Serious kitchen remodelling

"Mark Shaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

We're pulling the trigger on basically a gutting-and-rebuilding
of our kitchen. New cabinets, new countertops, new appliances,
the whole thing. The only bit of the old kitchen to be left is
going to be the fridge, and that only because it's still got a
lot of life left in it (the wall oven, cooktop and dishwasher
date, I kid you not, from about 1972).

We've more or less settled on granite for the countertops and
some sort of middle-range cabinetry to be named later, but are
considering appliances first. We're leaning towards the GE
Monogram series of range and range hood - dual-fuel convection,
and lots of both BTUs and CFMs. High-end Kitchenaid dishwasher,
and forget the microwave for now.

That's about as far as we've gotten, though. Any advice?

(Do NOT NOT NOT suggest electric burners.)

Thanks!

--
Mark Shaw moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm

Check out Consumer Reports for all the appliances. Kitchenaid for a
dishwasher, even high end, is not a good idea. Even Kenmore rates higher
than Kitchenaid. Pick out your dream refrigerator now and build a space
for it so that you will have enough room when it gets time to replace the
old fridge. Be sure that the range hood has a good filter that is easily
reached for cleaning. Good choice to replace the wall oven with a range.
Janet

Mark Shaw said:

We're pulling the trigger on basically a gutting-and-rebuilding
of our kitchen. New cabinets, new countertops, new appliances,
the whole thing. The only bit of the old kitchen to be left is
going to be the fridge, and that only because it's still got a
lot of life left in it (the wall oven, cooktop and dishwasher
date, I kid you not, from about 1972).

We've more or less settled on granite for the countertops and
some sort of middle-range cabinetry to be named later, but are
considering appliances first. We're leaning towards the GE
Monogram series of range and range hood - dual-fuel convection,
and lots of both BTUs and CFMs. High-end Kitchenaid dishwasher,
and forget the microwave for now.

That's about as far as we've gotten, though. Any advice?

Design the top cabinets to go up to the ceiling. More room, and no
greasy cabinet tops to clean.
Consider stainless steel for the contertop. We redid our kitchen last
May (it was older than yours - 1960 - though the appliances were
newer) and used SS. I *love* it. And the mixture of SS and light wood
(beech) looks great.

Nathalie in Switzerland

Mark Shaw said:

We're pulling the trigger on basically a gutting-and-
rebuilding of our kitchen. New cabinets, new
countertops, new appliances, the whole thing. The only
bit of the old kitchen to be left is going to be the
fridge, and that only because it's still got a lot of
life left in it (the wall oven, cooktop and dishwasher
date, I kid you not, from about 1972).

We've more or less settled on granite for the countertops
and some sort of middle-range cabinetry to be named
later, but are considering appliances first. We're
leaning towards the GE Monogram series of range and range
hood - dual-fuel convection, and lots of both BTUs and
CFMs. High-end Kitchenaid dishwasher, and forget the
microwave for now.

That's about as far as we've gotten, though. Any advice?

(Do NOT NOT NOT suggest electric burners.)

Thanks!

We did the "wonder kitchen" thing after the house was flooded a few years
ago.
Here's a few of the things we did:

SINK: Three bowls. one deep on either side with a shallow on in the middle.
Disposer is in the middle (we used a 1HP commercial disposer). The switch
for the disposer is pneumatic so the button is right on the sink back, handy
when you have wet or messy hands. A high rise faucet with pull-out spray is
nice for rincing large pots etc.

I also added a small bar sink right next to the stove. Handy for filling and
draining large pots.

At each sink there is a separate tap for filtered water. The filters are
under the cabinets of course. On one of the units I came from the filtered
cold water to a "hot shot" heater that keeps 1/2 gallon of filtered water at
190 degrees. We found a nice tap for the filtered water that dispenses hot &
cold from the same tap. Instant coffee, soup, and tea are a snap to do with
this arrangement.

BUILT-INs: Don't forget the microwave, it still has uses, as does a toaster
oven / broiler / rotisserie. Mount them under cabinets to save counter
space. While you're at it consider other under cabinet items i.e. blender,
radio/CD/TV, knife block. Consider built-in under counter trash compactor,
ice maker, wine cooler. A small PC with access to your recipe database might
be "over the top" but could be handy if you're as geeky as I am. I didn't
do as much of this as I wish I had. Don't forget under cabinet flourescent
lights to brighten up the workspace.

SEPARATE FREEZER: We selected equal size (27CF) refrigerator and freezer.
Didn't put them side-by-side but probably should have.

RANGE HOOD: We topped a 30 inch dual-fuel range with a 36 inch Broan
Rangemaster hood. We selected the extra capacity 900 CFM blower which can
quickly deal with life's little "oopsies". It also has halogen lighting,
infra-red warming lights, and easy clean filters. We follwed the hood with a
matching stainless steel backsplash down to the stovetop. Looks great and is
very functional.

MAGNETS: are your friend. I added strip magnets along the bottom of the hood
on both sides and across the backsplash. Many of the frequently used
implements are held up on the magnets ready for a quick grab when needed.
Similarly magnetic clips keep other items on the backsplash. A pair of
Polder thermometers and large timer came with magnets on the back and are
stuck in convenient spots.

DEEP DRAWERS: Our kitchen designer suggested these and they are great. All
the pots/ pans, etc. go in them and they are easy to access. We also added a
lazy susan (rotating shelves) for the cornor cabinet. It eliminates those
deep - dark spaces that things get lost in.

DOUBLE DEPTH PANTRY: We added two floor-to-ceiling pantry cupboards. One is
double depth and has swing-out front shelves to the back us easy to reach. I
almost wish we had gone even deeper (we had the space) as we manage to fill
the unit all too often.
--
Pete Romfh, Telecom Geek & Amateur Gourmet.
promfh at hal dash pc dot org

Nathalie Chiva said:

Design the top cabinets to go up to the ceiling. More room, and no
greasy cabinet tops to clean.

Actually, we're doing just the opposite to gain more storage
space (atop the cabinetry) for seldom-used small appliances
and the like. The overall footprint of the kitchen is quite
small.

The situation today is that we have a false lower ceiling in
the main work area of the kitchen, that apparently serves no
purpose other than to hold a light soffit. That's coming out,
and we'll put can lights in the new, higher ceiling. And a
pot rack, maybe.

Quoted message said:

Consider stainless steel for the contertop. We redid our kitchen last
May (it was older than yours - 1960 - though the appliances were
newer) and used SS. I *love* it. And the mixture of SS and light wood
(beech) looks great.

Doesn't SS scratch easily?

--
Mark Shaw moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
========================================================================
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny....'" - Isaac Asimov

Janet Bostwick said:

Check out Consumer Reports for all the appliances.

Did that.

Quoted message said:

Kitchenaid for a
dishwasher, even high end, is not a good idea. Even Kenmore rates higher
than Kitchenaid.

Hmm, I thought KA rated near the top in the most recent
go-round. I'll have to recheck. We really do like the
looks of the S series.

Quoted message said:

Pick out your dream refrigerator now and build a space
for it so that you will have enough room when it gets time to replace the
old fridge.

Good idea; thanks.

Quoted message said:

Be sure that the range hood has a good filter that is easily
reached for cleaning.

Yeah, the other thing I'm looking for is a good, strong
fan. That's why I nixed the idea of a combination hood/
microwave. I think I'll just keep the existing microwave,
and move it into the garage. I only ever use the damned
thing to pop corn and warm coffee anyway. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Good choice to replace the wall oven with a range.

I was amazed at the price differential. And the space
savings is even more important.

--
Mark Shaw moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
========================================================================
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny....'" - Isaac Asimov

I'll be interested to see how you progress. We're also in the
planning stages. We're going to remove the wall between the formal
dining room and kitchen and make a large eat-in kitchen.

We're also planning to go with high-end appliances, granite, etc.

Do you have pictures to share?

"Pete Romfh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Shaw said:

We're pulling the trigger on basically a gutting-and-
rebuilding of our kitchen. New cabinets, new
countertops, new appliances, the whole thing. The only
bit of the old kitchen to be left is going to be the
fridge, and that only because it's still got a lot of
life left in it (the wall oven, cooktop and dishwasher
date, I kid you not, from about 1972).

We've more or less settled on granite for the countertops
and some sort of middle-range cabinetry to be named
later, but are considering appliances first. We're
leaning towards the GE Monogram series of range and range
hood - dual-fuel convection, and lots of both BTUs and
CFMs. High-end Kitchenaid dishwasher, and forget the
microwave for now.

That's about as far as we've gotten, though. Any advice?

(Do NOT NOT NOT suggest electric burners.)

Thanks!

We did the "wonder kitchen" thing after the house was flooded a few years
ago.
Here's a few of the things we did:

SINK: Three bowls. one deep on either side with a shallow on in the
middle.
Disposer is in the middle (we used a 1HP commercial disposer). The switch
for the disposer is pneumatic so the button is right on the sink back,
handy
when you have wet or messy hands. A high rise faucet with pull-out spray
is
nice for rincing large pots etc.

snip
Right! I forgot to mention the high rise faucet--I don't care for the
pull-out spray, myself, but I love my new high faucet that allows me to run
water into tall pots.

snip

Quoted message said:

DOUBLE DEPTH PANTRY: We added two floor-to-ceiling pantry cupboards. One
is
double depth and has swing-out front shelves to the back us easy to reach.
I
almost wish we had gone even deeper (we had the space) as we manage to
fill
the unit all too often.

Yes! Yes! Yes! I've been crawling around my kitchen(hands and knees and
ladders) this winter re-arranging, cleaning etc. I absolutely agreee about
the floor to ceiling pantry cupboards. I can't do it in my current kitchen
setup because of the darned wall oven, but if we were doing a remodel again,
I'd do it in a heartbeat. There is too much wasted cupboard space in a
kitchen just because the countertop interrupts your ability to really use
anything above the bottom, possibly second from the bottom shelf. Anything
else, and you have to get a ladder or step stool. Even ladder access to the
higher cupboards is hampered by countertops.
Janet

"Mark Shaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nathalie Chiva said:

Design the top cabinets to go up to the ceiling. More room, and no
greasy cabinet tops to clean.

Actually, we're doing just the opposite to gain more storage
space (atop the cabinetry) for seldom-used small appliances
and the like. The overall footprint of the kitchen is quite
small.

Nah, take the cabs to the ceiling and include a small appliance garage in
them, at least a shelf, eliminating the stretch and grease buildup. Over
the cab top catches a lot of dirt, even in a clean kitchen.

Janet Bostwick said:

Good choice to replace the wall oven with a range.

That's a suggestion I can't endorse. I like having double
wall ovens and a separate cooktop. I also like having my
pot & bowl storage directly underneath the cooktop.

sf

zuuum said:

Nah, take the cabs to the ceiling and include a small appliance garage in
them, at least a shelf, eliminating the stretch and grease buildup. Over
the cab top catches a lot of dirt, even in a clean kitchen.

Which can be easily taken care of by what I call a soffit,
but I guess is really a facia, to the cealing. Personally,
I don't like that cabinet to the ceiling look. If I ever
remodel my kitchen, I'll keep the soffit and build indirect
into lighting it.

sf

Mark Shaw said:

Nathalie Chiva said:

Design the top cabinets to go up to the ceiling. More room, and no
greasy cabinet tops to clean.

Actually, we're doing just the opposite to gain more storage
space (atop the cabinetry) for seldom-used small appliances
and the like. The overall footprint of the kitchen is quite
small.

Too bad - then it's the seldom-used appliances which will gather
greasy dust. I do the same - I store that kind of thing high-up, but
in the top upper cabinets (I have actually two separate lines of upper
cabinets, if you see what I mean). It's a great scheme.

Quoted message said:

Doesn't SS scratch easily?

Never use the shiny kind - you must use what we call "brushed" SS -
it's actually SS with inbuilt millions of microscratches, looks lovely
and doesn't show scratches, obviously.

Nathalie in Switzerland

On Wed 26 Jan 2005 05:31:22a, Nathalie Chiva wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Mark Shaw said:

Nathalie Chiva said:

Design the top cabinets to go up to the ceiling. More room, and no
greasy cabinet tops to clean.

Actually, we're doing just the opposite to gain more storage
space (atop the cabinetry) for seldom-used small appliances
and the like. The overall footprint of the kitchen is quite small.

Too bad - then it's the seldom-used appliances which will gather
greasy dust. I do the same - I store that kind of thing high-up, but
in the top upper cabinets (I have actually two separate lines of upper
cabinets, if you see what I mean). It's a great scheme.

Quoted message said:

Doesn't SS scratch easily?

Never use the shiny kind - you must use what we call "brushed" SS -
it's actually SS with inbuilt millions of microscratches, looks lovely
and doesn't show scratches, obviously.

Nathalie in Switzerland

LOL! Some like to call it a "patina". Personally, I think it looks like
[censored] most of the time, but I know a lot of people love it. Even in
apartments I've lived in, I've had the SS sink removed and replaced with
porcelainized cast iron.

OTOH, SS is by far the most resistant to actual damage, although it can
show serious dings.

Just my 2¢

Wayne

sf wrote:

Which can be easily taken care of by what I call a soffit,
but I guess is really a facia, to the cealing. Personally,
I don't like that cabinet to the ceiling look. If I ever
remodel my kitchen, I'll keep the soffit and build indirect
into lighting it.

************
Hmm... OK. Most of the houses that I see without cabinets
to the ceiling have bulkheads above them. Like everything,
there are trade-offs either way you go. I would definitely like
to have cabinets all the way to the ceiling. It is hard to access
the top then, but it is a good place for stuff that is rarely used.
Michael

sumwon sed:

Quoted message said:

Doesn't SS scratch easily?

Never use the shiny kind - you must use what we call "brushed" SS -
it's actually SS with inbuilt millions of microscratches, looks lovely
and doesn't show scratches, obviously.
Nathalie in Switzerland

With brushed SS the brush marks are all in the same direction... you
mean to say that folks where you live will be certain to make all their
scratches in the same precise direction and exactly to the same depth
and width? Yoose gots to be kidding... of course brushed SS shows
scratches, and those scratches look three times as serious when made
accross the grain... and brushed SS countertops begin to look
especially old and worn as the brush marks wear away and shiny spots
appear in the areas that get the most use. Brushed metal is best
reserved for vertical and non-work surfaces like the fridge, stove, and
dishwasher, not counter tops. My kitchen sink is SS, a very expensive
Elkay (the Rolls Royce of SS sinks)... and no matter how careful I am
its brushed finish shows scratches and wear marks... the only way to
keep it pristine is to not ever use it.

Sheldon

Sheldon wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

sumwon sed:

Quoted message said:

Doesn't SS scratch easily?

Never use the shiny kind - you must use what we call "brushed" SS -
it's actually SS with inbuilt millions of microscratches, looks lovely
and doesn't show scratches, obviously.
Nathalie in Switzerland

With brushed SS the brush marks are all in the same direction... you
mean to say that folks where you live will be certain to make all their
scratches in the same precise direction and exactly to the same depth
and width? Yoose gots to be kidding... of course brushed SS shows
scratches, and those scratches look three times as serious when made
accross the grain... and brushed SS countertops begin to look
especially old and worn as the brush marks wear away and shiny spots
appear in the areas that get the most use. Brushed metal is best
reserved for vertical and non-work surfaces like the fridge, stove, and
dishwasher, not counter tops. My kitchen sink is SS, a very expensive
Elkay (the Rolls Royce of SS sinks)... and no matter how careful I am
its brushed finish shows scratches and wear marks... the only way to
keep it pristine is to not ever use it.

after working in a commercial kitchen, im sold on stainless counters. i
don't care about how they look; they are expremely functional and easy to
clean.

--
saerah

TANSTAAFL

CrzyBitch (3:25:06 AM): I'm a secret agent, and a princess

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Curly Sue said:

Range hood- get one with filters that can be put in the dishwasher.
Mine, which I haven't installed yet, also has a teflon plate behind
the filters for easy cleaning.

Would you cough up a brand name? I'm on the verge of not paying down the
mortgage and getting a better kitchen instead just to get rid of that
disgusting hunk of metal.
blacksalt

Saerah said:

Sheldon wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

sumwon sed:

Quoted message said:

Doesn't SS scratch easily?

Never use the shiny kind - you must use what we call "brushed" SS -
it's actually SS with inbuilt millions of microscratches, looks lovely
and doesn't show scratches, obviously.
Nathalie in Switzerland

With brushed SS the brush marks are all in the same direction... you
mean to say that folks where you live will be certain to make all their
scratches in the same precise direction and exactly to the same depth
and width? Yoose gots to be kidding... of course brushed SS shows
scratches, and those scratches look three times as serious when made
accross the grain... and brushed SS countertops begin to look
especially old and worn as the brush marks wear away and shiny spots
appear in the areas that get the most use. Brushed metal is best
reserved for vertical and non-work surfaces like the fridge, stove, and
dishwasher, not counter tops. My kitchen sink is SS, a very expensive
Elkay (the Rolls Royce of SS sinks)... and no matter how careful I am
its brushed finish shows scratches and wear marks... the only way to
keep it pristine is to not ever use it.

after working in a commercial kitchen, im sold on stainless counters. i
don't care about how they look; they are expremely functional and easy to
clean.

How is the function of stainless steel extremely different from other
surfaces? They're all horizontal, something spills, you wipe it. My
guess to answer that would be that you can put a hot pan directly on
SS and you don't have to seal it or other fuss like the stone ones.
But I've never worked on SS so perhaps you had some other features in
mind?

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Mark Shaw said:

We're pulling the trigger on basically a gutting-and-rebuilding
of our kitchen. New cabinets, new countertops, new appliances,
the whole thing. The only bit of the old kitchen to be left is
going to be the fridge, and that only because it's still got a
lot of life left in it (the wall oven, cooktop and dishwasher
date, I kid you not, from about 1972).

<snip>

Quoted message said:

That's about as far as we've gotten, though. Any advice?

When and if you replace your refrigerator with SS, you can kiss your
refrigerator magnets goodbye. SS appliances don't hold magnets.
Things the sales reps don't tell you...

Range hood- get one with filters that can be put in the dishwasher.
Mine, which I haven't installed yet, also has a teflon plate behind
the filters for easy cleaning.

Range hood noise is measured in "sones." Look for a quiet range hood
if your place is small. Air flow is measured in cfm, look for faster.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!