straight ga. spokes due to the
fact that they can give somewhat. Further I have also been under the impression that a rim with a
deeper profile will build into a stronger wheel. So, by the nature of the wheel I am proposing to
build, wouldn't a 36 hole tandem specific hub, with 14/15 gauge double butted spokes, with a deep
section rim be stronger than a 40 spoke 14 ga. box section wheel with a crappy tandem specific hub?
Do 4 spokes make that significant of a difference with respect to wheel strength? Am I really
sacrificing "absolute strength and reliability"? I realize that wheels are not a place to skimp on a
tandem, which is precisely why I want to build a new front wheel. I am just trying to get peoples
opinion about the validity of strength claims with respect tandem specific hubs. I have noticed that
a lot of tandems wheels are built with Shimano XT hubs, which I dont believe are tandem specific.
They are also signifigantly cheaper than a tandem specific hub. If the strength of hubs don't vary
greatly then why spend $100.00 dollars for a Hugi or King or Phil Wood hub? Not trying to beat a
dead horse. Chris "Dave Thompson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"dorn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have not bought a bike without a front wheel, it just happens that the

40

Quoted message said:

hole front wheel came with a really cheap hub which even after

adjustment

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and regreasing will not spin smoothly. I want to build a wheel which is

more

Quoted message said:

aero and also with 36 spokes. the spacing is 100mm so any standard road

hub

Quoted message said:

should work, I am however concerned with the strength of road hubs in comparison to tandem
specific hubs. I know that racing tandem wheels

come

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with as few as 32 spokes and I figure that if I use 14/15 ga. double

butted

Quoted message said:

spokes the strength should be adequate, but will the hub last? The

reason

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

am not building a rear wheel is that I may in the future want to install disc brakes on the bike
and if I do then I will build a wheel with a

disc

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

specific hub, but that decision is down the road some. Chris "> >

IMO, with your team weight, a tandem hub is quite necessary. A tandem is

so

Quoted message said:

much more "aero" than a single, four less spokes in the front wheel are not

going

Quoted message said:

to make one whit's worth of a difference. What you will gain is a sacrifice in

absolute

Quoted message said:

strength and reliability. Having a front wheel fail on a tandem is one of the worst scenarios a
bicyclist can imagine. Don't skimp or cheap-out on matters like this.

"dorn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OK, then I have to ask a few further questions. First a clarification, by "aero" I simply mean a
rim with a deep profile

ie.

Quoted message said:

Mavic cxp33 or Velocity Deep V. Not aerodynamic. I realize the aerodynamic advantage of a tandem
versus two independant bikes drafting. What if I use a 36 hole tandem specific hub? I have always
read that double butted spokes are stronger than straight

ga.

Quoted message said:

spokes due to the fact that they can give somewhat. Further I have also been under the impression
that a rim with a deeper profile will build into a stronger wheel. So, by the nature of the wheel
I am proposing to build, wouldn't a 36 hole tandem specific hub, with 14/15 gauge double butted
spokes, with a deep section rim be stronger than a 40 spoke 14 ga. box section wheel with a crappy
tandem specific hub? Do 4 spokes make that significant of a difference with respect to wheel
strength? Am I really sacrificing

"absolute

Quoted message said:

strength and reliability"? I realize that wheels are not a place to skimp on a tandem, which is
precisely why I want to build a new front wheel. I am just trying to get peoples opinion about the
validity of strength claims with respect tandem specific hubs. I have noticed that a lot of
tandems wheels are built with Shimano XT hubs, which I dont believe are tandem specific. They are
also signifigantly cheaper than a tandem specific hub. If the strength of hubs don't vary greatly
then why spend $100.00 dollars for a Hugi or King or

Phil

Quoted message said:

Wood hub? Not trying to beat a dead horse.

Chris: Respectfully, I would say that with your team weight (with bike) approaching 400# that your
wheels should be the strongest build possible. Not only are they carrying the weight of the team,
but must resist road "irregularities" (read potholes etc.) and other such loads.

Why don't you contact the maker of your tandem to get their recommendations? It would seem to me to
be more valid than most of ours. A better site to ask your question is on the tandem newsgroup
Tandem@Hobbes home.att.nethobbes.htmlOpen ↗ You should subscribe to it (free) there
is valuable info provided every day. Another good tandem site is:
home.att.net~thetandemlinkOpen ↗

"Dave Thompson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"dorn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OK, then I have to ask a few further questions. First a clarification, by "aero" I simply mean a
rim with a deep profile

ie.

Quoted message said:

Mavic cxp33 or Velocity Deep V. Not aerodynamic. I realize the aerodynamic advantage of a tandem
versus two independant bikes drafting. What if I use a 36 hole tandem specific hub? I have
always read that double butted spokes are stronger than straight

ga.

Quoted message said:

spokes due to the fact that they can give somewhat. Further I have also been under the
impression that a rim with a deeper profile will build into a stronger wheel. So, by the nature
of the wheel I am proposing to build, wouldn't a 36 hole tandem specific hub, with 14/15 gauge
double butted spokes, with a deep section rim be stronger than a 40 spoke 14 ga. box section
wheel with a crappy tandem specific hub? Do 4 spokes make that significant of a difference with
respect to wheel strength? Am I really sacrificing

"absolute

Quoted message said:

strength and reliability"? I realize that wheels are not a place to skimp on a tandem, which is
precisely why I want to build a new front wheel. I am just trying to get peoples opinion about
the validity of strength claims with respect tandem specific hubs. I have noticed that a lot of
tandems wheels are built with Shimano XT hubs, which I dont believe are tandem specific. They
are also signifigantly cheaper than a tandem specific hub. If the strength of hubs don't vary
greatly then why spend $100.00 dollars for a Hugi or King or

Phil

Quoted message said:

Wood hub? Not trying to beat a dead horse.

Chris: Respectfully, I would say that with your team weight (with bike) approaching 400# that your
wheels should be the strongest build possible. Not only are they carrying the weight of the team,
but must resist road "irregularities" (read potholes etc.) and other such loads.

Why don't you contact the maker of your tandem to get their recommendations? It would seem to me
to be more valid than most of ours. A better site to ask your question is on the tandem newsgroup
Tandem@Hobbes home.att.nethobbes.htmlOpen ↗ You should subscribe to it (free)
there is valuable info provided every day. Another good tandem site is:
home.att.net~thetandemlinkOpen ↗

I'm baffeled by something. This thread started w/ a date sometime back in the mid '90s. I see this
happen regularly here. Can someone explain how or why this happens? How is it that really old
posts get connected to current posts? Would it make more sense to have these under the original
post as answers or partial answers? I really don't know. I'm truly confussed by this. Thanks for
any info. John

(John McGraw) said:

I'm baffeled by something. This thread started w/ a date sometime back in the mid '90s. I see this
happen regularly here. Can someone explain how or why this happens? How is it that really old
posts get connected to current posts? Would it make more sense to have these under the original
post as answers or partial answers? I really don't know. I'm truly confussed by this. Thanks for
any info. John

You read from google, and google, besides having a massive database of posts stretching into the dim
and hallowed pasts, threads by subject as well as by References: header. A subject like "Wheel
building Question" is likely to have occurred before, and because the subject's the same Google
mistakenly assumes the threads go together. Most newsreaders do the same, actually (on mine, I can
choose), because References: headers sometimes fail to provide proper threading, but most
newsreaders have at most a month or two worth of posts in their database. On a few groups I
frequent, mine goes up to a year or two, but that's it.

Jasper

dorn said:

So, by the nature of the wheel I am proposing to build, wouldn't a 36 hole tandem specific hub,
with 14/15 gauge double butted spokes, with a deep section rim be stronger than a 40 spoke 14 ga.
box section wheel with a crappy tandem specific hub?

This is not a meaningful basis for decisions about the number of spokes; 36 or 40 spokes, you can
use the same equipment (frex, quality of spokes) either way. I'd build it with 48 and not fret about
the weight - after all, each rider's only pushing 24 up the hills. :-)
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

John McGraw said:

I'm baffeled by something. This thread started w/ a date sometime back in the mid '90s. I see this
happen regularly here. Can someone explain how or why this happens? How is it that really old
posts get connected to current posts? Would it make more sense to have these under the original
post as answers or partial answers? I really don't know. I'm truly confussed by this. Thanks for
any info. John

I suspect you're using Google groups. Threads with common subject lines (like "Wheel Building
Question"😉 get threaded together with threads on the same subject from long ago.

Art Harris

Check with David Nayer at Nimble nimble.netnimble.netOpen ↗. They are in final design of a tandem version
of their Crosswind wheel. Their Clydesdale Crosswind has a 280 lb weight limit, and the tandem
version will support more than 400 lbs. They are extremely well made, and will be available in
tubular and clincher versions.

It should be extremely aero, and bulletproof as well. The front hubs are available now, and rear
hubs are in production for 140, 145, and 160 spacing. The hubs will also accept a drag brake for
those who want a maintenance free wheel on their touring tandem.

This looks like a major improvement over 40-48 spoke tandem wheels.

Kevin Saunders

"dorn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have not bought a bike without a front wheel, it just happens that the

40

Quoted message said:

hole front wheel came with a really cheap hub which even after adjustment and regreasing will not
spin smoothly. I want to build a wheel which is

more

Quoted message said:

aero and also with 36 spokes. the spacing is 100mm so any standard road

hub

Quoted message said:

should work, I am however concerned with the strength of road hubs in comparison to tandem
specific hubs. I know that racing tandem wheels come with as few as 32 spokes and I figure that if
I use 14/15 ga. double

butted

Quoted message said:

spokes the strength should be adequate, but will the hub last? The reason

I

Quoted message said:

am not building a rear wheel is that I may in the future want to install disc brakes on the bike
and if I do then I will build a wheel with a disc specific hub, but that decision is down the road
some. Chris "Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

dorn said:

Is it neccessary to use a tandem specific hub When building a new

tandem

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wheel? (Front Specifically) Or can I use a standard road hub. I am

using

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

v-brakes on the wheel in case you are wondering and the team weighs in

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

350+#'s (my wife wont give me the exact weight).

Does your current wheel use regular 36 spokes now or the fairly tandem specific 40 or 48? If
you've bought a tandem without a front wheel[1], count the spokes in the rear wheel. That should
give you an idea. Tandem front spacing is still 100 mm, I think, though in the rear they often

use

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wheels that are wider than normal spacing, so the only difference

between

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a tandem front and a regular front is extra strength -- possibly stronger/thicker flanges, and
more spokes.

Jasper

[1] If you've bought a bike without a front wheel, are you sure the

deal's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

legit? Bikes that are only locked on their front sometimes get stolen wholesale leaving the
front wheel locked to the rack.