Bricks through windows.

Richard said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4268873.stm

is a piece about local volunteers manning a handheld speed camera in a
quiet village (speeders get reported to the police who give them a
warning).

<begin quote>

But not everyone is in favour. "I'm against it because it sets neighbour
against neighbour," says Suzan Johnstone, 48, who has lived here nearly
30 years.

"I know someone who's been caught twice and I think it makes people fall
out with each other. If you were my neighbour and you caught me three
times I would fall out with you.

"I don't want it to end with a brick through someone's window."

<end quote>

I bet she reads the Daily Mail.

I bet you are a new-Labour control freak totalitarian ?

neighbours spying on neighbours is completely [censored] and is reminiscent of
communist style tactics (quel surprise when so many Labour top-dogs are
ex-commies).

Quoted message said:

I bet you are a new-Labour control freak totalitarian ?

neighbours spying on neighbours is completely [censored] and is reminiscent of
communist style tactics (quel surprise when so many Labour top-dogs are
ex-commies).

OTOH, neighbours endangering their own neighbours with behaviour known
to be (a) unlawful and (b) dangerous and (c) in a public place in full
view of anyone with no invasion of privacy required is, at best,
anti-social. If your neighbours continually put you in danger while
breaking the law in full and open public view, do you think that they
should conform to the law and stop endangering you, or would it be the
case that nothing should be done because that would make you like the Stasi?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

Richard said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4268873.stm

is a piece about local volunteers manning a handheld speed camera in a
quiet village (speeders get reported to the police who give them a
warning).

<begin quote>

But not everyone is in favour. "I'm against it because it sets neighbour
against neighbour," says Suzan Johnstone, 48, who has lived here nearly
30 years.

"I know someone who's been caught twice and I think it makes people fall
out with each other. If you were my neighbour and you caught me three
times I would fall out with you.

"I don't want it to end with a brick through someone's window."

<end quote>

I bet she reads the Daily Mail.

I bet you are a new-Labour control freak totalitarian ?

You lose your bet.

Quoted message said:

neighbours spying on neighbours is completely [censored] and is reminiscent of
communist style tactics (quel surprise when so many Labour top-dogs are
ex-commies).

Ah, the Prejudicial Language and Post Hoc fallacy double whammy. Do
try and keep up at the back, there.

What we actually have is a neighbour threatening consequences if another
neighbour was to see her breaking the law and being extremely
antisocial. She proceeds into argumentum ad consequentiam, which tends
to be used by the Daily Wail editorials quite a bit.

R.

Richard said:

Quoted message said:

Richard said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4268873.stm

is a piece about local volunteers manning a handheld speed camera in a
quiet village (speeders get reported to the police who give them a
warning).

<begin quote>

But not everyone is in favour. "I'm against it because it sets neighbour
against neighbour," says Suzan Johnstone, 48, who has lived here nearly
30 years.

"I know someone who's been caught twice and I think it makes people fall
out with each other. If you were my neighbour and you caught me three
times I would fall out with you.

"I don't want it to end with a brick through someone's window."

<end quote>

I bet she reads the Daily Mail.

I bet you are a new-Labour control freak totalitarian ?

You lose your bet.

Quoted message said:

neighbours spying on neighbours is completely [censored] and is reminiscent of
communist style tactics (quel surprise when so many Labour top-dogs are
ex-commies).

Ah, the Prejudicial Language and Post Hoc fallacy double whammy. Do
try and keep up at the back, there.

Is Labour's totalitarian style in no way related to their political
upbringing as communists and right-wing socialists ?
I think they are related and Jack Straw wrote an intriguing letter to the
Indie boasting of his communist training and his ability to spot and weed
out Trots (another nasty bunch of control freaks).

Record levels of incarceration under Labour and record levels of privacy
invasion and shop-your-neighbour type schemes (rat on a rat etc ).

Like so many ex-communists (Mussolini , the NSDP ) they are equally at home
with fascism.

Quoted message said:

Is Labour's totalitarian style in no way related to their political
upbringing as communists and right-wing socialists ?

Whether it is or isn't is in no way related to the news item in question
or the response of the villager quoted (unless she happens to be a
member of, or particularly influential over, said goverment [1])

Indeed, it might be argued that schemes such as these, where power is
(partly) returned to villagers, is in direct opposition to a
totalitarian government.

Quoted message said:

Record levels of incarceration under Labour and record levels of privacy
invasion and shop-your-neighbour type schemes (rat on a rat etc ).

I'm not sure that the level of incarceration is a particularly useful
statistic. Does it mean that Labour are good at organising the police
to imprison more criminals or that they're bad at preventing crime?

Shop-your-neighbour schemes have their obvious and not so obvious
dangers, but I'm not sure that there's no place at all for them.

[1] Since the Labour Party have become the political wing of the Daily
Mail, I fear I may have shot myself in the foot there. :-)

R.

Richard said:

Quoted message said:

Is Labour's totalitarian style in no way related to their political
upbringing as communists and right-wing socialists ?

Whether it is or isn't is in no way related to the news item in question
or the response of the villager quoted (unless she happens to be a
member of, or particularly influential over, said goverment [1])

Indeed, it might be argued that schemes such as these, where power is
(partly) returned to villagers, is in direct opposition to a
totalitarian government.

Quoted message said:

Record levels of incarceration under Labour and record levels of privacy
invasion and shop-your-neighbour type schemes (rat on a rat etc ).

I'm not sure that the level of incarceration is a particularly useful
statistic.

Under clinton in the US it doubled from 1 million to 2 million under Blair
it has gone up 50 % from 50,000 to 77,000 and is rising to the 100,000
mark.
is this the sign of good govt or of intolerance and puritanism gone out of
control (they have passed a record number of new laws and have created a
record number of new criminal offences where none existed before).

Quoted message said:

Is Labour's totalitarian style in no way related to their political
upbringing as communists and right-wing socialists ?

Probably not. It's more likely to do with their aping of American
foreign and homeland policy.

And what the hell is a "right-wing socialist"?

Quoted message said:

I think they are related and Jack Straw wrote an intriguing letter to the
Indie boasting of his communist training and his ability to spot and weed
out Trots (another nasty bunch of control freaks).

Record levels of incarceration under Labour and record levels of privacy
invasion and shop-your-neighbour type schemes (rat on a rat etc ).

Like so many ex-communists (Mussolini , the NSDP ) they are equally at home
with fascism.

Which is all very interesting, but doesn't address the problem raised,
namely: Why is it unacceptable for a person to potentially monitor their
neighbour's behaviour, but acceptable for that neighbour to pose a
threat? Would it be more acceptable if the person who caught them were a
policeman? What if they were also a neighbour?

And more interestingly to me: What the hell are you going on about?
Where do your political allegiances lie that allows you to postulate on
the communist origins of the current government?

Jon

Quoted message said:

Under clinton in the US it doubled from 1 million to 2 million under Blair
it has gone up 50 % from 50,000 to 77,000 and is rising to the 100,000
mark.
is this the sign of good govt or of intolerance and puritanism gone out of
control (they have passed a record number of new laws and have created a
record number of new criminal offences where none existed before).

I think it's just that there are a lot of nasty people. Looking at the
number of chavs who do 50 burglaries and still escape prison, I can't
believe that the government is going OTT.

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Ah, the Prejudicial Language and Post Hoc fallacy double whammy. Do try
and keep up at the back, there.

What we actually have is a neighbour threatening consequences if another
neighbour was to see her breaking the law and being extremely antisocial.
She proceeds into argumentum ad consequentiam, which tends to be used by
the Daily Wail editorials quite a bit.

oh god, another one whose first language isn't English.

Quoted message said:

R.

Jon Senior jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk said:

Quoted message said:

Is Labour's totalitarian style in no way related to their political
upbringing as communists and right-wing socialists ?

Probably not. It's more likely to do with their aping of American
foreign and homeland policy.

And what the hell is a "right-wing socialist"?

communists, bolsheviks , trots etc as opposed to left wing libertarian
socialists, anarchists etc

Lenin famously wrote a pamphlet called "The infantile disorder of left-wing
communism"

In the Russian Revolution The Bolsheviks were right wing and the Social
Revolutionaries and Anarchists were left wing and the mensheviks were in
the middle.

Left wing being democratic and citizen controlled and right-wing being
dictatorial and party/state controlled.

The labour party has a few right-wing communists in its ranks.

Zog The Undeniable said:

Quoted message said:

Under clinton in the US it doubled from 1 million to 2 million under
Blair it has gone up 50 % from 50,000 to 77,000 and is rising to the
100,000 mark.
is this the sign of good govt or of intolerance and puritanism gone out
of control (they have passed a record number of new laws and have created
a record number of new criminal offences where none existed before).

I think it's just that there are a lot of nasty people.

I didn't realise cyclists were such totalitarians.
Lock em all up and throw away the key appears to be everyones motto here.
No wonder Labour do so well.
Everyone loves war , the profits it brings and locking up their neighbours
it appears.

Rich said:

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Ah, the Prejudicial Language and Post Hoc fallacy double whammy. Do try
and keep up at the back, there.

What we actually have is a neighbour threatening consequences if another
neighbour was to see her breaking the law and being extremely antisocial.
She proceeds into argumentum ad consequentiam, which tends to be used by
the Daily Wail editorials quite a bit.

oh god, another one whose first language isn't English.

What are you blathering on about?

R.

Richard said:

Rich said:

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Ah, the Prejudicial Language and Post Hoc fallacy double whammy. Do try
and keep up at the back, there.

What we actually have is a neighbour threatening consequences if another
neighbour was to see her breaking the law and being extremely antisocial.
She proceeds into argumentum ad consequentiam, which tends to be used by
the Daily Wail editorials quite a bit.

oh god, another one whose first language isn't English.

What are you blathering on about?

ergo hic propter helicopter . sum quod errant demonstratum,
nihil pihil po. veni vici VD.

Jon Senior said:

And what the hell is a "right-wing socialist"?

Presumably one of the many socialist millionaires who believe in
redistributing everyone's wealth except for their own (where the
redistribution is generally in their favour - vide Captain Bob raiding
pensions to fund his lavish lifestyle).

Tony

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:06:34 +0000 someone who may be
"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I didn't realise cyclists were such totalitarians.
Lock em all up and throw away the key appears to be everyones motto here.

Generally such comments express frustration at the inadequacies of
the UK, in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.

Quoted message said:

No wonder Labour do so well.

They did well because of the stupid voting system.

Quoted message said:

Everyone loves war , the profits it brings and locking up their neighbours
it appears.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765549.stm

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen said:

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:06:34 +0000 someone who may be
"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I didn't realise cyclists were such totalitarians.
Lock em all up and throw away the key appears to be everyones motto here.

Generally such comments express frustration at the inadequacies of
the UK, in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.

Quoted message said:

No wonder Labour do so well.

They did well because of the stupid voting system.

labours manifesto of 1997 promised a referendum on proportional
representation. but being the good bolsheviks that they are there was never
any chance of that. Lenin and the bolsheviks lost the democratic election
to the constituent assembly very heavily in 1917 and promptly dissolved it.
Blair is very much in the Lenin mould. as long as the system is rigged in
their favour and against the lib dems there is no way theyll change it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Everyone loves war , the profits it brings and locking up their neighbours
it appears.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765549.stm

and where are they all now ?
profiting from the enormous boost gven to the UK economy from the war.

Quoted message said:

labours manifesto of 1997 promised a referendum on proportional
representation. but being the good bolsheviks that they are there was
never any chance of that. Lenin and the bolsheviks lost the
democratic election to the constituent assembly very heavily in 1917
and promptly dissolved it. Blair is very much in the Lenin mould. as
long as the system is rigged in their favour and against the lib dems
there is no way theyll change it.

Welcome to our planet. It's called "Earth". Here, politicians of all
stripes are not known for telling the truth...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Quoted message said:

labours manifesto of 1997 promised a referendum on proportional
representation. but being the good bolsheviks that they are there was never
any chance of that.

Makes me sick too, but it's hardly them being "Bolsheviks", it's what
happens any time any UK political party goes from opposition to
government: they realise the things they wanted to get more chance of
being in government when they were in opposition will now work against
them, so it's not adopted.

Quoted message said:

Blair is very much in the Lenin mould. as long as the system is rigged in
their favour and against the lib dems there is no way theyll change it.

As above, this charge can be applied to any UK administration over the
time I've been remotely politically aware.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

labours manifesto of 1997 promised a referendum on proportional
representation. but being the good bolsheviks that they are there was
never any chance of that.

Makes me sick too, but it's hardly them being "Bolsheviks", it's what
happens any time any UK political party goes from opposition to
government: they realise the things they wanted to get more chance of
being in government when they were in opposition will now work against
them, so it's not adopted.

Quoted message said:

Blair is very much in the Lenin mould. as long as the system is rigged in
their favour and against the lib dems there is no way theyll change it.

As above, this charge can be applied to any UK administration over the
time I've been remotely politically aware.

It can be argued that the bolsheviks are the mould for all mass political
parties which have followed including the NSDP and Mussolini's mob.

Heavy centralisation, strict control over party members, relentless
propaganda, terror panics , internal enemies intent on the destruction of
the state/party ,constant witch-hunts and societal scapegoating are all
hallmarks of the bolsheviks and the modern day Labour party.

Also the strict puritanical streak which Labour displays is something they
have surely inherited from the communists.

As a member of a socialist party Blair must have more than a passing
knowledge of the works of Lenin et al.