SRAM Cassette

Tom said:

I asked my LBS to replace my chain and they said afterwards the bike
would not shift to the smallest cog, even at the maximum limit screw
setting on the derailleur. The solution was to remove a spacer from
the inside of the cassette (next to the hub) and place it between the
lockring and the smallest cog. Though the bike will now shift to the
small cog, it has made the cassette wobble a bit and looks a little
off. My cassette is a sram 12-25 on a Mavic Kyserium Elite wheel.

Is this the best solution or common? Thanks.

Sounds strange. Did it shift properly before they replaced your chain???
What happens if you unhook the wire so that there is no tension whatsoever
on the derailler. Will it still not shift to the small cog.
I have a shims on the very inside of my XT cassette to keep it from
wobbling. It's a 9 speed on an 8 speed hub. A little tricky to get the first
threads to grip when screwing the cassette locknut on, but there is just
enough. Never had any problems with the shifter not reaching all cogs.

--
Perre
I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.

Was the lockring was tight enough when you had the spacer behind the
cassette? Do you know if they checked the hanger alignment?

Tom said:

I asked my LBS to replace my chain and they said afterwards the bike
would not shift to the smallest cog, even at the maximum limit screw
setting on the derailleur. The solution was to remove a spacer from
the inside of the cassette (next to the hub) and place it between the
lockring and the smallest cog. Though the bike will now shift to the
small cog, it has made the cassette wobble a bit and looks a little
off. My cassette is a sram 12-25 on a Mavic Kyserium Elite wheel.

Is this the best solution or common? Thanks.

It's still not assembled correctly. Call the shop owner or
manager for an appointment. You need an apology and a redo.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew,

I'm not sure but are you joking or serious? Thanks.

Tom

A Muzi said:

Tom said:

I asked my LBS to replace my chain and they said afterwards the

bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would not shift to the smallest cog, even at the maximum limit

screw

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

setting on the derailleur. The solution was to remove a spacer

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the inside of the cassette (next to the hub) and place it between

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lockring and the smallest cog. Though the bike will now shift to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

small cog, it has made the cassette wobble a bit and looks a little
off. My cassette is a sram 12-25 on a Mavic Kyserium Elite wheel.

Is this the best solution or common? Thanks.

It's still not assembled correctly. Call the shop owner or
manager for an appointment. You need an apology and a redo.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I don't know if they checked the hanger alignment but everything worked
fine before. The lockring was tight and it shifted normally. Thanks.

I don't know if they checked the hanger alignment but everything worked
fine before. The lockring was tight and it shifted normally. Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tom said:

I asked my LBS to replace my chain and they said afterwards the

bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would not shift to the smallest cog, even at the maximum limit

screw

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

setting on the derailleur. The solution was to remove a spacer

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the inside of the cassette (next to the hub) and place it between

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lockring and the smallest cog. Though the bike will now shift to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

small cog, it has made the cassette wobble a bit and looks a little
off. My cassette is a sram 12-25 on a Mavic Kyserium Elite wheel.
Is this the best solution or common? Thanks.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

It's still not assembled correctly. Call the shop owner or
manager for an appointment. You need an apology and a redo.

Tom said:

I'm not sure but are you joking or serious?

Well, something isn't right.

There should not be a spacer between lockring and high gear.

You wrote "cassette wobble a bit" which isn't right either.

Since you wrote "looks a little off" I think you should have
someone intelligent, experienced but mostly responsible take
a look at it again with you.

If you call ahead you will probably get more and better
attention than last time. Write back please.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tom said:

I asked my LBS to replace my chain and they said afterwards the

bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would not shift to the smallest cog, even at the maximum limit

screw

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

setting on the derailleur. The solution was to remove a spacer

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the inside of the cassette (next to the hub) and place it between

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lockring and the smallest cog. Though the bike will now shift to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

small cog, it has made the cassette wobble a bit and looks a little
off. My cassette is a sram 12-25 on a Mavic Kyserium Elite wheel.
Is this the best solution or common? Thanks.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

It's still not assembled correctly. Call the shop owner or
manager for an appointment. You need an apology and a redo.

Tom said:

I'm not sure but are you joking or serious?

Well, something isn't right.

There should not be a spacer between lockring and high gear.

You wrote "cassette wobble a bit" which isn't right either.

Since you wrote "looks a little off" I think you should have
someone intelligent, experienced but mostly responsible take
a look at it again with you.

If you call ahead you will probably get more and better
attention than last time. Write back please.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Tom said:

I asked my LBS to replace my chain and they said afterwards the bike
would not shift to the smallest cog, even at the maximum limit screw
setting on the derailleur. The solution was to remove a spacer from
the inside of the cassette (next to the hub) and place it between the
lockring and the smallest cog. Though the bike will now shift to the
small cog, it has made the cassette wobble a bit and looks a little
off. My cassette is a sram 12-25 on a Mavic Kyserium Elite wheel.

Is this the best solution or common? Thanks.

Something is definitely wrong - there's no reason why replacing a chain
would cause this. Also, having a spacer there is not normal at all and
sounds sort of sketchy - I haven't thought about it but I definitely
wouldn't just do it on a customer's bike. If I was convinced that there
was actually an issue with the cog being out to far, which I probably
wouldn't be (see below), then it seems much safer to just put a little
spacer between the derailer and the derailer hanger.

Some things that could be going on that others haven't mentioned:
Derailer pivots aren't moving freely enough for the derailer to get to
the outermost position (somewhat common)
The rear derailer's initial tension was high enough to cause the
derailer to be unable to spring into its outermost position regardless
of how far out the limit screw was (common beginner's mistake)
The spacer wasn't supposed to be there in the first place, other
spacers on the cassette were out of place, or there was grit keeping
the cassette from being positioned right (all of these things could
have put the small cog further out than normal, but I don't think there
are any derailers that wouldn't have been able to hit the cog anyway).

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom

Quoted message said:

I asked my LBS to replace my chain and they said afterwards the bike
would not shift to the smallest cog, even at the maximum limit screw
setting on the derailleur. The solution was to remove a spacer from
the inside of the cassette (next to the hub) and place it between the
lockring and the smallest cog. Though the bike will now shift to the
small cog, it has made the cassette wobble a bit and looks a little
off. My cassette is a sram 12-25 on a Mavic Kyserium Elite wheel.

Is this the best solution or common? Thanks.

Tom,

Something doesn't sound right here. First of all, are you using the
right chain? On a good rear derailleur which I assume you have, there
should be 3 screw adjustments -- the B limit screw, High gear and Low
gear. With the derailleur cable and chain removed (assuming you have
Power Links), make an eye observation if the top derailleur pulley is
directly below the smallest cog. If it is not, turn the high gear
screw until the derailleur starts moving and the pulley aligns to the
smallest cog. If it doesn't, either the cog set was improperly setup
or you may have a bent derailleur cage. Make sure they didn't turn the
B limit screw trying to get the derailleur shift into the smallest cog.
It isn't for that.

David.

Tom' may have said:

I asked my LBS to replace my chain and they said afterwards the bike
would not shift to the smallest cog, even at the maximum limit screw
setting on the derailleur. The solution was to remove a spacer from
the inside of the cassette (next to the hub) and place it between the
lockring and the smallest cog. Though the bike will now shift to the
small cog, it has made the cassette wobble a bit and looks a little
off. My cassette is a sram 12-25 on a Mavic Kyserium Elite wheel.

Is this the best solution or common? Thanks.

The lockring has teeth on it. Putting a spacer between the lockring
and the small cog will allow the lockring to back off. This should
not be allowed to remain the way it is now.

I would hazard a guess that in the process of replacing the chain,
they did something that hasn't been properly corrected. There are
several possibilities. In any event, if the der was shifting to all
gears prior to the chain swap, there is no reason that it should be
unable to do so with the new chain. Something is wrong, and it's not
the cassette's position on the freehub...though that is now wrong as
well.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Tom' may have said:

Andrew,

I'm not sure but are you joking or serious? Thanks.

He's serious.

He's also correct.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

having a spacer there is not normal at all and
sounds sort of sketchy

I thought Mavics all have a spacer back there when used with Shimano
cassettes???

Quoted message said:

Tom said:

I asked my LBS to replace my chain and they said afterwards the bike
would not shift to the smallest cog, even at the maximum limit screw
setting on the derailleur. The solution was to remove a spacer from
the inside of the cassette (next to the hub) and place it between the
lockring and the smallest cog. Though the bike will now shift to the
small cog, it has made the cassette wobble a bit and looks a little
off. My cassette is a sram 12-25 on a Mavic Kyserium Elite wheel.

Is this the best solution or common? Thanks.

Something is definitely wrong - there's no reason why replacing a
chain would cause this. Also, having a spacer there is not normal at
all and sounds sort of sketchy - I haven't thought about it but I
definitely wouldn't just do it on a customer's bike. If I was
convinced that there was actually an issue with the cog being out to
far, which I probably wouldn't be (see below), then it seems much
safer to just put a little spacer between the derailer and the
derailer hanger.

Some things that could be going on that others haven't mentioned:
Derailer pivots aren't moving freely enough for the derailer to get to
the outermost position (somewhat common)
The rear derailer's initial tension was high enough to cause the
derailer to be unable to spring into its outermost position regardless
of how far out the limit screw was (common beginner's mistake)
The spacer wasn't supposed to be there in the first place, other
spacers on the cassette were out of place, or there was grit keeping
the cassette from being positioned right (all of these things could
have put the small cog further out than normal, but I don't think
there are any derailers that wouldn't have been able to hit the cog
anyway).

Would putting too long or too short a chain on keep the derailer from moving
freely between it's limits?

--
Perre
I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.

"Tom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I asked my LBS to replace my chain and they said afterwards the bike
would not shift to the smallest cog, even at the maximum limit screw
setting on the derailleur. The solution was to remove a spacer from
the inside of the cassette (next to the hub) and place it between the
lockring and the smallest cog. Though the bike will now shift to the
small cog, it has made the cassette wobble a bit and looks a little
off. My cassette is a sram 12-25 on a Mavic Kyserium Elite wheel.

Is this the best solution or common? Thanks.

That spacer is REQUIRED BY MAVIC on the hub side of their Ksyriums. As
others have said, your LBS has royally screwed up, and you should either
have them fix it, or if they are incompetent, have another LBS fix the
entire problem.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Well, I ended up taking it to another shop for a 2nd opinion. The
second shop also could not get the bike to shift to the small cog at
the max limit on the rear derailleur. He took the spacer off the small
cog and put it between the large cog and hub (as a Mavic hub should be
w/a shimano cassette) and put a spacer between the derailleur and
derailleur hanger. It seems work a lot better. The wobble is gone
anyway and it doesn't look "off" any longer.

I'm still perplexed as to why this occurred. Both shops had competent
techs that are experienced with high-end equipment. Thanks everyone
for their help and suggestions.

Tom said:

Well, I ended up taking it to another shop for a 2nd opinion. The
second shop also could not get the bike to shift to the small cog at
the max limit on the rear derailleur. He took the spacer off the
small cog and put it between the large cog and hub (as a Mavic hub
should be w/a shimano cassette) and put a spacer between the
derailleur and derailleur hanger. It seems work a lot better. The
wobble is gone anyway and it doesn't look "off" any longer.

I'm still perplexed as to why this occurred. Both shops had competent
techs that are experienced with high-end equipment. Thanks everyone
for their help and suggestions.

Did anybody check the drailler hanger for alignment? Sounds like it may have
been bent inwards a bit.
--
Perre
I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.

Quoted message said:

Well, I ended up taking it to another shop for a 2nd opinion. The
second shop also could not get the bike to shift to the small cog at
the max limit on the rear derailleur. He took the spacer off the small
cog and put it between the large cog and hub (as a Mavic hub should be
w/a shimano cassette) and put a spacer between the derailleur and
derailleur hanger. It seems work a lot better. The wobble is gone
anyway and it doesn't look "off" any longer.

I'm still perplexed as to why this occurred. Both shops had competent
techs that are experienced with high-end equipment. Thanks everyone
for their help and suggestions.

How old is the rear derailleur? It sounds like it's having difficulty
pulling the chain down onto the smallest cog, which can be caused by a
number of things, including-

- Old worn out derailleur with loose pivots and springs that aren't as
strong as they should be. Also a worn out upper pulley.

- As someone else pointed out, bad derailleur hanger alignment. But,
thinking back on it, could be a bent derailleur as well.

- (Some people are going to hate this one) Sometimes Sachs/SRAM chains don't
shift quite as well as Shimano. This mainly shows up on the front, but
sometimes I've seen cases where we replaced a Shimano chain with an SRAM and
it absolutely, positively brought out the worst in shifting issues.

- Problems in the cable/housing (too much friction). Easiest way to rule
this one out is to remove the cable from the derailleur and push the
derailleur from the smallest up to the second-smallest cog, and then let go
of the derailleur and see how readily it comes back down. If it works great
without the cable attached, could be too much friction someplace in the
cable & housing.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

The end of the story is I put a mavic spacer back on the hub side,
removed the spacer on the derailleur hanger, and adjusted it myself.
Works great now. Thanks for all the suggestions and help. Not sure
what the LBS issue was, but it works now.