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BMA page updated

Started by Just zis Guy, you know? · · Last activity · 7 posts · 649 views

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UK and Europe
Published
1 March 2005
Last activity
4 March 2005
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Just zis Guy, you know?
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7
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  1. The BMA "report" on which the change of policy was founded has been
    amended. http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/Cyclhelmet

    Note that the policy is now on very shaky ground, since it is based on
    a report whose inaccuracy has led to its being, in effect, withdrawn.

    Note, too, that it now repeats Angie's assertion that the drop in
    cycling in Australia was attributable to a change in the age for
    driving. Or rather, as it turns out, a change in the age for
    learner's permits, by one year, in one state.

    It would be good to put pressure on to get the more egregious [censored]
    in the revised version pulled down - if they have to do it enough
    times they may decide to stop letting Nicky Jaysinghe make them look
    like a bunch of arses and get someone to do the job properly...

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

  2. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The BMA "report" on which the change of policy was founded has been
    amended. http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/Cyclhelmet

    Note that the policy is now on very shaky ground, since it is based on
    a report whose inaccuracy has led to its being, in effect, withdrawn.

    Note, too, that it now repeats Angie's assertion that the drop in
    cycling in Australia was attributable to a change in the age for
    driving. Or rather, as it turns out, a change in the age for
    learner's permits, by one year, in one state.

    It would be good to put pressure on to get the more egregious [censored]
    in the revised version pulled down - if they have to do it enough
    times they may decide to stop letting Nicky Jaysinghe make them look
    like a bunch of arses and get someone to do the job properly...

    Thanks Guy, this is the biggest crock of [censored] it has ever been my
    misfortune to read. I copied a few quotes to illustrate:

    "Recent evidence has indicated that the introduction of compulsory
    legislation does not have a significant negative effect on cycling levels.
    Such legislation in the UK should not discourage cyclists and lead to a more
    sedentary lifestyle with consequent health risks.

    It is estimated that 90,000 road-related and 100,000 off-road related
    cycling accidents occur every year in the UK, of which 53% (100,000) involve
    children under sixteen [Go to reference 4].

    [4] Chapman HR, Curran ALM. Bicycle Helmets 1- Does the dental profession
    have a role in promoting their use? British Dental Journal
    2004;196(9):555-560

    In 2002, 594 children and 1,801 adults were killed or seriously injured as a
    result of road-related cycling accidents [Go to reference 6].

    Action to reduce the high rate of fatal and serious accidents suffered by
    cyclists must include: "

    Enuff. Don't doctors suffer from embarrassment? The only possible
    conclusion is that the people proposing this are either completely
    incompetent to do any kind of research whatsoever, or they are higly
    prejudiced.

    If I belonged to an organisation which didn't immediately rectify such gross
    errors, either the people in charge wouldn't have a job any more, or I
    wouldn't be a member. Kind of makes you think about what the average doctor
    is really like. Are they really happy to tolerate such behaviour in their
    name?

    Maybe it's time to try alternative medicine :-)

  3. Rich said:

    Enuff. Don't doctors suffer from embarrassment? The only possible
    conclusion is that the people proposing this are either completely
    incompetent to do any kind of research whatsoever, or they are higly
    prejudiced.

    I think it's technically known as a stitch-up, something surgeons in
    particular should be good at.

    --
    Dave...

  4. Quoted message said:

    It would be good to put pressure on to get the more egregious [censored]
    in the revised version pulled down - if they have to do it enough
    times they may decide to stop letting Nicky Jaysinghe make them look
    like a bunch of arses and get someone to do the job properly...

    email to [email hidden] (as advised by the site)

    Can you tell me why you are peddling (excuse the pun) this rubbish
    about compulsory helmet use for cyclists?

    Is there really any substantive evidence that helmets save lives? I
    was involved in a RTA 14 months ago where an uninsured driver ploughed
    into the back of me whilst I rode home from work, a journey that I had
    done for some 3 years without incident and without a helmet.
    According to anecdotal and "scientific" arguments I should not have
    survived this 40mph impact as I was not wearing a helmet.

    There are so many other things that would make cycling safer, such as
    reminding drivers to take regular eye tests (the driver that run me
    down actually told the police in her statement that she did not
    realise that she had hit me) or educating drivers to be more tolerant
    of vunerable road users including horse riders, cyclists and
    motorcyclists.

    Please stop this call for compulsion, the last thing we need in this
    country is more pointless, uneforceable and widely ignored laws.

    Allan Wishart

  5. Just zis Guy said:


    The answer to 2, according to the British Government ..... years during which head injury rates
    rose from around 40% to over 95%, and then fell again to just over
    90%. There is, in short, no credible evidence that the New Zealand
    law (to name but one) has delivered any benefit.

    ITYM helmet wearing rates.

    Tony

  6. Quoted message said:

    I thought so too. This is my reaction thus far - not sure what I'm
    going to do with it yet.

    Just skimmed through it. Reads very well - much more interesting than the
    stuff I should have been reading this morning.

    [para 4]

    Quoted message said:

    Road Safety Minister David Jamieson would surely not have stated, as he
    did in a letter to Michael Jack, MP, that the British Government knows
    of no data linking increases in helmet use with improvements in
    cycling safety.

    Would the government still claim this?

    [para 8]
    "head injury rates rose from around 40%.." should be helmet wearing rates.

    [para 9]

    Quoted message said:

    Even if pre-existing trends and trends for non-cyclists are ignored,
    so the results of all safety improvement for cyclists are attributed
    solely to helmets, the laws in New Zealand still resulted in less than
    a quarter of the injury reduction claimed in advance

    Does this mean that the decline in cycling didn't completely account for
    the drop in injury rates for cyclists?

    [para 10]

    Quoted message said:

    According to the US Consumer Products Safety Commission, the risk of
    head injury has approximately doubled during the period when helmet
    use rose from under 20% to around 50%

    Have cyclist KSIs continued to track those of other road users, but at a
    lower relative level than they used to?

    [para 11]
    You mentioned one of the new pieces of research. Was the finding you
    mentioned representative of the reports (cycle-relevent) findings? Are
    there really no post-1997 studies that have 'pro-helmet' findings (i.e. was
    this report cherry picked?)

    [para 12]

    Quoted message said:

    why were the 2003 figures not used?


    Were these a lot lower then? (I know, I know - stupid question :-). Wonder
    how low the 2004 ones'll be..

    [para 12]

    Quoted message said:

    The KSI figure for child cyclists in 2002 is about the same as that
    for bus users - does the BMA think that bus travel is especially
    dangerous?

    I see your point, but it might be read as 'same as that for [child] bus
    users' as IMO it isn't really a particularly valid comparison otherwise.

    [para 13]

    Quoted message said:

    written by ?the? Lee and Mann

    I suppose they could be that infamous to warrant a 'The'..

    [Para 17]

    Quoted message said:

    brings the claimed benefit down to zero within the limits of statistical
    accuracy.

    Presumably the statistics aren't very accurate. What's the 95% range
    thingy and is the zero you mention towards the end of this range?

    [para 18]

    Quoted message said:

    a 19 per cent reduction in head injuries to cyclists in the three
    years > after the intoduction of legislation

    You mention a careful selection of timeframe, but the study is the three
    years after legislation! In what way was this a careful selection of
    timeframe?

    [Para 21]

    Quoted message said:

    much of the claimed reduction in head injuries turns out to have happened


    before the programme started.

    Out of pure interest, did they manage to claim the crdit for the reductions
    that happened before the programme started? If so, how?

    [para 25]

    Quoted message said:

    a poll of the BMA's own members placed helmets last in the hierarcgy
    of possible effectiveness of various measures.

    I can't believe that a load of normal doctors would be that sceptical of
    the benefits of magic helmets! How representative was this poll of true
    opinion amongst doctors?

    Quoted message said:

    I am not aware of any objective assessment of the relative merits of
    various cycle safety interventions which puts helmets anywhere other
    than last.

    How many objective assessments are you aware of?

    [para 27]

    Quoted message said:

    Lack of enforcement meant that helmet weearing rates did not change
    after passage of the law

    Did wearing rates really not change? Did rates rise sharply in the run up
    to the law?

  7. Thanks for the comments, gents - updated and stuck on the website for
    want of a better use for it right now.

    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/public.nsf/Documents/BMA

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

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