Shorter top tube?

tuben said:

I seem to have long legs in relation to upper body,
and have some difficulty in getting a comfortable
position . . .

[snip]

Dear Göran,

Be careful what you wish for:

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/wsb/media/286143/graphic_pub.jpg

Carl Fogel

I believe you'd like the standard "women-specific" geometry. This is a
quickly-growing flavor of road geometry, with many vendors. I can't
recall a model name off-hand, but this might be something you could
search.
Good luck.
-- Gary.

"tuben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average,

I think that's the key to woman-specific frames: short reach relative to size.
I think those are typically smaller sizes though.

Quoted message said:

or do I have to go custom made?

Could be. What crank length do you use? Do you think longer ones would
help?

David

tuben said:

I seem to have long legs in relation to upper body,
and have some difficulty in getting a comfortable
position on my road bike which is a Bianchi.
The saddle is high and the handlebar stem is short,
but I still feel the handelbar is to far away.
I would like to have it maybe 5cm higher and 3-4cm
back.
Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average, or do I have to go custom made?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Regards
göran

You should really choose a frame based on top tube length rather than seat
tube length. But in your case a smaller frame would make it harder to get
the bars high enough. There is some variation in top tube length for a
given "frame size" but probably not 3-4 cm.

Your best bet may be to get a new shorter stem and a stem height extender.
Do you have a threadless headset?

Sounds like you're looking for a Rivendell type fit.

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/rr_comfposition.html

Art Harris

David said:

"tuben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average,

I think that's the key to woman-specific frames: short reach relative to size.
I think those are typically smaller sizes though.

Well maybe I could try that route as long as the frame is not
pink in colour or called "missy" or some such....
Btw, I'm 180cm in length.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or do I have to go custom made?

Could be. What crank length do you use? Do you think longer ones would
help?

I use 172.5 and would rather not change to something longer due
to a knee problem history.

Thanks
göran

tuben said:

I seem to have long legs in relation to upper body,
and have some difficulty in getting a comfortable
position on my road bike which is a Bianchi.
The saddle is high and the handlebar stem is short,
but I still feel the handelbar is to far away.
I would like to have it maybe 5cm higher and 3-4cm
back.
Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average, or do I have to go custom made?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Regards
göran

I have two suggestions:

1) Look for an 80's Japanese or other frame at a garage sale. Most of
these have much shorter top tubes than modern bikes. Most of these
frames are decent and make a nice bike if you don't mind putting new
components on them and possibly painting.

2) Look at Thorn out of the UK (www.sjscycles.com), that's what I did.
They offer many of the 'stock' frames in different top tube lengths. I
have the Cyclosportif. http://tinyurl.com/4stwc

Most of their frames are offered in a strange fashion of alternating
long and short top tubes with a progression of seat tubes. For example
a 53 will have a short TT, and 54.5 a long TT, and a 56 a short TT. The
Cyclosprtif is one of the few that are available in short and long TT in
any seat tube size. Its an awesome bike, hand made and beautiful, but
the current exchange rate makes them quite pricey.

OK 3 suggestions -like another poster mentioned - Rivendells tend to put
you in a fairly upright position by using an upward sloping TT combined
with a head-tube extension and a long-quill stem.

Kyle

Harris said:

tuben said:

I seem to have long legs in relation to upper body,
and have some difficulty in getting a comfortable
position on my road bike which is a Bianchi.
The saddle is high and the handlebar stem is short,
but I still feel the handelbar is to far away.
I would like to have it maybe 5cm higher and 3-4cm
back.
Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average, or do I have to go custom made?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Regards
göran

You should really choose a frame based on top tube length rather than seat
tube length. But in your case a smaller frame would make it harder to get
the bars high enough. There is some variation in top tube length for a
given "frame size" but probably not 3-4 cm.

Your best bet may be to get a new shorter stem and a stem height extender.
Do you have a threadless headset?

Sounds like you're looking for a Rivendell type fit.

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/rr_comfposition.html

Art Harris

Thanks for your reply.
The Rivendell type fit adresses the handlebar height
aspect which is part of my problem.
It seems to be more readily solved using the threaded
"quill stem" system, as the bar is more easy to rise
and also moves back a bit as you do so.
I use threadless headset so I'd have to
change the stem to something very different in angle.
I allready have the spacer rings beneath the stem.
Are the adjustable stems a good alternative?
Are there any reliable, not too heavy designs out there
that could work?

göran

Kyle.B.H. said:

tuben said:

I seem to have long legs in relation to upper body,
and have some difficulty in getting a comfortable
position on my road bike which is a Bianchi.
The saddle is high and the handlebar stem is short,
but I still feel the handelbar is to far away.
I would like to have it maybe 5cm higher and 3-4cm
back.
Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average, or do I have to go custom made?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Regards
göran

I have two suggestions:

1) Look for an 80's Japanese or other frame at a garage sale. Most of
these have much shorter top tubes than modern bikes. Most of these
frames are decent and make a nice bike if you don't mind putting new
components on them and possibly painting.

2) Look at Thorn out of the UK (www.sjscycles.com), that's what I did.
They offer many of the 'stock' frames in different top tube lengths. I
have the Cyclosportif. http://tinyurl.com/4stwc

Very nice bike, I like the paintwork!
However my vanity prompts me to look for an aluminum frame if I
decide to buy a new frame. Maybe I should work with my attitude
since I do realize that it is the fit and comfort that allows me
to get the most milage in, not the lightest bike with the most
expensive components.
I do have plans to race with the bike but in the age group "40+" :-)

Quoted message said:

Most of their frames are offered in a strange fashion of alternating
long and short top tubes with a progression of seat tubes. For example
a 53 will have a short TT, and 54.5 a long TT, and a 56 a short TT. The
Cyclosprtif is one of the few that are available in short and long TT in
any seat tube size. Its an awesome bike, hand made and beautiful, but
the current exchange rate makes them quite pricey.

That is one impressive list of frame dimensions!

/göran

tuben said:

Harris said:

tuben said:

I seem to have long legs in relation to upper body,
and have some difficulty in getting a comfortable
position on my road bike which is a Bianchi.
The saddle is high and the handlebar stem is short,
but I still feel the handelbar is to far away.
I would like to have it maybe 5cm higher and 3-4cm
back.
Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average, or do I have to go custom made?
Any advice would be appreciated.

You should really choose a frame based on top tube length rather than
seat tube length. But in your case a smaller frame would make it
harder to get the bars high enough. There is some variation in top
tube length for a given "frame size" but probably not 3-4 cm.
Your best bet may be to get a new shorter stem and a stem height
extender. Do you have a threadless headset?

Sounds like you're looking for a Rivendell type fit.

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/rr_comfposition.html

Art Harris

Thanks for your reply.
The Rivendell type fit adresses the handlebar height
aspect which is part of my problem.
It seems to be more readily solved using the threaded
"quill stem" system, as the bar is more easy to rise
and also moves back a bit as you do so.
I use threadless headset so I'd have to
change the stem to something very different in angle.
I allready have the spacer rings beneath the stem.
Are the adjustable stems a good alternative?
Are there any reliable, not too heavy designs out there
that could work?

Practical/reliable and light are often mutually exclusive when it comes
to bike components and frames. I don't trust anything where the failure
of a single bolt could have drastic consequences, which you may find to
be the case in many adjustable stems (and all 2-bolt faceplace stems for
that matter). Good luck!

tuben said:

I seem to have long legs in relation to upper body,
and have some difficulty in getting a comfortable
position on my road bike which is a Bianchi.
The saddle is high and the handlebar stem is short,
but I still feel the handelbar is to far away.
I would like to have it maybe 5cm higher and 3-4cm
back.
Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average,

Sure -- Bianchis!

Quoted message said:

or do I have to go custom made?

Seriously, no. If you can't get a good fit from a modern Bianchi, get an older
racing frame. Top tubes have become longer over the years. These days it's
common for top tubes and seat tubes to be about equal. Go back 10 years, and
you're likely to find top tubes 3cm shorter than seat tubes. In the 70s, a 4cm
difference was not uncommon.

Matt O.

"tuben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I seem to have long legs in relation to upper body,
and have some difficulty in getting a comfortable
position on my road bike which is a Bianchi.
The saddle is high and the handlebar stem is short,
but I still feel the handelbar is to far away.
I would like to have it maybe 5cm higher and 3-4cm
back.
Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average, or do I have to go custom made?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Regards
göran

Here is a link to Strawberry's custom frame design calculator that you might
find helpful. I stumbled across it a few months ago and saved the link for
future reference.
http://www.strawberrybicycle.com/frames-custom.php
It might help you determine how long the top tube and seat tube should be
for your unusual proportions.

And here is Zinn's calculator.
http://www.zinncycles.com/FitIntro.aspx
Have fun,
Bill Brannon

tuben said:

I seem to have long legs in relation to upper body,
and have some difficulty in getting a comfortable
position on my road bike which is a Bianchi.
The saddle is high and the handlebar stem is short,
but I still feel the handelbar is to far away.
I would like to have it maybe 5cm higher and 3-4cm
back.
Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average, or do I have to go custom made?
Any advice would be appreciated.

What you need is classic italian steel frame geometry. There are still some
nice bikes produced like that.
For the same top tube length they are usually 3-4 cm higher than new AL bikes.
One example could be DeRosa Neo Primato (other DeRosas are "modern" with long
top tube).
If you can't get comfortable fit on that kind of geometry than you ar an
candidate for custom made frame 🙂)

Ante Smokrovic
========================
[email hidden]
[email hidden]
ICQ: 5924617

"tuben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I use 172.5 and would rather not change to something longer due

to a knee problem history.

Has crank length had an effect onm your knees? I have knee trouble too, but
it rarely troubles me when I ride. Not sure how crank length would affect it.

I an opposite build issue. Legs on the shorter side for my height. I typically need a
seat post with zero setback, and the seat pulled very nearly all the way forward. I've
considered going to a shorter (than my current 175mm crank). 170 (which I've ridden
long ago) or shorter.

If I got a custom frame built I would probably get a steeper seat tube.

David

You might want to look at the cannondale sport road models or the trek
pilots so you can establish whether that style suits you. If you find a
shop who'll size you on one of those then you have a price you can compare
to custom.

"tuben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I seem to have long legs in relation to upper body,
and have some difficulty in getting a comfortable
position on my road bike which is a Bianchi.
The saddle is high and the handlebar stem is short,
but I still feel the handelbar is to far away.
I would like to have it maybe 5cm higher and 3-4cm
back.
Is there any makes of road frames which have shorter
top tubes than average, or do I have to go custom made?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Regards
göran

Goran:

I am not sure of how much money you are willing to spend for a new
frame. However, you can always go custom. You can get a custom ti frame
from mark hickey at around $900. He is a regular here. Also, you can
get a custom ti frame from www.aerolite.ca for a little less. finally,
you can get the frame directly from the chinese manufacturer for a lot
less, if you know what you want.

Andres

Goran:

I am not sure of how much money you are willing to spend for a new
frame. However, you can always go custom. You can get a custom ti frame
from mark hickey at around $900. He is a regular here. Also, you can
get a custom ti frame from www.aerolite.ca for a little less. finally,
you can get the frame directly from the chinese manufacturer for a lot
less, if you know what you want.

Andres

tuben said:

The Rivendell type fit adresses the handlebar height
aspect which is part of my problem.
It seems to be more readily solved using the threaded
"quill stem" system, as the bar is more easy to rise
and also moves back a bit as you do so.
I use threadless headset so I'd have to
change the stem to something very different in angle.
I allready have the spacer rings beneath the stem.

Sounds like your steer tube was cut too short. You could buy a new fork
with an uncut steer tube, or just get a stem extender. Extenders are
available for both threaded and threadless headsets. Sheldon Brown has
a good article on this whole subject at:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html

Art Harris

David said:

"tuben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I use 172.5 and would rather not change to something longer due

to a knee problem history.

Has crank length had an effect onm your knees? I have knee trouble too, but
it rarely troubles me when I ride. Not sure how crank length would affect it.

One of the advices I got when I asked about knee problems in
rec.bicycles.misc was that I should try shorter cranks which
would result in less bending of the legs double the amount of
crank difference. I thought it made sense. (yes I consulted a
doctor too)

Quoted message said:

I an opposite build issue. Legs on the shorter side for my height. I typically need a
seat post with zero setback, and the seat pulled very nearly all the way forward. I've
considered going to a shorter (than my current 175mm crank). 170 (which I've ridden
long ago) or shorter.

If I got a custom frame built I would probably get a steeper seat tube.

David

Matt O'Toole said:

Seriously, no. If you can't get a good fit from a modern Bianchi, get an older
racing frame. Top tubes have become longer over the years. These days it's
common for top tubes and seat tubes to be about equal. Go back 10 years, and
you're likely to find top tubes 3cm shorter than seat tubes. In the 70s, a 4cm
difference was not uncommon.

I don't think so. I, for one, have a stock-size 1969 vintage Italian
racing bike with top-tube length precisely the same as seat-tube length.
Both are 56cm c-to-c, and I just measured it to be sure. It's a Frejus,
which was a pretty standard Italian frame.

There are many myths about everything being better from the old days
(though for most folks I wonder why it would be that shorter top tubes
would be better), but they are not always true.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
_`\(,_ |
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