Chain hell

Richard said:

So after fifteen minutes wrestling with the chain tool last night in the
dark and cold after my chain disintegrated spectacularly:

- is there a better way to reduce the tension on the open ends, other
than small ring-small ring and tie the derailleur up with an old toe strap?

A piece of bent coat hanger wire to slot between individual links.

Quoted message said:

- is it better to try to make the join on to the top or the bottom?

I prefer the top, but that is usually because the bike is on the ground. I
also prefer quick links that make it a doddle to do the rejoining.

Quoted message said:

- is there any way of doing it without getting hands filthy? :-) I'm
seriously contemplating latex glubs, but I don't know if they'll corrode
with the oil/grease.

Latex gloves work fine. They won't corrode in the timescale you'll be using
them.

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way of loosening the extracted/replaced rivet when
it's stiff, other than giving it repeated small pokes each way with the
chain tool?

Use a quick link.

Quoted message said:

- when I got home I put a new chain on, with one of them split links.
Is there any way to undo one, once it's snapped itself closed?

Yes. Snap it the other way and it will come undone. That is why it is called
a quick link. There are two types (at least) that look like normal links.
One uses two identical pieces, each with one hole and one pin. The other has
a plate with two pins and a plate with two holes.

For the former, fold the chain and use a big pair of pliers across teh
appropriate diagonal to unclip. For the latter, keep the chain straight and
bend it across the axis of the pins to push the two pins together, releasing
the plate.

Easy as pie, and with latex (or vinyl) gloves, a clean job.

...d

Richard composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

So after fifteen minutes wrestling with the chain tool last night in the
dark and cold after my chain disintegrated spectacularly:

- is there a better way to reduce the tension on the open ends, other
than small ring-small ring and tie the derailleur up with an old toe
strap?

- is it better to try to make the join on to the top or the bottom?

- is there any way of doing it without getting hands filthy? :-) I'm
seriously contemplating latex glubs, but I don't know if they'll corrode
with the oil/grease.

- is there a better way of loosening the extracted/replaced rivet when
it's stiff, other than giving it repeated small pokes each way with the
chain tool?

- when I got home I put a new chain on, with one of them split links.
Is there any way to undo one, once it's snapped itself closed?

R, dirty and, er, cranky.

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Richard composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way to reduce the tension on the open ends, other
than small ring-small ring and tie the derailleur up with an old toe
strap?

Take the chain off the front rings completely.

Quoted message said:

- is it better to try to make the join on to the top or the bottom?

Whatever's most comfortable for you, and the bike. Easiest on my mtb at the
top, easiest on my wifes road bike on the bottom as she has a chain guard.

Quoted message said:

- is there any way of doing it without getting hands filthy? :-) I'm
seriously contemplating latex glubs, but I don't know if they'll corrode
with the oil/grease.

Well worth the tiny room they take up, and are 'throw away' [1] items.

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way of loosening the extracted/replaced rivet when
it's stiff, other than giving it repeated small pokes each way with the
chain tool?

Not really, but it shouldn't be _that_ stiff in the first place, so I guess
regular maintenance.

Quoted message said:

- when I got home I put a new chain on, with one of them split links.
Is there any way to undo one, once it's snapped itself closed?

Buy a spare (or a few) snap link, then you can just prise the other one off
and replace it with the new one.

[1] Take home and dispose of properly, of course.

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

David Martin said:

Richard said:

So after fifteen minutes wrestling with the chain tool last night in the
dark and cold after my chain disintegrated spectacularly:

- is there a better way to reduce the tension on the open ends, other
than small ring-small ring and tie the derailleur up with an old toe strap?

A piece of bent coat hanger wire to slot between individual links.

Oooh, good plan. (goes off to raid the wardrobe...)

Quoted message said:

Yes. Snap it the other way and it will come undone. That is why it is called
a quick link. There are two types (at least) that look like normal links.
One uses two identical pieces, each with one hole and one pin. The other has
a plate with two pins and a plate with two holes.

For the former, fold the chain and use a big pair of pliers across teh
appropriate diagonal to unclip.

Hmm. I think I need to practise my technique. All that was happening
was that the link kept sliding at 45 degrees to the pliers line, the
bell at one end folding into the curve of the link on the other side (if
that makes sense)

cheers,
R.

Richard said:

- when I got home I put a new chain on, with one of them split links. Is
there any way to undo one, once it's snapped itself closed?

If it's a SRAM Powerlink then the Magic Piece Of Information is to
squeeze the sides together at the same time you push the ends towards
towards one another. As long as you do that, they come apart again
fairly easily.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

- is there any way of doing it without getting hands filthy? :-) I'm
seriously contemplating latex glubs, but I don't know if they'll
corrode with the oil/grease.

I use cheapo disposable gloves. They're pants but kid of work.

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way of loosening the extracted/replaced rivet when
it's stiff, other than giving it repeated small pokes each way with
the chain tool?

<URL:http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQtchan.shtml>

Scroll down to tight link thingy without chain tool.

Quoted message said:

- when I got home I put a new chain on, with one of them split links.
Is there any way to undo one, once it's snapped itself closed?

If it's the one with two identical pieces, press the sides in. The ends
move slightly. You can now slide the two sides towards each other and
they'll come apart in your hand. Once you've got the knack it takes a
couple of seconds - honest!

Paul - censored said:

Richard composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way of loosening the extracted/replaced rivet
when it's stiff, other than giving it repeated small pokes each way
with the chain tool?

Not really, but it shouldn't be _that_ stiff in the first place, so I
guess regular maintenance.

I assume Richard is asking how to deal with the situation where the
link is stiff where you have rejoined the chain. I believe the
"repeated pokes" technique should not be used with 9 and 10 speed
chains, which should also be rejoined only with a special pin, not the
rivet that was originally there. The way to free these links is simply
to grasp the chain firmly either side of the stiff link and flex it
strongly from side to side.

Definitely an argument for carrying latex gloves and a spare powerlink
in the tool bag.

The powerlinks BTW can be undone by squeezing the plates together as if
trying to narrow the chain, then sliding them open.

The easy way to take the tension off the chain is simply to lift it off
the chainring, as someone else has already mentioned.

--
Dave...

dkahn400 said:

I assume Richard is asking how to deal with the situation where the
link is stiff where you have rejoined the chain. I believe the
"repeated pokes" technique should not be used with 9 and 10 speed
chains, which should also be rejoined only with a special pin, not the
rivet that was originally there. The way to free these links is simply
to grasp the chain firmly either side of the stiff link and flex it
strongly from side to side.

The tried and trusted technique seems to work OK with SRAM 9 speed chains.
At least, it does on mine...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Quoted message said:

I use cheapo disposable gloves. They're pants but kid of work.

So are they gloves or pants? 🙂

Succorso said:

Quoted message said:

I use cheapo disposable gloves. They're pants but kid of work.

So are they gloves or pants? 🙂

Latex pants? This /is/ getting interesting...

in message <[email hidden]>, Richard

(') said:

So after fifteen minutes wrestling with the chain tool last night in
the dark and cold after my chain disintegrated spectacularly:

- is there a better way to reduce the tension on the open ends, other
than small ring-small ring and tie the derailleur up with an old toe
strap?

You can get a double hook (and this often comes with the chain-tool -
certainly does with my Alien) which spans about three links of the
chain and thus prevents the ends springing apart while you're working.

Quoted message said:

- is it better to try to make the join on to the top or the bottom?

Bottom, IME.

Quoted message said:

- is there any way of doing it without getting hands filthy? :-) I'm
seriously contemplating latex glubs, but I don't know if they'll
corrode with the oil/grease.

I keep some of the individual foil-packed wet wipes which come with
packs of sushi in my bike bag - useful for cleaning fingers after such
events.

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way of loosening the extracted/replaced rivet when
it's stiff, other than giving it repeated small pokes each way with
the chain tool?

The chain tool has (or should have) a second shoulder in the middle,
away from the side fence. Sit the chain on this shoulder and screw the
screw half a turn.

Quoted message said:

- when I got home I put a new chain on, with one of them split links.
Is there any way to undo one, once it's snapped itself closed?

Yes, easy, but how depends on which sort. The SRAM ones, squeeze and
push the ends together (easy). Some of the others, bend the chain
towards the removable-plate side.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig subject to change without notice ]

Richard said:

So after fifteen minutes wrestling with the chain tool last night in
the dark and cold after my chain disintegrated spectacularly:

- is there a better way to reduce the tension on the open ends, other
than small ring-small ring and tie the derailleur up with an old toe
strap?

I just take it off the chainring.

Quoted message said:

- is there any way of doing it without getting hands filthy? :-) I'm
seriously contemplating latex glubs, but I don't know if they'll
corrode with the oil/grease.

I don't know either but there are similar gloves in vinyl that don't.

Using a wax lube also cuts down the mess, a lot, but unfortunately doesn't
actually lubricate as well as oil.

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way of loosening the extracted/replaced rivet when
it's stiff, other than giving it repeated small pokes each way with
the chain tool?

Yes, use tool with a spreader. See
www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQtchan.shtml

Quoted message said:

- when I got home I put a new chain on, with one of them split links.
Is there any way to undo one, once it's snapped itself closed?

An SRAM Powerlink will eliminate all Chain Hell and is undone by
compressing and sliding at the same time, then wiggling. No tools
required, except for the best tools on the planet: human fingers & thumbs

~PB

dkahn400 composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

Paul - censored said:

Richard composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way of loosening the extracted/replaced rivet
when it's stiff, other than giving it repeated small pokes each way
with the chain tool?

Not really, but it shouldn't be _that_ stiff in the first place, so I
guess regular maintenance.

I assume Richard is asking how to deal with the situation where the
link is stiff where you have rejoined the chain.

No worries, I simply read it (and, with hindsight it's pretty obvious to me
I read it wrongly) as a stiff link that was possibly corroded, rather than
merely stiff .. 😉

Quoted message said:

I believe the
"repeated pokes" technique should not be used with 9 and 10 speed
chains, which should also be rejoined only with a special pin, not the
rivet that was originally there. The way to free these links is simply
to grasp the chain firmly either side of the stiff link and flex it
strongly from side to side.

I agree.

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Succorso composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I use cheapo disposable gloves. They're pants but kid of work.

So are they gloves or pants? 🙂

And where does the baby goat come into it?

😉

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Geraint Jones composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

David Martin said:

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way to reduce the tension on the open ends, other
than small ring-small ring and tie the derailleur up with an old toe

strap?

A piece of bent coat hanger wire to slot between individual links.

Isn't that what bits of broken spoke are for? (But only
if you've been riding for long enough to accumulate enough
broken spokes to repair everything else you need broken
spokes to repair. How do non-cyclists manage without a
few broken spokes about the house?)

Heheheh, they manage quite easily, they all use bent wire coat-hangers ...

I'll get me coat .. 😉

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Richard
([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way of loosening the extracted/replaced rivet when
it's stiff, other than giving it repeated small pokes each way with
the chain tool?

The chain tool has (or should have) a second shoulder in the middle,
away from the side fence. Sit the chain on this shoulder and screw the
screw half a turn.

This is Useful and Important. I'd been using chain rivet tools for
decades without ever bothering to find out why they have two "saddles".
A wee while back I had to buy a new one and this time actually read
the instructions. Eureka! Since then I've used the higher saddle each
time I've broken a chain and solved the stiff link problem instantly. Duh!

--
Brian G

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul - [censored]

(') said:

Succorso composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I use cheapo disposable gloves. They're pants but kid of work.

So are they gloves or pants? 🙂

And where does the baby goat come into it?

Kid gloves. Don't you know anything?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

Simon Brooke composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul - [censored]

(') said:

Succorso composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

> I use cheapo disposable gloves. They're pants but kid of work.

So are they gloves or pants? 🙂

And where does the baby goat come into it?

Kid gloves. Don't you know anything?

I refer the honourable poster to the last line of my sig ... 😉

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Richard said:

So after fifteen minutes wrestling with the chain tool last night in the
dark and cold after my chain disintegrated spectacularly:

- is there a better way to reduce the tension on the open ends, other
than small ring-small ring and tie the derailleur up with an old toe strap?

- is it better to try to make the join on to the top or the bottom?

Whenever I have split or joined a chain I have done it with the chain
off the chainring so there is no tension in it. Just check you have
the right length with it on the big ring and big sprocket before
taking links out. I always break and remake the chain at the bottom,
that way it is supported by the sprockets and BB area of the frame and
I dont have to hold it in place whilst working the chain tool

Quoted message said:

- is there any way of doing it without getting hands filthy? :-) I'm
seriously contemplating latex glubs, but I don't know if they'll corrode
with the oil/grease.

Get some plastic ones, they will not rot and can be left in your
emergency kit long term.

Quoted message said:

- is there a better way of loosening the extracted/replaced rivet when
it's stiff, other than giving it repeated small pokes each way with the
chain tool?

When you remake it you drive the pin in and it tightens the outer
plates onto the inner ones. To loosen the link once you have remade it
you have to press the link using the part of the chain tool designed
for that -- the bit where the top side plate is supported but not the
bottom (top being the side you are driving the pin from) and give it a
quarter(?) turn to free it up. There are a given number of turns to
drive a pin out so that it stays in the outer plate and for driving it
back in (less the part turn to free it up) but I can never remember.
It's all a bit trial and error in my case, judging by eye how much to
leave the pin protruding each side -- in decent light your eyes make
quite good measuring devices.

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"