Blue Mountains

"Gerd" wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On my cycling-tour through Australia I have to cycle from Lithgow to
Sydney. From my map I can choose between:
- via Bell, Berambing, Bilpin, Richmond, Windsor.
- the Great Western Hwy
On my map the first option looks the most atractive. Is it really?

Gerd

Bell through to Richmond definitely has the best views from the road, with spectacular views of the Grose Valley, and some nice
little road side fruit stalls (direct from the farm). I've never ridden it doesn't seem to cycle friendly. There is less traffic
than the Great Western Highway but it will be hurtling past often at over 100km/hr on narrow twisting roads.

The Great Western highway goes through the main populated area of the Blue Mountains it will have a lot more traffic but does have
mostly wide shoulders and smoother surface. You can also get off the highway and ride the back streets. You'll have more options
if you're looking to stay somewhere, be able to get a decent cup of coffee and be able to get to the tradition tourist scenic spots
(Govett's Leap, The Three Sisters, Wentworth Falls)

Parbs

Parbs said:

"Gerd" wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On my cycling-tour through Australia I have to cycle from Lithgow to
Sydney. From my map I can choose between:
- via Bell, Berambing, Bilpin, Richmond, Windsor.
- the Great Western Hwy
On my map the first option looks the most atractive. Is it really?

Gerd

Bell through to Richmond definitely has the best views from the road, with spectacular views of the Grose Valley, and some nice
little road side fruit stalls (direct from the farm). I've never ridden it doesn't seem to cycle friendly. There is less traffic
than the Great Western Highway but it will be hurtling past often at over 100km/hr on narrow twisting roads.

The Great Western highway goes through the main populated area of the Blue Mountains it will have a lot more traffic but does have
mostly wide shoulders and smoother surface. You can also get off the highway and ride the back streets. You'll have more options
if you're looking to stay somewhere, be able to get a decent cup of coffee and be able to get to the tradition tourist scenic spots
(Govett's Leap, The Three Sisters, Wentworth Falls)

Parbs

Parbs is right - Bells Line of Rd through Bilpin, Richmond, Windsor is
far and away the most scenic route over the Blue Mtns, but also favoured
by large fast moving trucks. Traffic slows from Mt Tomah/Berambing
eastwards as a variety of lower speed zones come into effect.
Accommodation is available Berambing-Kurrajong at bed and breakfast
establishments, and there are motels in Richmond and Windsor. The road
from Kurrajong Heights to Kurrajong offers a spectacularly fast descent
down the eastern escarpment of the Blue Mtns so make sure your brakes
are in top order. Avoid the heavy traffic by leaving Bells Line of Rd at
Kurrajong and travelling to Nth Richmond via Grose Vale - very
attractive, but still a narrow rd with little shoulder, but generally
quieter at off-peak times. Alternatively, there is now a completed
cycleway from Kurrajong through to North Richmond. From immediately east
of the Hawkesbury River turn left (north) and travel through the
lowlands to Windsor - a very popular bike riding route - narrow lanes
through turf farms and dairy pasture with very little traffic and sweet
country smells of manure. You could risk your life attempting to cycle
from Windsor to Sydney, or alternatively catch the train at either
Richmond or Windsor. A bike track is under construction from Windsor to
Parramatta but doesn't yet go the full distance. My preference would be
the train to Sydney from Windsor.

Mike

MikeS <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Parbs said:

"Gerd" wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On my cycling-tour through Australia I have to cycle from Lithgow to
Sydney. From my map I can choose between:
- via Bell, Berambing, Bilpin, Richmond, Windsor.
- the Great Western Hwy
On my map the first option looks the most atractive. Is it really?

Gerd

Bell through to Richmond definitely has the best views from the road, with spectacular views of the Grose Valley, and some nice
little road side fruit stalls (direct from the farm). I've never ridden it doesn't seem to cycle friendly. There is less traffic
than the Great Western Highway but it will be hurtling past often at over 100km/hr on narrow twisting roads.

The Great Western highway goes through the main populated area of the Blue Mountains it will have a lot more traffic but does have
mostly wide shoulders and smoother surface. You can also get off the highway and ride the back streets. You'll have more options
if you're looking to stay somewhere, be able to get a decent cup of coffee and be able to get to the tradition tourist scenic spots
(Govett's Leap, The Three Sisters, Wentworth Falls)

Parbs

Parbs is right - Bells Line of Rd through Bilpin, Richmond, Windsor is
far and away the most scenic route over the Blue Mtns, but also favoured
by large fast moving trucks. Traffic slows from Mt Tomah/Berambing
eastwards as a variety of lower speed zones come into effect.
Accommodation is available Berambing-Kurrajong at bed and breakfast
establishments, and there are motels in Richmond and Windsor. The road
from Kurrajong Heights to Kurrajong offers a spectacularly fast descent
down the eastern escarpment of the Blue Mtns so make sure your brakes
are in top order. Avoid the heavy traffic by leaving Bells Line of Rd at
Kurrajong and travelling to Nth Richmond via Grose Vale - very
attractive, but still a narrow rd with little shoulder, but generally
quieter at off-peak times. Alternatively, there is now a completed
cycleway from Kurrajong through to North Richmond. From immediately east
of the Hawkesbury River turn left (north) and travel through the
lowlands to Windsor - a very popular bike riding route - narrow lanes
through turf farms and dairy pasture with very little traffic and sweet
country smells of manure. You could risk your life attempting to cycle
from Windsor to Sydney, or alternatively catch the train at either
Richmond or Windsor. A bike track is under construction from Windsor to
Parramatta but doesn't yet go the full distance. My preference would be
the train to Sydney from Windsor.

Mike

Thanks for all the information. I have still one question. According
to LP's "Cycling Australia" in NSW my bicyle has to be boxed in the
train. I think that is a lot of bother for such a short distance.
Would it be an option to stay North of Sydney, takebackroads to Manly
and the ferry to

Gerd wrote:

....snippies are good.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all the information. I have still one question. According
to LP's "Cycling Australia" in NSW my bicyle has to be boxed in the
train.

Nope, not the train inside Lithgow, Windsor, Maitland and Campbelltown.
You just RORO (if you can find space - big problem). Just stay away from
peak hours.

The train from Windsor will be a metro train with big lobbies at either
end. The train from Lithgow is an inter-urban and you might have some
bother moving it from one side to the other.

[email hidden] (Gerd) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

MikeS <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Parbs said:

"Gerd" wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

>On my cycling-tour through Australia I have to cycle from Lithgow to
>Sydney. From my map I can choose between:
>- via Bell, Berambing, Bilpin, Richmond, Windsor.
>- the Great Western Hwy
>On my map the first option looks the most atractive. Is it really?
>
>Gerd

Bell through to Richmond definitely has the best views from the road, with spectacular views of the Grose Valley, and some nice
little road side fruit stalls (direct from the farm). I've never ridden it doesn't seem to cycle friendly. There is less traffic
than the Great Western Highway but it will be hurtling past often at over 100km/hr on narrow twisting roads.

The Great Western highway goes through the main populated area of the Blue Mountains it will have a lot more traffic but does have
mostly wide shoulders and smoother surface. You can also get off the highway and ride the back streets. You'll have more options
if you're looking to stay somewhere, be able to get a decent cup of coffee and be able to get to the tradition tourist scenic spots
(Govett's Leap, The Three Sisters, Wentworth Falls)

Parbs

Parbs is right - Bells Line of Rd through Bilpin, Richmond, Windsor is
far and away the most scenic route over the Blue Mtns, but also favoured
by large fast moving trucks. Traffic slows from Mt Tomah/Berambing
eastwards as a variety of lower speed zones come into effect.
Accommodation is available Berambing-Kurrajong at bed and breakfast
establishments, and there are motels in Richmond and Windsor. The road
from Kurrajong Heights to Kurrajong offers a spectacularly fast descent
down the eastern escarpment of the Blue Mtns so make sure your brakes
are in top order. Avoid the heavy traffic by leaving Bells Line of Rd at
Kurrajong and travelling to Nth Richmond via Grose Vale - very
attractive, but still a narrow rd with little shoulder, but generally
quieter at off-peak times. Alternatively, there is now a completed
cycleway from Kurrajong through to North Richmond. From immediately east
of the Hawkesbury River turn left (north) and travel through the
lowlands to Windsor - a very popular bike riding route - narrow lanes
through turf farms and dairy pasture with very little traffic and sweet
country smells of manure. You could risk your life attempting to cycle
from Windsor to Sydney, or alternatively catch the train at either
Richmond or Windsor. A bike track is under construction from Windsor to
Parramatta but doesn't yet go the full distance. My preference would be
the train to Sydney from Windsor.

Mike

Thanks for all the information. I have still one question. According
to LP's "Cycling Australia" in NSW my bicyle has to be boxed in the
train. I think that is a lot of bother for such a short distance.
Would it be an option to stay North of Sydney, takebackroads to Manly
and the ferry to Sydney.

Gerd

"Gerd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all the information. I have still one question. According
to LP's "Cycling Australia" in NSW my bicyle has to be boxed in the
train. I think that is a lot of bother for such a short distance.
Would it be an option to stay North of Sydney, takebackroads to Manly
and the ferry to Sydney.

You could do this, and the Hawkesbury River route is very scenic. I took the
ferry and a route north from Manly to Palm Beach, then another ferry to
Patonga when traveling up the coast. However this info about boxing is in
reference to NSW country trains(the XPT), not a concern for you if coming
from Windsor.

Country travel is a pain, you will have to box the bike (front wheel
removed), and book it in advance. Allegedly each train can only carry two
bikes. However when I last took a train into NSW from Melbourne, and back
from Murwillumbah, my bike had full touring racks and mudguards. It would
not fit into the box, even if I dropped the front wheel out. I kicked the
end of the box and it travelled with the front wheel sticking 10 cm out of
the box. Despite NSW rail staff's claims "it won't fit in the racks" and
"you won't have any insurance cover", it was carried quite happily with no
damage.

Using country trains to extend your cycling is much easier in Victoria.

Cheers
Peter

"Terry Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gerd wrote:

...snippies are good.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all the information. I have still one question. According
to LP's "Cycling Australia" in NSW my bicyle has to be boxed in the
train.

Nope, not the train inside Lithgow, Windsor, Maitland and Campbelltown.
You just RORO (if you can find space - big problem). Just stay away from
peak hours.

Especially as you then have to buy a "child's ticket" for your bike, as well
as your own ticket. Bikes are free outside of peak hours

Tony F
www.thefathippy.com

Gerd said:

On my cycling-tour through Australia I have to cycle from Lithgow to
Sydney. From my map I can choose between:
- via Bell, Berambing, Bilpin, Richmond, Windsor.
- the Great Western Hwy
On my map the first option looks the most atractive. Is it really?

Bells line of road is narrow and busy. The Great Western Highway is relatively wide, and still busy. One option might be to ride down the Highway to Springwood, then hang a left and come into Richmond the back way. This is nice and quiet, and there's a great descent involved.

Having said that though, there's great descents involved in all three options.

Regards,

Suzy

suzyj said:

Quoted message said:

On my cycling-tour through Australia I have to cycle from Lithgow to
Sydney. From my map I can choose between:
- via Bell, Berambing, Bilpin, Richmond, Windsor.
- the Great Western Hwy
On my map the first option looks the most atractive. Is it really?

Bells line of road is narrow and busy. The Great Western Highway is
relatively wide, and still busy. One option might be to ride down the
Highway to Springwood, then hang a left and come into Richmond the back
way. This is nice and quiet, and there's a great descent involved.

Having said that though, there's great descents involved in all three
options.

Regards,

Suzy

--
suzyj

For really quite, turn right at Wentworth Falls and go down the Anderson, then Oaks fire trails to Glenbrook
(http://members.iinet.net.au/~fathers/anderson.htm). Certainly rideable on a touring bike - although perhaps "interesting" (read
painful) pushing up out of Bedford Creek) if loaded with gear.

A couple of years ago there was a guy pulling a baby trailer (complete with sleeping baby) in the Woodford to Glenbrook Classic.

Parbs (OK maybe this suggestion is just a little silly)

"Parbs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

suzyj said:

Quoted message said:

On my cycling-tour through Australia I have to cycle from Lithgow to
Sydney. From my map I can choose between:
- via Bell, Berambing, Bilpin, Richmond, Windsor.
- the Great Western Hwy
On my map the first option looks the most atractive. Is it really?

Bells line of road is narrow and busy. The Great Western Highway is
relatively wide, and still busy. One option might be to ride down the
Highway to Springwood, then hang a left and come into Richmond the back
way. This is nice and quiet, and there's a great descent involved.

Having said that though, there's great descents involved in all three
options.

Regards,

Suzy

--
suzyj

For really quite, turn right at Wentworth Falls and go down the Anderson, then Oaks fire trails to Glenbrook
(http://members.iinet.net.au/~fathers/anderson.htm). Certainly rideable on a touring bike - although perhaps "interesting" (read
painful) pushing up out of Bedford Creek) if loaded with gear.

A couple of years ago there was a guy pulling a baby trailer (complete with sleeping baby) in the Woodford to Glenbrook Classic.

Parbs (OK maybe this suggestion is just a little silly)

Sorry, Parbs. After seeing the pictures and video I think your
suggestion looks quite thrilling on a mountain-bike, but not on a
fully loaded touring bike without suspension. Especially not if the
person on that bike is afraid of fast descents.
If both Great Western Hwy and Bells line of Road are too busy, is
there an alternative?
Maybe: Coming from Goulburn turn right at Richlands and follow the
roads via Bullio, High Range, Hilltop, Balmoral, Buxton,Thirlmere,
Mowbray Park, The Oaks (maybe a side tour to Burragorong Lookout),
Orangeville, Silverdale, Wallache.
Will I be able to enjoy some of the beauty of the Blue Mountains that
way, or will I miss all the fun?

Gerd

"Gerd" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

If both Great Western Hwy and Bells line of Road are too busy, is
there an alternative?
Maybe: Coming from Goulburn turn right at Richlands and follow the
roads via Bullio, High Range, Hilltop, Balmoral, Buxton,Thirlmere,
Mowbray Park, The Oaks (maybe a side tour to Burragorong Lookout),
Orangeville, Silverdale, Wallache.
Will I be able to enjoy some of the beauty of the Blue Mountains that
way, or will I miss all the fun?

Gerd

I'd say come Great Western Hwy, while there is a fair amount of traffic the speeds are lower and the road is wider. It will take
you through the most famous scenic parts of the Blue Mountains. There are plenty of places to stay or camp.

Parbs

Gerd said:

Sorry, Parbs. After seeing the pictures and video I think your
suggestion looks quite thrilling on a mountain-bike, but not on a
fully loaded touring bike without suspension. Especially not if the
person on that bike is afraid of fast descents.

Err, tourers are "usually" saner and tend to take it easier and that
route is only the last quarter of the trip anyway.

Quoted message said:

If both Great Western Hwy and Bells line of Road are too busy, is
there an alternative?

The Great Western would be the better because it is mostly double laned
with a break down lane. So long as you stay away from weekends and peak
hour, it should be okay.

If you are really worried, then hop the train from 1) Lithgow, 2 Mt
Victoria, or any station further in.

Ride it if you want the brownie points of having done it, or train hop
if you really just want to see the sites.

Quoted message said:

Maybe: Coming from Goulburn turn right at Richlands and follow the
roads via Bullio, High Range, Hilltop, Balmoral, Buxton,Thirlmere,
Mowbray Park, The Oaks (maybe a side tour to Burragorong Lookout),
Orangeville, Silverdale, Wallache.

This isn't really an alternative to the Great Western, because it is a
four day ride to get down there from Lithgow. Nice, but still some ride.
I recommend the route through Porter Retreat to Wombeyan Cave rather
than the one further east as that was rather rocky when I looked at it.
Also avoid weekends and school holidays.

Quoted message said:

Will I be able to enjoy some of the beauty of the Blue Mountains that
way, or will I miss all the fun?

You would totally miss the touristy Blue Mountains.

There is actually another route from the southern approaches that is not
exactly legal (water catchment), but you do end up at Katoomba and it
does involve carrying your bicycle down the side of a mountain ( a few
trips involved) and I understand the climb back up to the main range is
a right [censored] anyway.

Where are you actually coming from?

Terry Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Gerd said:

Sorry, Parbs. After seeing the pictures and video I think your
suggestion looks quite thrilling on a mountain-bike, but not on a
fully loaded touring bike without suspension. Especially not if the
person on that bike is afraid of fast descents.

Err, tourers are "usually" saner and tend to take it easier and that
route is only the last quarter of the trip anyway.

Quoted message said:

If both Great Western Hwy and Bells line of Road are too busy, is
there an alternative?

The Great Western would be the better because it is mostly double laned
with a break down lane. So long as you stay away from weekends and peak
hour, it should be okay.

If you are really worried, then hop the train from 1) Lithgow, 2 Mt
Victoria, or any station further in.

Ride it if you want the brownie points of having done it, or train hop
if you really just want to see the sites.

Quoted message said:

Maybe: Coming from Goulburn turn right at Richlands and follow the
roads via Bullio, High Range, Hilltop, Balmoral, Buxton,Thirlmere,
Mowbray Park, The Oaks (maybe a side tour to Burragorong Lookout),
Orangeville, Silverdale, Wallache.

This isn't really an alternative to the Great Western, because it is a
four day ride to get down there from Lithgow. Nice, but still some ride.
I recommend the route through Porter Retreat to Wombeyan Cave rather
than the one further east as that was rather rocky when I looked at it.
Also avoid weekends and school holidays.

Quoted message said:

Will I be able to enjoy some of the beauty of the Blue Mountains that
way, or will I miss all the fun?

You would totally miss the touristy Blue Mountains.

There is actually another route from the southern approaches that is not
exactly legal (water catchment), but you do end up at Katoomba and it
does involve carrying your bicycle down the side of a mountain ( a few
trips involved) and I understand the climb back up to the main range is
a right [censored] anyway.

Where are you actually coming from?

If you mean which country. I'm from Holland
The tour I'm planning is part of a 3-month bicycle-tour from Adelaide
to Cairns. On my way to Sydney I will be coming from Canberra and ride
via Goulburn. In my idea I wouldn't drive on to Lithgow but turn right
at Richlands. So it wouldn't be a 4 days detour.
I know I would miss some of the touristic highlights, but I could see
others like Wombeyan Caves, Burragorong Lookout and (maybe)
Wirrimbirra Sanctuary at Bargo.

Gerd

Gerd said:

If you mean which country. I'm from Holland
The tour I'm planning is part of a 3-month bicycle-tour from Adelaide
to Cairns. On my way to Sydney I will be coming from Canberra and ride
via Goulburn. In my idea I wouldn't drive on to Lithgow but turn right
at Richlands. So it wouldn't be a 4 days detour.
I know I would miss some of the touristic highlights, but I could see
others like Wombeyan Caves, Burragorong Lookout and (maybe)
Wirrimbirra Sanctuary at Bargo.

Either the Hilltop route or the old highway (some link roads exist)
would suffice.

Wombeyan Caves is one day out from Mittagong and another day back. It is
actually quite nice gradients coming back (I've never ridden to, but
imagine it is the same).

From Goulburn, you could take the Taralga route (gravel road) and enter
Wombeyan Caves from the west and then exit East to Mittagong. Wombeyan
Caves are nice tourist caves. If you don't want tourist caves, but want
to go underground (self explore), from Goulburn you go east to Bungonia
Caves, then join the main highway for a short time at Marulan, then go
via Tallong, Wingello & Bundannon.

You can pick up the train at Campbelltown to go to your inner city stop
(train/ferry combo?).

Perhaps take the train to the Blue Mtns for a day or two.

Quoted message said:

Gerd

--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"

Terry Collins said:

Wombeyan Caves are nice tourist caves. If you don't want tourist
caves, but want to go underground (self explore), from Goulburn
you go east to Bungonia Caves,

There's some legal semi-tourist stuff at Wombeyan as well, for example
the Tinted Cave. True wild caving isn't permitted unless you're with a
group doing scientific research, etc., though etc. covers a lot of
ground :-) I've done the self guided Fig Tree/Victoria Arch well over
25 times, and still enjoy it.

While I imagine most bike tourers would have at least some kind of head
torch, the scope for exploration at Bungonia without a reasonable
amount of additional equipment is limited. I'd also discourage doing
all but the most basic of caves on your own, though AFAIK Bungonia does
have a regularly checked trip planning (sign in/sign out) book. The top
bit of Grill and B4-5 are all that spring to mind, and both have
sections it'd be very easy to come unstuck if you were on your own.

Dave - who used to do a fair bit of caving at Wombeyan and a lesser
amount at Bungonia.