Strength level keeps going down

fj said:

When I stopped HST routine I was able to curl total 85lb for at least 5
reps, both hands.

Now I am on 3-day split routine and work on bicep once a week.
the week before: 40 lb x 2 (dumbbell)
last week: 35 lb x 4, 40 lb becomes negatives 🙁
this week: I cannot curl 35lb dumbbell at all, especially my left hand.

And I got DOMS after each workout. How can I tell if it's because I am
overtraining. Once a week per muscle group. Is it possible?

Think in the other direction. Maybe once a week is undertrainign or
just isn't enough and you're detraining before the next workout. I
never got anywhere with 1x / week training of anything.
But it does depend on what else you do. Do you do back the day before
you do biceps? Where in the routine are curls?

Quoted message said:

If it's not overtraining, I guess I have to switch back to HST routine and
see what's happening.

You don't have to switch back to hst, you could try a different
arrangement. Something that has you repeating a workout more often
than once a week. Try a two day split 2x / week.

Even though it seems irrelevant if you're going backwards, dumbbell
curls don't necessarily transfer 1:1 from barbells, y'know. An
adjustment period is normal when switching to a different exercise.
With a barbell, each arm helps the other / takes over when one arm
gets fatigued & lazy. Unless you're consciously watching for it, you
won't even notice it.
But, if you insist on using a weight that's just too heavy for now,
you'd better get used to it, 'cause you'll be using it for a long
time. Better to back up to something that you can manage & build up.

fj said:

When I stopped HST routine I was able to curl total 85lb for at least 5
reps, both hands.

Now I am on 3-day split routine and work on bicep once a week.
the week before: 40 lb x 2 (dumbbell)
last week: 35 lb x 4, 40 lb becomes negatives 🙁
this week: I cannot curl 35lb dumbbell at all, especially my left hand.

And I got DOMS after each workout. How can I tell if it's because I am
overtraining. Once a week per muscle group. Is it possible?

If it's not overtraining, I guess I have to switch back to HST routine and
see what's happening.

I don't think it's undertraining or overtraining; it sounds more like
it's just your new workout isn't right for you.

-Adam

"Justin Case" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

fj said:

When I stopped HST routine I was able to curl total 85lb for at least 5
reps, both hands.

Now I am on 3-day split routine and work on bicep once a week.
the week before: 40 lb x 2 (dumbbell)
last week: 35 lb x 4, 40 lb becomes negatives 🙁
this week: I cannot curl 35lb dumbbell at all, especially my left hand.

And I got DOMS after each workout. How can I tell if it's because I am
overtraining. Once a week per muscle group. Is it possible?

Think in the other direction. Maybe once a week is undertrainign or
just isn't enough and you're detraining before the next workout. I
never got anywhere with 1x / week training of anything.
But it does depend on what else you do. Do you do back the day before
you do biceps? Where in the routine are curls?

Yes, I do backs before bicep. But I always train bicep the last thing in my
workout even in HST routine.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it's not overtraining, I guess I have to switch back to HST routine

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

see what's happening.

You don't have to switch back to hst, you could try a different
arrangement. Something that has you repeating a workout more often
than once a week. Try a two day split 2x / week.

That's a big commitment. i.e. 4 times a week.

Quoted message said:

Even though it seems irrelevant if you're going backwards, dumbbell
curls don't necessarily transfer 1:1 from barbells, y'know. An
adjustment period is normal when switching to a different exercise.
With a barbell, each arm helps the other / takes over when one arm
gets fatigued & lazy. Unless you're consciously watching for it, you
won't even notice it.
But, if you insist on using a weight that's just too heavy for now,
you'd better get used to it, 'cause you'll be using it for a long
time. Better to back up to something that you can manage & build up.

"fj" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

When I stopped HST routine I was able to curl total 85lb for at least 5
reps, both hands.

Now I am on 3-day split routine and work on bicep once a week.
the week before: 40 lb x 2 (dumbbell)
last week: 35 lb x 4, 40 lb becomes negatives 🙁
this week: I cannot curl 35lb dumbbell at all, especially my left hand.

And I got DOMS after each workout. How can I tell if it's because I am
overtraining. Once a week per muscle group. Is it possible?

If it's not overtraining, I guess I have to switch back to HST routine and
see what's happening.

-fj

FWIW, HIT-style once-a-week routines get trashed a lot in this NG. You may
have found out why.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, HIT-style once-a-week routines get trashed a lot in this NG. You may
have found out why.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

In bodybuilding.com forum, it's more diversified. But I did noticed that
this group favors HST. I don't think it's improper. Just think about the
idea of gaining muscle without paying much effort... and there are researchs
backup the theory.

For me I can say that HST works pretty well in the first 9 months. Well, for
a beginner, almost every routine works.

-fj

Hugh Beyer said:

"fj" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

When I stopped HST routine I was able to curl total 85lb for at least 5
reps, both hands.

Now I am on 3-day split routine and work on bicep once a week.
the week before: 40 lb x 2 (dumbbell)
last week: 35 lb x 4, 40 lb becomes negatives 🙁
this week: I cannot curl 35lb dumbbell at all, especially my left hand.

And I got DOMS after each workout. How can I tell if it's because I am
overtraining. Once a week per muscle group. Is it possible?

If it's not overtraining, I guess I have to switch back to HST routine and
see what's happening.

-fj

FWIW, HIT-style once-a-week routines get trashed a lot in this NG. You may
have found out why.

You mean because they suck?

--
Scott Johnson / [email hidden]

fj said:

Quoted message said:

FWIW, HIT-style once-a-week routines get trashed a lot in this NG. You may
have found out why.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

In bodybuilding.com forum, it's more diversified. But I did noticed that
this group favors HST. I don't think it's improper. Just think about the
idea of gaining muscle without paying much effort...

What are you talking about? Where did you get the idea you're going
to gain muscle without a lot of hard work?

Scott Johnson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Hugh Beyer said:

"fj" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

When I stopped HST routine I was able to curl total 85lb for at least 5
reps, both hands.

Now I am on 3-day split routine and work on bicep once a week.
the week before: 40 lb x 2 (dumbbell)
last week: 35 lb x 4, 40 lb becomes negatives 🙁
this week: I cannot curl 35lb dumbbell at all, especially my left hand.

And I got DOMS after each workout. How can I tell if it's because I am
overtraining. Once a week per muscle group. Is it possible?

If it's not overtraining, I guess I have to switch back to HST routine
and see what's happening.

-fj

FWIW, HIT-style once-a-week routines get trashed a lot in this NG. You
may have found out why.

You mean because they suck?

That would be it, yes.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

In bodybuilding.com forum, it's more diversified. But I did noticed that
this group favors HST. I don't think it's improper. Just think about the
idea of gaining muscle without paying much effort...

What are you talking about? Where did you get the idea you're going
to gain muscle without a lot of hard work?

I am talking about HST. The theory is you don't have to reach failure in
order to gain muscle mass. Once every two weeks you use the max weight.

The routine I am doing now gives me lots of DOMS, for at least 3 days
afterwards. I would like to think the muscle is recovering and grows.
Unfortunately I am not seeing the gain. BTW, I am following Anthony Ellis'
booklet. The only excercise I found helpful is the one for calf.

-fj

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 20:13:26 -0800, "fj" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

In bodybuilding.com forum, it's more diversified. But I did noticed that
this group favors HST. I don't think it's improper. Just think about the
idea of gaining muscle without paying much effort...

What are you talking about? Where did you get the idea you're going
to gain muscle without a lot of hard work?

I am talking about HST. The theory is you don't have to reach failure in
order to gain muscle mass. Once every two weeks you use the max weight.

The routine I am doing now gives me lots of DOMS, for at least 3 days
afterwards. I would like to think the muscle is recovering and grows.

If you repeat a workout more often, you won't get it. You'll probably
grow then too.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately I am not seeing the gain. BTW, I am following Anthony Ellis'
booklet. The only excercise I found helpful is the one for calf.

I hope you didn't pay for it. It can't be any different from the
meathead routines you can find for nothing all over the 'net.
Did you learn anything about why HST works?

Quoted message said:

I hope you didn't pay for it. It can't be any different from the
meathead routines you can find for nothing all over the 'net.
Did you learn anything about why HST works?

No I didn't. 🙂 I found it by eMule.

I first got the idea of HST from this NG. There are quite a few people
highly recommend it. Basically HST keep changing the pattern of the
stimulation so that muscle can keep growing. Even though you don't use heavy
weight muscle still react because the weight is a little heavier than last
time.

"fj" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

When I stopped HST routine I was able to curl total 85lb for at least
5 reps, both hands.

Now I am on 3-day split routine and work on bicep once a week.
the week before: 40 lb x 2 (dumbbell)
last week: 35 lb x 4, 40 lb becomes negatives 🙁
this week: I cannot curl 35lb dumbbell at all, especially my left
hand.

Am I understanding correctly that you're averaging 2 reps per week of
that exercise? Compare that to what you were doing on HST for the same
exercise: an average of about 30 reps per week (assuming you followed the
vanilla program). Sure, most of the HST work was with submax weights,
but it was still way more work than you're doing now!

Quoted message said:

And I got DOMS after each workout. How can I tell if it's because I am
overtraining. Once a week per muscle group. Is it possible?

Generally and vaguely, DOMS in a muscle means it was deconditioned to
work you made it do. In this case, your muscles are deconditioning
faster than you're conditioning them.

Quoted message said:

If it's not overtraining, I guess I have to switch back to HST routine
and see what's happening.

You need to do more work. Lower the weight to something you can do for
8-12 reps, staying a rep or two away from failure. Do that twice a week
for each exercise, and things may take off again. (Don't fret if you
accidentally hit failure occasionally; [censored] happens.) Or, go back to
HST. It's a good program.

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 17:23:56 -0800, "fj" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Justin Case" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:39:41 -0800, "fj" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

> I hope you didn't pay for it. It can't be any different from the
> meathead routines you can find for nothing all over the 'net.
> Did you learn anything about why HST works?
>
>

No I didn't. 🙂 I found it by eMule.

I first got the idea of HST from this NG. There are quite a few people
highly recommend it. Basically HST keep changing the pattern of the
stimulation so that muscle can keep growing. Even though you don't use
heavy
weight muscle still react because the weight is a little heavier than last
time.

If you don't want to do hst, I'll bet you could take some of the
principles that hst is built around and apply them to what ever
routine you DO want to do.
But it seems to me you're not all that motivated. Never mind that you
didn't seem to learn anything about what you were doing.

You are right about one thing. I AM a little lost right now. After passing
the beginner level my pregress is slowing down. I am trying new routine and
things is keep getting worse. I may have unrealistic expectation.

The *routine* isn't as important as you may think. What's important is
that you use progressively heavier weights. You can't just keep piling
more weight on the bar forever so you have to come up with a way to
keep working up to a new weight.
If hst worked for you, go back to it. Or, as I mentioned before, try
doing 2X / week per body part, not to failure, rather than the once
week to failure type bs.
A two day split done 2x / week is only one day more than hst, so I
don't see why you called it 'a big commitment.

There's a sample routine on this page, post# 8
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/forums/showthread.php?t=675

It's meant to focus on two body parts at a time (per workout) while
maintaining the others. After two or three months, you shift the focus
to something else. Instead of M,W, T,F
I lift on S,S, Tue & Thurs. It's easier for me to get in two week days
than 4.

fj said:

When I stopped HST routine I was able to curl total 85lb for at least 5
reps, both hands.

Now I am on 3-day split routine and work on bicep once a week.
the week before: 40 lb x 2 (dumbbell)
last week: 35 lb x 4, 40 lb becomes negatives 🙁
this week: I cannot curl 35lb dumbbell at all, especially my left hand.

And I got DOMS after each workout. How can I tell if it's because I am
overtraining. Once a week per muscle group. Is it possible?

Sounds more like undertraining.

Quoted message said:

I guess I have to switch back to HST routine

Good idea.