Stable platform shocks

Pippin said:

On a full suspension bike is it best to have both the front and rear
shocks using a stable platform technology?

Could you clarify your question a bit, reminds me of an experience I
had. Are you referring to the difference between single pivot, four-bar
or VPP and how they are matched with different fork designs? Or are you
referring to the use of air/coil-over/oil bath forks and matching them
to rear shock designs? This is a pretty good question, because I have
always looked for a particular "feel" when it comes to shocks front or
rear. For example, I remember my very first full suspension rig my
parents bought me had a Rockshox single pivot w/ coil over in the rear
and a very entry level Rockshox fork with air and grommets (damn, I
forget model names, it was a while back circa 1994/95). I remember
noticing after the first few weeks, that the rear shock, I always ran a
bit stiff, had a very smooth response that I liked. However, the front
shock always felt "pop-pop-poppie" in comparison. When I took the bike
to a real bike shop one of the dudes said that the front fork really
didn't match what I had in the rear. So I upgraded to a fork that had
coils and oil instead of grommets and air. After that, both the front
end and the rear end felt comparable. Back then it wasn't much of an
investment, maybe $100. But it was well worth it.

Reason why I'm saying all this is that I never knew that certain
combinations of rear and front shocks make an ideal pairing depending on
the application (XC vs. FR vs. DH). I have always went by "feel." If
it didn't feel right then my local shop personnel would go over the
options and they would try to describe the feel I should expect. But I
am interested in the answer(s) to this question very much. Because it
will help come spring time when I plan to build a new rig. At least it
will save time and money when it comes to choosing shock options.

Peace.

--
David R Marlborough
DJ Mackelicious
http://walkingwounded.blogspot.com/

Pippin said:

On a full suspension bike is it best to have both the front and rear
shocks using a stable platform technology?

I think it would be but stable platform front suspension is rare. There's
the Fox FX with Terralogic "Brain" shock but I personally don't like the
"locked out" feeling of these kind of shocks. But I'm not an XC racer type
either. I have a Bullit with a 5th on the back and a Super-T on the front.
While the rear settles into its deadband and resists pedaling forces the
front end bobs up and down. It doesn't bother me terribly since I mostly
shuttle or lift the bike but when you block movement in one place the energy
is going to go to the other.

Mike

"Pippin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a full suspension bike is it best to have both the front and rear
shocks using a stable platform technology?

For a moment I thought I wrote this thread but did not remember, then I
thought someone was using my alias... then I figured it out. What is weird
is that I'm also going to stable platform on both front and back (Fox Terra
Logic 100 on front and a Fox RP3 on back).

To answer your question I hope so...

-p

Pippen said:

"Pippin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a full suspension bike is it best to have both the front and rear
shocks using a stable platform technology?

For a moment I thought I wrote this thread but did not remember, then I
thought someone was using my alias... then I figured it out. What is weird
is that I'm also going to stable platform on both front and back (Fox Terra
Logic 100 on front and a Fox RP3 on back).

To answer your question I hope so...

-p

So this is referring to Stable Platform Valves. I think I heard of them
in a mag article some place on Manitou's shocks. I am not really up on
this technology. Do they work to reduce pedal induced bobbing?

Peace.

--
David R Marlborough
DJ Mackelicious
http://walkingwounded.blogspot.com/

Quoted message said:

On a full suspension bike is it best to have both the front and rear
shocks using a stable platform technology?

If you believe the recent bike rags, yes. At least that's what i've
noticed over the last few months (especially with the 5" travel bikes).
however, people often accuse the bike magazines of pushing new
technology at us just to sustain the industry.

Lately I've been watching the front end of my bike bob during pedaling
and dive during breaking. I blame it on having read the aforementioned
articles. But in a few years I may go that route especially when said
technology is out to more manufacturers or has came down price.

"David" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pippen said:

"Pippin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a full suspension bike is it best to have both the front and rear
shocks using a stable platform technology?

For a moment I thought I wrote this thread but did not remember, then I
thought someone was using my alias... then I figured it out. What is
weird is that I'm also going to stable platform on both front and back
(Fox Terra Logic 100 on front and a Fox RP3 on back).

To answer your question I hope so...

-p

So this is referring to Stable Platform Valves. I think I heard of them
in a mag article some place on Manitou's shocks. I am not really up on
this technology. Do they work to reduce pedal induced bobbing?

Peace.

--
David R Marlborough
DJ Mackelicious
http://walkingwounded.blogspot.com/

Yes, my understanding and experience is that the Fork is locked out until
something (other than pedaling) trips the inertia valve in the fork. The
shock (RP3) has three settings on it depending on ride conditions... Fox
Racing has much more detail. I think the Cloud 9 uses some kind of inertia
like valve in it's rear shock (not sure). Not sure if this is still the case
but Cane Creek had some problems with some of their batches of Cloud 9's.

From your earlier post this is different that the VPP and some of the other
suspension designs that use the frame to reduce pedal induced bob.

Here are some sites that I use:
http://www.mtbcomprador.com/pa/english/ - not up to date with the latest
technologies but covers the basic plus the science behind the different
frame designs (technical).

http://www.titusti.com/suspension.html - very well done.

http://www.foxracingshox.com/website/TechnologyDesc.asp?Market=MBike&CategoryId=14&Id=2&count=1 -
Fox Fork Terra Logic.

I remember test riding the Specialized Epic when it came out. Actually
Specialized had Ned Overend in the both at Bear Creek. The problem with the
early (have not ridden later models) Epic was that the first bump you hit it
was a hardtail and then went to an active rear end. The inertia valve was
slow. The Fox forks I know have much improved this technology.

I'm not 100% up on all the latest technology, I'm sure there are others here
who can give more informed answers.

-p

Bob needed to die back in 2000 on my K2 Attack. So
I replaced the Noleen rear shock with a Cane Creek AD10. Bob has not
returned from the dead. Now I need to kill Judy up front so the GT LTS
doesn't Bob no more. And she won't dive also. Haven't met a RS yet that
I could even get along with.

Red_Ivan said:

Quoted message said:

On a full suspension bike is it best to have both the front and rear
shocks using a stable platform technology?

If you believe the recent bike rags, yes. At least that's what i've
noticed over the last few months (especially with the 5" travel bikes).
however, people often accuse the bike magazines of pushing new
technology at us just to sustain the industry.

Lately I've been watching the front end of my bike bob during pedaling
and dive during breaking. I blame it on having read the aforementioned
articles. But in a few years I may go that route especially when said
technology is out to more manufacturers or has came down price.

I hear you, dude! I actually did have a positive experience with a
technology upgrade feature in a bike "rag" (LOL). I have a Black fork
on my free ride rig and at first the front plow was a bit disappointing
during hard breaking. But there was an upgrade featured in a rag that
stated it solved the whole front plow issue. Low and behold I gave it a
shot, had my shop replace the necessary internal parts of the Black fork
which was a bit labor intensive if memory serves, and it DID reduce the
plow 'almost' completely. In any event I was very happy not to have the
feeling I was heading over the bars when I hit the breaks hard.

Obviously, this can be the exception to the rule as it is a common
practice among many other industries to push the latest technology to
drive sales. Makes sense this would take place in the MTB industry.

Peace.

--
David R Marlborough
DJ Mackelicious
http://walkingwounded.blogspot.com/