Hayes Hydraulic lever pull question

"Alan McClure" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey everyone, I recently installed a hayes mag on my front wheel. It brakes just fine, but the
lever comes back further and feels softer than my v brake. I don't know if this is normal, because
I've never had a hayes brake before. I have bled it 3 times just to make sure there are no air
bubbles, and indeed, there seem to be none. I followed all the good steps including holding the
bike at 45 degrees with the lever facing directly upward etc. In short, I'm pretty sure that I did
everything correctly. That leads me to think that the lever is just softer than what I'm used to.
The lever comes back to about 1/2 cm from the grip though, which seems like quite a ways. Anyway,
I can't seem to find any specific info. about the feeling of the lever or how far back it should
come, so hopefully someone can give me a bit of guidance. As I mentioned, the brake works, but I
want it set up correctly if there is indeed a problem.

Thanks,

Alan

A properly set up Hayes lever should travel about an inch at the tip. There is a reach adjusment
screw where the piston connects to the brass insert in the lever. If you go to bleed it again get a
syringe (you can find them packaged with injectable maranades for meat at the grocery) to replace
that squeeze bottle. During the bleed process have someone flick the lever and let it snap back.
This 'shocks' the system and shakes loose any stubborn bubbles.

Mike

After a nice morning ride, I have noticed that although the brake is working(as I mentioned), it
isn't as strong as it should be--I'm using v brakes as a comparison which at this point seem quite a
bit stronger which I know shouldn't be the case. It seems to me that if there were enough fluid in
the system then the handle would be stiffer, and the caliper braking better. However, if there is
some air, then obviously that is a problem, but as far as I can tell from bleeding the system 3
times, there is no air. If there is, then it is stuck somewhere in the system, and I'm not able to
remove it for some reason. Yet again, let me mention that I followed to the letter the hayes
directions for bleeding the brake(3 times). So, I don't know why there would still be a problem. Any
similar situations out there?

Thanks again,

Alan "The Confused"

"Alan McClure" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After a nice morning ride, I have noticed that although the brake is working(as I mentioned), it
isn't as strong as it should be--I'm using v brakes as a comparison which at this point seem quite
a bit stronger which I know shouldn't be the case. It seems to me that if there were enough fluid
in the system then the handle would be stiffer, and the caliper braking better. However, if there
is some air, then obviously that is a problem, but as far as I can tell from bleeding the system 3
times, there is no air. If there is, then it is stuck somewhere in the system, and I'm not able to
remove it for some reason. Yet again, let me mention that I followed to the letter the hayes
directions for bleeding the brake(3 times). So, I don't know why there would still be a problem.
Any similar situations out there?

Thanks again,

Alan "The Confused"

A few questions for you:

Are these factory assembled or did you do it yourself?

How new are the pads? Many people see a lack of power till new pads are burned in although mine have
always been 100% from the beginning.

Some fairly common problems could be over tightening of the compression sleeve, if your sleeve is
even or protruding out of the compression nut, it's over torqued. A kinked hose...this had me
scratching my head for awhile when I kinked mine because no fluid leaked and the brake worked fine
at first. The inner hose lining was cracked but the fluid stayed within the outer sheath. Sticky
piston(s)....are they fully retracting after your let off the brakes?

You sound like you're pretty thorough with Hayes' bleed directions, but just to double check did
you make sure to do the "squeeze for 5 sec - let off for 3 sec, repeat" because this is the most
critical part to make sure you have a good air free bleed. Also, when you had the squeeze bottle
attached and all the air bubbles out, did you watch the master bleed hose to make sure it always
had fluid in it so it did have a chance to suck air into the master while you closed the caliper
bleeder screw?

Then there's always the possibility that they are just defective from the factory. Hopefully, this
isn't the case, but failures happen. Hayes has always been very helpful the couple times I've
called them.
--
Slacker

"Slacker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Alan McClure" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After a nice morning ride, I have noticed that although the brake is working(as I mentioned), it
isn't as strong as it should be--I'm using v brakes as a comparison which at this point seem
quite a bit stronger which I know shouldn't be the case. It seems to me that if there were
enough fluid in the system then the handle would be stiffer, and the caliper braking better.
However, if there is some air, then obviously that is a problem, but as far as I can tell from
bleeding the system 3 times, there is no air. If there is, then it is stuck somewhere in the
system, and I'm not able to remove it for some reason. Yet again, let me mention that I followed
to the letter the hayes directions for bleeding the brake(3 times). So, I don't know why there
would still be a problem. Any similar situations out there?

Thanks again,

Alan "The Confused"

A few questions for you:

Are these factory assembled or did you do it yourself?

How new are the pads? Many people see a lack of power till new pads are burned in although mine
have always been 100% from the beginning.

Some fairly common problems could be over tightening of the compression sleeve, if your sleeve is
even or protruding out of the compression nut, it's over torqued. A kinked hose...this had me
scratching my head for awhile when I kinked mine because no fluid leaked and the brake worked fine
at first. The inner hose lining was cracked but the fluid stayed within the outer sheath. Sticky
piston(s)....are they fully retracting after your let off the brakes?

You sound like you're pretty thorough with Hayes' bleed directions, but just to double check did
you make sure to do the "squeeze for 5 sec - let off for 3 sec, repeat" because this is the most
critical part to make sure you have a good air free bleed. Also, when you had the squeeze bottle
attached and all the air bubbles out, did you watch the master bleed hose to make sure it always
had fluid in it so it did have a chance to suck air into the master while you closed the caliper
bleeder screw?

Then there's always the possibility that they are just defective from the factory. Hopefully, this
isn't the case, but failures happen. Hayes has always been very helpful the couple times I've
called them.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Well, I bled the system one more time, and then when there was no
change I just gave up and took it to my LBS. They pointed out what michael Dart mentioned about the
adjustment screw for the reach which for some stupid reason I could manage to see. I didn't see that
it had a very small allen wrench fitting in it, and thought it was just a protruding piece that was
part of the lever. Well, anyway, now I know. Because the lever is perfectly fine now. To think that
I spent at least 2-3 hours total bleeding the system over and over, and it was such a simple thing.
Well, you know, I'll never make that mistake again. Thanks for the feedback though, and Slacker, I
did notice that my sleeve is even with the compression nut. I didn't have a torque wrench available,
so I just tightened it too much I suppose. Should I loosen it slightly? What problems can this
cause? Anyway, I suppose that I should invest in a torque wrench even though I just had a LBS talk
me out of it. Thanks again guys, this is one of those bike projects that took far more time than it
needed to, but yet is invaluable for learning how to do future brake work and installations.

Alan

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the feedback guys. Well, I bled the system one more time, and then when there was no
change I just gave up and took it to my LBS. They pointed out what michael Dart mentioned about
the adjustment screw for the reach which for some stupid reason I could manage to see. I didn't
see that it had a very small allen wrench fitting in it, and thought it was just a protruding
piece that was part of the lever. Well, anyway, now I know. Because the lever is perfectly fine
now. To think that I spent at least 2-3 hours total bleeding the system over and over, and it was
such a simple thing. Well, you know, I'll never make that mistake again. Thanks for the feedback
though, and Slacker, I did notice that my sleeve is even with the compression nut. I didn't have a
torque wrench available, so I just tightened it too much I suppose. Should I loosen it slightly?
What problems can this cause? Anyway, I suppose that I should invest in a torque wrench even
though I just had a LBS talk me out of it. Thanks again guys, this is one of those bike projects
that took far more time than it needed to, but yet is invaluable for learning how to do future
brake work and installations.

Alan

Whatever you do, DO NOT loosen the compression nut....just leave it as is. It may not even pose a
problem, it's just something that could, but if it aint broke then don't sweat it.

I think we've all make similar mistakes. Nothing like first hand experience learning.
--
Slacker

"Slacker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the feedback guys. Well, I bled the system one more time, and then when there was no
change I just gave up and took it to my LBS. They pointed out what michael Dart mentioned about
the adjustment screw for the reach which for some stupid reason I could manage to see. I didn't
see that it had a very small allen wrench fitting in it, and thought it was just a protruding
piece that was part of the lever. Well, anyway, now I know. Because the lever is perfectly fine
now. To think that I spent at least 2-3 hours total bleeding the system over and over, and it
was such a simple thing. Well, you know, I'll never make that mistake again. Thanks for the
feedback though, and Slacker, I did notice that my sleeve is even with the compression nut. I
didn't have a torque wrench available, so I just tightened it too much I suppose. Should I
loosen it slightly? What problems can this cause? Anyway, I suppose that I should invest in a
torque wrench even though I just had a LBS talk me out of it. Thanks again guys, this is one of
those bike projects that took far more time than it needed to, but yet is invaluable for
learning how to do future brake work and installations.

Alan

Whatever you do, DO NOT loosen the compression nut....just leave it as is.

It may not even pose a problem, it's just something that

Quoted message said:

could, but if it aint broke then don't sweat it.

I think we've all make similar mistakes. Nothing like first hand

experience learning.

Quoted message said:

--
Slacker

A Hayes tech told me that lacking a torque wrench (and crows foot) that the nut should be tightened
until the compression sleeve just shows out from under the nut. You heard something different?

Mike

Slacker <[email hidden]> spoke thusly...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the feedback guys. Well, I bled the system one more time, and then when there was no
change I just gave up and took it to my LBS. They pointed out what michael Dart mentioned about
the adjustment screw for the reach which for some stupid reason I could manage to see. I didn't
see that it had a very small allen wrench fitting in it, and thought it was just a protruding
piece that was part of the lever. Well, anyway, now I know. Because the lever is perfectly fine
now. To think that I spent at least 2-3 hours total bleeding the system over and over, and it
was such a simple thing. Well, you know, I'll never make that mistake again. Thanks for the
feedback though, and Slacker, I did notice that my sleeve is even with the compression nut. I
didn't have a torque wrench available, so I just tightened it too much I suppose. Should I
loosen it slightly? What problems can this cause? Anyway, I suppose that I should invest in a
torque wrench even though I just had a LBS talk me out of it. Thanks again guys, this is one of
those bike projects that took far more time than it needed to, but yet is invaluable for
learning how to do future brake work and installations.

Alan

Whatever you do, DO NOT loosen the compression nut....just leave it as is. It may not even pose a
problem, it's just something that could, but if it aint broke then don't sweat it.

I think we've all make similar mistakes. Nothing like first hand experience learning.
--
Slacker

Never fails to annoy me when folks say not to do something without the justification for it. what
does <something> do, and why do you not want to do it. i for one, and i assume several others, learn
best by being told why to do or not do something, rather than simply do, or do not do
it.
--
~Travis

megalink.net~farmersOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the feedback guys. Well, I bled the system one more time, and then when there was
no change I just gave up and took it to my LBS. They pointed out what michael Dart mentioned
about the adjustment screw for the reach which for some stupid reason I could manage to see. I
didn't see that it had a very small allen wrench fitting in it, and thought it was just a
protruding piece that was part of the lever. Well, anyway, now I know. Because the lever is
perfectly fine now. To think that I spent at least 2-3 hours total bleeding the system over
and over, and it was such a simple thing. Well, you know, I'll never make that mistake again.
Thanks for the feedback though, and Slacker, I did notice that my sleeve is even with the
compression nut. I didn't have a torque wrench available, so I just tightened it too much I
suppose. Should I loosen it slightly? What problems can this cause? Anyway, I suppose that I
should invest in a torque wrench even though I just had a LBS talk me out of it. Thanks again
guys, this is one of those bike projects that took far more time than it needed to, but yet is
invaluable for learning how to do future brake work and installations.

Alan

Whatever you do, DO NOT loosen the compression nut....just leave it as is.

It may not even pose a problem, it's just something that

Quoted message said:

could, but if it aint broke then don't sweat it.

I think we've all make similar mistakes. Nothing like first hand

experience learning.

Quoted message said:

--
Slacker

A Hayes tech told me that lacking a torque wrench (and crows foot) that the nut should be
tightened until the compression sleeve just shows out from under the nut. You heard something
different?

Mike

Oops....nevermind ;^ )

Actually, I now do mine just before it's flush with the nut, but I'm sure there's a fairly wide safe
range. This is mainly due to that super thin inlet tube we've both snapped off, it's just a little
easier to yank off the hose if need be.

Didn't mean to scare the OP.
--
Slacker - everyone back into your homes, especially Technician