Gears - confused

Quoted message said:

I have a query regarding gears if anyone would care to listen 🙂

Technically that was a statement rather than a question :-).

Quoted message said:

Some configurations I use are causing a hellish Clicking sound when cycling.

Your Tiagra mechanism can't handle cross chaining on a 9 speed triple. Either don't cross chain or
give the front der more slop on both stops. In other words trim.

You really have to watch that cross chaining on 9-speed, I know it's supposed to be point and click
but it ain't there yet.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

x-no-archive:yes

Quoted message said:

I have a Raleigh Sport 300 27 Speed model and I have a query regarding

gears

Quoted message said:

if anyone would care to listen 🙂

The bike has three front gears and 9 rear gears. Some configurations I

use

Quoted message said:

are causing a hellish Clicking sound when cycling. It seems to happen

when

Quoted message said:

I am on the "large" gear at the front and "small" gear at the back or vice versa. However if I can
choose gears which allow the chain to remain straight across both sets it seems to be fine. Not a
complaint, just an observation.

Would like to say the bike is a dream to ride, I can climb hills rapidly, normally 10MPH when on
the easiest gear and if I get a good downhill section, I am coming close to 50MPH - my record so
far is 45.4MPH. I use the PANORAM cycle computer to record this info, it too is cool.

Thanks,

Gary.

Gary, for all practical purposes, the outside and inside gear combinations are unusable on any bike.
This is called cross-chaining and results in the gears being worn out by the friction. It is
actually as if you are sawing on your gears when pulling the chain across them at such a severe
angle. The fix? don't do it. It's just that simple. Your "27 speed" bike is actually a "25 speed"
bike because of this. If you are truly going 45.5 MPH downhill, I sure hope you have good brakes!

Pat in Texas

In article <[email hidden]>, Gary
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Um...

Large front to small back isn't cross-chaining. Large to large and small to small is cross chaining.
Sounds more to me like the limit screws on the front mech are set a little tight

Eric S. Sande said:

Quoted message said:

I have a query regarding gears if anyone would care to listen 🙂

Technically that was a statement rather than a question :-).

Quoted message said:

Some configurations I use are causing a hellish Clicking sound when cycling.

Your Tiagra mechanism can't handle cross chaining on a 9 speed triple. Either don't cross chain or
give the front der more slop on both stops. In other words trim.

You really have to watch that cross chaining on 9-speed, I know it's supposed to be point and
click but it ain't there yet.

AFAICT he was not referring to cross-chaining. He was using the large ring and "smallest" cog in
back. Why in quotes I don't know. Anyway, that is not cross-chaining. He probably needs to get the
limit screw adjusted.

You are right that Tiagra has inadequate front shifting design. Higher-end Shimano, and all Campy,
shifters allow trimming of the front derailleur, which is a better idea than trying to over-design
the derailleur cage to work without trimming.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but _`\(,_ | what canst thou say?
-- George Fox. (_)/ (_) |

Pat said:

Gary, for all practical purposes, the outside and inside gear combinations are unusable on
any bike.

Big front and small rear is not cross-chaining, but it isn't clear what he really meant.

Quoted message said:

This is called cross-chaining and results in the gears being worn out by the friction. It is
actually as if you are sawing on your gears when pulling the chain across them at such a
severe angle.

As dramatic as that sounds, you can say the same thing about anything other than a perfectly
straight chainline. The main reason to avoid cross-chaining is that you will always be rubbing on
the front cage, or rubbing the chain on the outer ring (in a small-small combination), or have
spontaneous shifting.

Quoted message said:

The fix? don't do it. It's just that simple.

Well, yes.

Quoted message said:

Your "27 speed" bike is actually a "25 speed" bike because of this.

Actually, it is a lot less than that, if you want to count actually different ratios.

Quoted message said:

If you are truly going 45.5 MPH downhill, I sure hope you have good brakes!

That is not so outrageous a speed, on a good downhill stretch. You don't have too many of them in
Texas, though.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little statesmen
and philosophers and divines. --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson

David L. Johnson said:

You are right that Tiagra has inadequate front shifting design. Higher-end Shimano, and all Campy,
shifters allow trimming of the front derailleur, which is a better idea than trying to over-design
the derailleur cage to work without trimming.

-

They and a few others, I'm told. It looks like the way users/riders would like to go is indexed rear
shifters and friction fronts. That would sure work for me. It likely could be worked into twist
shifters and "rapid fire" style trigger shifters too.

This may sound awful to those out there who keep their gear tip top all the time, but when I had
friction shifters on my old 10 speed around <gasp> 30 years ago, I could get all the gears even when
my derailleurs were in desperate need of adjustment. Can't say the same for my indexed shifters
today. You win a few, you lose a few....

Best regards, Bernie

David L. Johnson said:

Pat said:

Gary, for all practical purposes, the outside and inside gear combinations are unusable on
any bike.

Big front and small rear is not cross-chaining, but it isn't clear what he really meant.

Quoted message said:

This is called cross-chaining and results in the gears being worn out by the friction. It is
actually as if you are sawing on your gears when pulling the chain across them at such a
severe angle.

As dramatic as that sounds, you can say the same thing about anything other than a perfectly
straight chainline. The main reason to avoid cross-chaining is that you will always be rubbing on
the front cage, or rubbing the chain on the outer ring (in a small-small combination), or have
spontaneous shifting.

Quoted message said:

The fix? don't do it. It's just that simple.

Well, yes.

Quoted message said:

Your "27 speed" bike is actually a "25 speed" bike because of this.

Actually, it is a lot less than that, if you want to count actually different ratios.

Quoted message said:

If you are truly going 45.5 MPH downhill, I sure hope you have good brakes!

That is not so outrageous a speed, on a good downhill stretch. You don't have too many of them in
Texas, though.

I don't think that 45.5 is much at all -- I hit this speed every time I ride, but the part of CT I
live in is hilly. In fact, my ride is basically one big hill -- I'm either going up or down a hill.
(My speedometer said I hit 56 mph last time, but I'm hesitant to believe this.)

--
Bob M in CT

Quoted message said:

This may sound awful to those out there who keep their gear tip top all

the

Quoted message said:

time, but when I had friction shifters on my old 10 speed around <gasp> 30 years ago, I could get
all the gears even when my derailleurs were in desperate need of adjustment. Can't say the same
for my indexed shifters today. You win a few, you lose a few....

Converting to friction shifting, from the comforts of indexed shifting, IMHO, is a pain in the rear.
1. The levers when properly adjusted to sufficient friction need rather significant force to shift.
Even with a strong thumb (nothing beats barre chords on a guitar for thumb training) it's rather
difficult.
2. The friction knobs go loose after every 100 or so miles, and have to be retightened
3. A gear shift used to take a split second, with friction shifters it's a few seconds - overshift,
then backshift a little.
4. Indexed shifter: *click* *thunk* Friction shifter: *clickclickclick* *brrraaaazzaaatttt*
*click* *thunk*
5. Trigger shifters? Fat hope.

Though they need slightly less maintainence (it's worth the trouble for indexed shifting IMHO) and
pose less compatibility problems, I vehemently hate them.

The Real Lee Casey

OK _ I got it wrong, it was large to Large and Small to Small which is causing clicking.

Thanks,

Gary.

"Gary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I have a Raleigh Sport 300 27 Speed model and I have a query regarding

gears

Quoted message said:

if anyone would care to listen 🙂

The bike has three front gears and 9 rear gears. Some configurations I

use

Quoted message said:

are causing a hellish Clicking sound when cycling. It seems to happen

when

Quoted message said:

I am on the "large" gear at the front and "small" gear at the back or vice versa. However if I can
choose gears which allow the chain to remain straight across both sets it seems to be fine. Not a
complaint, just an observation.

Would like to say the bike is a dream to ride, I can climb hills rapidly, normally 10MPH when on
the easiest gear and if I get a good downhill section, I am coming close to 50MPH - my record so
far is 45.4MPH. I use the PANORAM cycle computer to record this info, it too is cool.

Thanks,

Gary.

Gary said:

OK _ I got it wrong, it was large to Large and Small to Small which is causing clicking.

Ah. The other responses are right. "Doc, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that."

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand _`\(,_ | mathematics. (_)/ (_) |

Roberto said:

I don't think that 45.5 is much at all -- I hit this speed every time I ride, but the part of CT I
live in is hilly. In fact, my ride is basically one big hill -- I'm either going up or down a
hill. (My speedometer said I hit 56 mph last time, but I'm hesitant to believe this.)

I've ridden in rural CT. This is not hard to believe at all.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong. _`\(,_ | He's not the kind
you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian (_)/ (_) | Anderson

The Real Lee Casey said:

Quoted message said:

This may sound awful to those out there who keep their gear tip top all

the

Quoted message said:

time, but when I had friction shifters on my old 10 speed around <gasp> 30 years ago, I could
get all the gears even when my derailleurs were in desperate need of adjustment. Can't say the
same for my indexed shifters today. You win a few, you lose a few....

Converting to friction shifting, from the comforts of indexed shifting, IMHO, is a pain in
the rear.
1. The levers when properly adjusted to sufficient friction need rather significant force to
shift. Even with a strong thumb (nothing beats barre chords on a guitar for thumb training)
it's rather difficult.
2. The friction knobs go loose after every 100 or so miles, and have to be retightened
3. A gear shift used to take a split second, with friction shifters it's a few seconds -
overshift, then backshift a little.
4. Indexed shifter: *click* *thunk* Friction shifter: *clickclickclick* *brrraaaazzaaatttt*
*click* *thunk*
5. Trigger shifters? Fat hope.

Though they need slightly less maintainence (it's worth the trouble for indexed shifting IMHO) and
pose less compatibility problems, I vehemently hate them.

The Real Lee Casey

Well I don't "hate" friction shifters, and I do enjoy friction shifters, especially on the rear. It
was likely easier to friction shift way back when there were only five rear cogs - chains were
wider, tolerances were a bit bigger

. Fronts are another matter. I've got these wrist shifters, twist shifters, you know the kind. Mine
don't have a trim feature, and I feel I'd do alright with a friction shifter for the front. Don't
know how I'd mount one though. Of course, I'm talking commuting and general riding here, not the
PBP or The Tour de France. Regards, Bernie