sleep and training

"Selene" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know that one of the 'symptoms' of over-training is insomnia, but I seem
to have the reverse problem.

No, I'm not over-training. Rather, when I _don't_ train, I have trouble
falling or staying asleep.

At first I thought it was random, but lately it has been very consistent.
On days when I play or lift, I sleep like the proverbial log (or dog, in

my

Quoted message said:

house. My 'new' dog is the best sleeper I've ever seen, and she snores

like

Quoted message said:

a sailor. A sweetie when she's awake, she's worthless as a watchdog - not
that that's why I got her....but I digress...)

As I was saying...

On days when I play or lift, I sleep just fine. On 'rest' days, it takes
forever to get to sleep, and I wake up once or twice a night, with trouble
returning to sleep. So my rest isn't all that restful.

I'm wondering if I just shouldn't bother with rest days (though last

Monday,

Quoted message said:

after the Sunday three-hour, short-sided, bruise-bash, soccer-marathon,

the

Quoted message said:

thought of doing anything more physical than sitting in the hot tub was
right out).

Possibly a good seeing-to on non-training days might help.

(dammit, Selene, someone was going to suggest it, I thought it might as well
come from a friendly face🙂)

Stephen

what do you eat on your rest days? How do you feel on your rest days?
Do you have the energy to exercise, or are you really physically tired.
How is your mental state on your rest days vs. your exercise days?
Maybe you should switch things up, rest on the days you usually lift
and rest on the days you usually rest. Switching things up keeps the
body constantly readjusting to the needs in the day. Keep us all
updated.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:41:42 -0800, "Selene" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I know that one of the 'symptoms' of over-training is insomnia, but I seem
to have the reverse problem.

No, I'm not over-training. Rather, when I _don't_ train, I have trouble
falling or staying asleep.

At first I thought it was random, but lately it has been very consistent.
On days when I play or lift, I sleep like the proverbial log (or dog, in my
house. My 'new' dog is the best sleeper I've ever seen, and she snores like
a sailor. A sweetie when she's awake, she's worthless as a watchdog - not
that that's why I got her....but I digress...)

As I was saying...

On days when I play or lift, I sleep just fine. On 'rest' days, it takes
forever to get to sleep, and I wake up once or twice a night, with trouble
returning to sleep. So my rest isn't all that restful.

I'm wondering if I just shouldn't bother with rest days (though last Monday,
after the Sunday three-hour, short-sided, bruise-bash, soccer-marathon, the
thought of doing anything more physical than sitting in the hot tub was
right out).

Does anyone else have this problem? Do you plan rest days? Do you rest
okay?

I have the opposite problem - when I train, at least when I train in
the evenings, I often have trouble falling asleep that night.
Training tires my body but seems to make my mind race.

Ellis

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

what do you eat on your rest days? How do you feel on your rest days?
Do you have the energy to exercise, or are you really physically tired.
How is your mental state on your rest days vs. your exercise days?
Maybe you should switch things up, rest on the days you usually lift
and rest on the days you usually rest. Switching things up keeps the
body constantly readjusting to the needs in the day. Keep us all
updated.

So rest all the time?

no, switch things up. Your body is constantly trying to adapt, and
learn what you are doing to your body. Example, if you would go out
and buy a heavy weight that might be say for instance, 100 lbs, now I
know that I would have a hard time using it for exercising. But say I
could barely lift it off of the ground, but everyday I try to do more
and more, eventually I would be able to lift it off the ground, then as
more time goes by after more lifting and more exercising with weight,
my body would make the appriate muscle modifications to use the weight,
pretty much what I am saying is that your body gets a routine, but your
body is good at dealing with change, and in fact that is what your body
needs all the time CHANGE. Never do a lifting exercise for more that a
month, after that change it up, your body will get used to it. For
Selene change things up a little bit and see what happens. Eating is
another big things, why, because that is the one thing that we do the
most, after that it is going to the bathroom, then sleeping, if one of
these is not good, then the other is not going to be good either.

I have both problems. Im getting ready for a contest now and I have no
rest days. I have a hard time sleeping...but I do get 5-6 hours, not
nearly enough. Off-season I sleep easily on workout days and if I take
a week off, its hard to sleep more than 5 hours.
So, I think its normal, what your describing.

Tony Kehl
Developing Fitness Programs for Individuals
[email hidden]
www.simplefitness.biz

Enoch said:

no, switch things up. Your body is constantly trying to adapt, and
learn what you are doing to your body. Example, if you would go out
and buy a heavy weight that might be say for instance, 100 lbs, now I
know that I would have a hard time using it for exercising. But say

I

Quoted message said:

could barely lift it off of the ground, but everyday I try to do more
and more, eventually I would be able to lift it off the ground,

No, that's not true at all.

Never do a lifting exercise for more that a

Quoted message said:

month

And that's nonsense, too.

Stephen

Whats nonsense? And yes your body is adapting to things all the time.
Try this exercisgin thing. This is what I did. I took a 30lb dumbell,
and took both hands and pretended it was like a sword. After a week of
swinging that thing around, I can now pick it up with much more easy.
I am now using one hand to pretend it is like a sword, granted it is
harder with one hand, but I will eventually grow muscle for it. I
spend about 5 to 10 minutes a day doing this. I don't make my self
tired, and I am not sore the next day. You guys should broaden your
horizens and read some things other than the normal stuff. Paval the
Russian guy has some good things to say. If you guys really want to
take this serious, I found this article a while ago. It is
interesting, it is were I got the 2 week theory. This has unlimited
results, but you have to email me to get it, I might then send it.

You could "cross-train" on rest days.
LIke take a long walk or swim.

"Enoch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whats nonsense?

It's nonsense that you should only do a particular lift for a month, THAT'S
what's nonsense. Is that any clearer?

Stephen

"Stephen Mulholland" pontificated

Quoted message said:

"Enoch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whats nonsense?

It's nonsense that you should only do a particular lift for a month,
THAT'S
what's nonsense. Is that any clearer?

But, but, Stephen, we wish a lecture on nonsense. With charts and graphs.
Perhaps even a powerpoint presentation.

LOL, some folks just don't understand the term, I guess.

what I am saying is the weight, and it should be alternated, one
exercise routine should not be done all the time, one routine this
month and another the next, that is what I ment. I did write it down
wrong, sorry. Some people go 8 weeks, but I think four weeks is maybe
even too long. Train hard, thats what I say, so you can change it up
in four weeks. Squat till you puke. And please don't be so negative.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Enoch said:

what I am saying is the weight, and it should be alternated, one
exercise routine should not be done all the time, one routine this
month and another the next, that is what I ment. I did write it down
wrong, sorry. Some people go 8 weeks, but I think four weeks is maybe
even too long. Train hard, thats what I say, so you can change it up
in four weeks. Squat till you puke. And please don't be so negative.

But that is what is 'nonsense'.

Ed Coan has used basically the same routine for 20 years. He squats over
1,000, deadlifts close to 900 and benches around 600. Are you saying he
should change his routine?

Adaptation requires changing training, but it is 'nonsense' to limit that
to changing exercises. You can change intensity, volume, frequency, etc.
For some there are compelling reasons not to change exercise selection.

Weight training is not limited to bodybuilding. Thank God!

"Stephen Mulholland" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Selene" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

[snip]

On days when I play or lift, I sleep just fine. On 'rest' days, it

takes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

forever to get to sleep, and I wake up once or twice a night, with

trouble

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

returning to sleep. So my rest isn't all that restful.

Possibly a good seeing-to on non-training days might help.

Ha!

Last time my partner asked, "What are these small round bruises?" I had to
reply, "Cleat marks."

Possibly ice packs might help :-p

S.

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

what do you eat on your rest days? How do you feel on your rest days?
Do you have the energy to exercise, or are you really physically tired.
How is your mental state on your rest days vs. your exercise days?
Maybe you should switch things up, rest on the days you usually lift
and rest on the days you usually rest. Switching things up keeps the
body constantly readjusting to the needs in the day. Keep us all
updated.

"bsmaster" who is also "enoch" - please, quote some of what you're replying
to (I understand it's an option on the bottom of the screen). Those of us
who don't read in google don't have eidetic memories...even for those
threads which we started.

Anyway, to answer your questions.

Regular stuff, same as I eat on non-rest days, except maybe not quite as
much.
Usually I feel pretty beat up on rest days, that's why I'm resting.
Strained and complainng muscles usually. Assorted bruises.
I'm usually only physically exhausted right after a workout or game.
My mental state is quite good on all days (subject to opinion :-). I get a
pretty good endorphin high on exercise days, usually followed by a nap.
I can't change the days I play, but I don't think my body is all 'adjusted'
to that schedule. Every game is different; some days I'm forward, somedays
I'm defense, some days we're short players, some days we have subs, some
days I score for my team, and some days I get kicked off for two yellow
cards.
My lifting definitely isn't in a rut (though I'm mostly doing rehab stuff
right now) because I like to change things around too often. A competitive
PLer I will never be; not enough focus (and it's not a goal of mine).
The only thing I do really regularly is work...at a desk (well, there is the
occasional field day - my last was a killer, slogging all day through
waist-deep swamp grass taking GPS readings...but I digress). And I often,
but not always, go to the gym during the day, so even that's not too static.

Short answer: I'm sure it's not over-training (as I said in my original
post). Maybe it's just old age. Or a tumor. Or time to take up golf ($1
to Brink).

Selene

"Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Selene said:

I know that one of the 'symptoms' of over-training is insomnia, but I

seem

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to have the reverse problem.

No, I'm not over-training. Rather, when I _don't_ train, I have trouble
falling or staying asleep.
[snip]

I have the opposite problem - when I train, at least when I train in
the evenings, I often have trouble falling asleep that night.
Training tires my body but seems to make my mind race.

I have similar trouble with late training. I've tried to get in the habit
of taking calcium beforehand and melatonin afterwards. They seem to help
(though if I take too much melatonin, I get the weirdest dreams).

Do you take any supplements, Ellis?

Selene

"Titan1969" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I have both problems. Im getting ready for a contest now and I have no
rest days. I have a hard time sleeping...but I do get 5-6 hours, not
nearly enough. Off-season I sleep easily on workout days and if I take
a week off, its hard to sleep more than 5 hours.
So, I think its normal, what your describing.

Gawd, I'd be dead if I only got 5-6 hours regularly, but that's me. I'd
also be dead with no rest days, but I'm a pansy.

My only concern with the short nights is that I am tired the next day; I
could sleep (and usually nap when I can). So it's not that I don't need the
sleep, it just doesn't come.

S.

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

You could "cross-train" on rest days.
LIke take a long walk or swim.

I thought about that. I'm already cross training somewhat (soccer and
lifting), so I'm concerned I need to get more rest. But maybe I just need
to do something different, and it would sort of be rest, sort of training.

Why couldn't the answer have been, "You just need to eat more ice cream" ;-)

Selene

In article <[email hidden]>,

Selene said:

"Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Selene" <[email hidden]> wrote:

I have the opposite problem - when I train, at least when I train in
the evenings, I often have trouble falling asleep that night.
Training tires my body but seems to make my mind race.

I have similar trouble with late training. I've tried to get in the habit
of taking calcium beforehand and melatonin afterwards. They seem to help
(though if I take too much melatonin, I get the weirdest dreams).

Do you take any supplements, Ellis?

I don't know whether melatonin as is typically used as a sleep aid
would exert any significant effects, but a recent study showed that
melatonin caused the release of gonadotropin inhibitory hormone,
which, if significant, wouldn't be what you'd want for training.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/02/07_melatoninfin.shtml

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