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Accident Reconstruction

Started by Jay Beattie · · Last activity · 19 posts · 523 views

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Cycling Equipment
Published
4 January 2005
Last activity
17 January 2005
Original author
Jay Beattie
Posts
19
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  1. In my 40 or so years of road cycling, I have gone OTB only a
    handful of times -- usually after hitting the side of a turning
    car. In the last three weeks, however, I have don it twice.
    First, after hitting a pot hole while riding out of the saddle (I
    think; it happened fast and in the dark). Second, after a bunny
    hop on to a curb -- a move I do every day on my way to/from work.
    The odd part is that both times I did a face plant, and the
    second time I had to get my face sewn up (remember, always ask
    for the plastic surgeon). In my experience, the usual OTB mode
    is the "Superman" (arms out) or the head up, shoulder plant and
    roll. I could not figure out why I landed on my face. Both
    times, however, I noticed that my bars had twisted a lot -- and
    the stem was one of the few changed pieces on this bike. It is a
    cheap-o two bolt threadless (probably 26.0) with an old set of
    Cinelli 26.4 bars. I use reasonable torque, but did not measure
    it with a torque wrench during installation. I thought the bars
    twisted due to the impact of the fall. I really think now that
    the reason I crashed on the hop and fell in a pot hole is because
    the bars slipped before the fall due to a relatively minor impact
    (landing a hop, hitting a pothole), and being out of the saddle
    with my weight forward, this caused me to dive into the pavement.
    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else I
    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

  2. Hmm. I think the bars are twisting because of the crash. My
    experience:

    On November 1st, I crashed badly, OTB, and broke my jaw (just recently
    unwired). When I examined my bike (long) after the crash, I discovered
    that the stem had twisted in the steerer. My reconstruction of that
    lead to the bruise on one knee--I must have hit the bars as I went
    flying by. Since the wheel and fork were constrained by the road
    repair slot that initiated the accident (10" deep or so) the force of
    my knee shifted the stem significantly w/respect to the steerer.

    Ouch.

    In any event, you wrote...

    Quoted message said:

    (remember, always ask for the plastic surgeon).

    So what was wrong with the old bakelite one?

    I can laugh now, but six weeks sipping Carnation Instant Breakfast was
    tolerable only because of how bad the accident COULD have been.

    So...it's got to be past sins.

    Jay Beattie said:

    In my 40 or so years of road cycling, I have gone OTB only a
    handful of times -- usually after hitting the side of a turning
    car. In the last three weeks, however, I have don it twice.
    First, after hitting a pot hole while riding out of the saddle (I
    think; it happened fast and in the dark). Second, after a bunny
    hop on to a curb -- a move I do every day on my way to/from work.
    The odd part is that both times I did a face plant, and the
    second time I had to get my face sewn up (remember, always ask
    for the plastic surgeon). In my experience, the usual OTB mode
    is the "Superman" (arms out) or the head up, shoulder plant and
    roll. I could not figure out why I landed on my face. Both
    times, however, I noticed that my bars had twisted a lot -- and
    the stem was one of the few changed pieces on this bike. It is a
    cheap-o two bolt threadless (probably 26.0) with an old set of
    Cinelli 26.4 bars. I use reasonable torque, but did not measure
    it with a torque wrench during installation. I thought the bars
    twisted due to the impact of the fall. I really think now that
    the reason I crashed on the hop and fell in a pot hole is because
    the bars slipped before the fall due to a relatively minor impact
    (landing a hop, hitting a pothole), and being out of the saddle
    with my weight forward, this caused me to dive into the pavement.
    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else I
    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

  3. Jay Beattie said:

    In my 40 or so years of road cycling, I have gone OTB only a
    handful of times -- usually after hitting the side of a turning
    car. In the last three weeks, however, I have don it twice.

    Jay,

    Sorry about the facial thrashing. I have exactly 2 OTBs on my riding
    record, both in my days of youth and pre-helmet times. The first OTB
    was during a race with a buddy. We were flying downhill at full tilt on
    our 10 speeds. I think I was winning (That's my story anyway). Spoke
    reflectors had just recently become mandatory and were not a well
    thought out design then. The front reflector broke loose during this
    race, flipped sideways and jammed in the front forks. Bike flips, rider
    launches. It began in the classic Superman pose, but thankfully before
    hitting the ground I did a half roll (through no talent of my own. It
    just happened) and landed on my back. I slid this way for an impressive
    distance and got up uninjured, smiling and cocky.

    OTB #2. Again racing a buddy (you'd think I would learn). We were
    headed down a bike path at top speed. Ahead was a bridge over a small
    creek. The path narrowed and took an "S" turn at this point, and was
    paralleled on both sides with chain link fencing. I was in the lead (no
    doubt this time). My speed was too high to negotiate the S turn. I
    leaned as far as I dared, but no way. My left pedal caught in the chain
    link fence. Bike stops, rider launches. I began in the classic superman
    pose, then lost air speed and came in head first. I landed squarely on
    the top of my noggin and slid in that position (I wish I had pics).
    When all forward momentum ceased I toppled over onto my back. I felt
    OK. My buddy pedaled up and I gave him my usual cocky grin to show I
    had survived (while pulling clumps of loose hair from the top of my
    head). He didn't smile back. Unfortunately, I had a tootsie-roll sucker
    in my mouth at the time of impact. When I landed on my head, my jaw
    slammed shut and something had to give. My tooth or the stick. The
    stick was fine, but my front-top permanent tooth was snapped clean in
    half. The ride home was a true pain trying to breathe only through my
    nose. The tooth has long since been replaced, the dental bills paid,
    and I'm as pretty as ever.

    TR (Not the face, please not the face).

  4. Jay Beattie said:

    In my 40 or so years of road cycling, I have gone OTB only a
    handful of times -- usually after hitting the side of a turning
    car. In the last three weeks, however, I have don it twice.
    First, after hitting a pot hole while riding out of the saddle (I
    think; it happened fast and in the dark). Second, after a bunny
    hop on to a curb -- a move I do every day on my way to/from work.
    The odd part is that both times I did a face plant, and the
    second time I had to get my face sewn up (remember, always ask
    for the plastic surgeon). In my experience, the usual OTB mode
    is the "Superman" (arms out) or the head up, shoulder plant and
    roll. I could not figure out why I landed on my face. Both
    times, however, I noticed that my bars had twisted a lot -- and
    the stem was one of the few changed pieces on this bike. It is a
    cheap-o two bolt threadless (probably 26.0) with an old set of
    Cinelli 26.4 bars. I use reasonable torque, but did not measure
    it with a torque wrench during installation. I thought the bars
    twisted due to the impact of the fall. I really think now that
    the reason I crashed on the hop and fell in a pot hole is because
    the bars slipped before the fall due to a relatively minor impact
    (landing a hop, hitting a pothole), and being out of the saddle
    with my weight forward, this caused me to dive into the pavement.
    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else I
    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

    Dear Jay,

    Your handlebars might have slipped before the crash, but if
    they were still hard to twist afterward, then they probably
    didn't slip under ordinary riding--they were wrenched by the
    crash.

    A) The front hit something hard enough that it twisted the
    bars against the resistance of your arms with much of your
    weight on them, much like an impact wrench banging a nut
    off. Such a jolt would be so brief, sudden, and unexpected
    that you might not notice it in the general WHOMP! of the
    crash.

    B) In the ensuing tangle of bike and rider landing with all
    the grace of a sack of cement tumbling off the back of a
    truck, something else banged the bars hard enough against
    enough resistance to twist them.

    Even a light bicycle whose rider has parted company from it
    can do this when it topples over and bangs into the pavement
    at 15 to 25 mph. (You can test this by dropping a bicycle
    head-first from a second or third story window. All that has
    to happen is for the 20-pound mass doing 15 to 25 mph to
    land so that the long arm of one handlebar has leverage
    against the long lever of the wheel-spoke-fork.

    All that has to be overcome is the raw friction of whatever
    dingus inside the frame/stem can provide when tightened with
    a little-bitty wrench. Basically, it's the principle of a
    cork in a wine bottle, which works for something as light as
    a bicycle.

    If you really want the front wheel to stay lined up with the
    handlebars, you have to use a motorcycle-style triple-clamp.
    Massive chunks of metal attach above and below the front of
    the frame and swing from side to side, with a fork leg
    running up through each brace/clamp. The handlebars clamp
    onto the top brace. Here's a view as the rider looks down at
    his handlebars:

    left right
    fork fork
    OxxxxxxxO
    -------\xxxxx/------- handlebar clamped across
    \[censored]/ top of upper triple clamp
    \x/
    O pivot (where a bike steerer tube would be)
    |
    |
    |
    frame
    |
    |
    seat

    Motorycle-style bars on triple-clamps don't twist in
    relation to the wheel like bicycle handlebars. Instead,
    things bend or break.

    Glad your crashes weren't any worse.

    Carl Fogel

  5. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
    says...

    Quoted message said:

    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else I
    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.


    At our age Jay, it may be the combination effect. Ouch.

  6. Jay Beattie said:

    Both times, however, I noticed that my bars had twisted a lot -- and
    the stem was one of the few changed pieces on this bike. It is a
    cheap-o two bolt threadless (probably 26.0) with an old set of
    Cinelli 26.4 bars. I use reasonable torque, but did not measure it
    with a torque wrench during installation. I thought the bars
    twisted due to the impact of the fall. I really think now that the
    reason I crashed on the hop and fell in a pot hole is because the
    bars slipped before the fall due to a relatively minor impact
    (landing a hop, hitting a pothole), and being out of the saddle with
    my weight forward, this caused me to dive into the pavement. I want
    to figure this out, because the only other possibile explanation is
    that I am being punished for past sins or else I have completely
    lost my reflexes.

    Hmmm. If the bars twisted from hitting the ground, there'd be
    significant scrapes on the brake levers, torn up bar tape, etc.
    Absent that, then your massive arms held the bars stationary while the
    steerer twisted in the clamp. Absent that, the clmaping force was
    pretty weak.

  7. I can't go over the bars, I commute on a recumbent where my head is lower
    than my old upright's saddle. While I can't jump curbs and I wouldn't ride
    one in really heavy traffic, I feel much safer now riding head up and feet
    first instead of head down and head first.

    I recently rode the carbon upright I commuted on for years, after an
    unprovoked "ouch" after sitting on the saddle, I pedaled off, feeling like I
    was riding a stepladder. I never really thought about endo-ing on it
    before, but I thought about it then.

    "Jay Beattie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In my 40 or so years of road cycling, I have gone OTB only a
    handful of times -- usually after hitting the side of a turning
    car. In the last three weeks, however, I have don it twice.
    First, after hitting a pot hole while riding out of the saddle (I
    think; it happened fast and in the dark). Second, after a bunny
    hop on to a curb -- a move I do every day on my way to/from work.
    The odd part is that both times I did a face plant, and the
    second time I had to get my face sewn up (remember, always ask
    for the plastic surgeon). In my experience, the usual OTB mode
    is the "Superman" (arms out) or the head up, shoulder plant and
    roll. I could not figure out why I landed on my face. Both
    times, however, I noticed that my bars had twisted a lot -- and
    the stem was one of the few changed pieces on this bike. It is a
    cheap-o two bolt threadless (probably 26.0) with an old set of
    Cinelli 26.4 bars. I use reasonable torque, but did not measure
    it with a torque wrench during installation. I thought the bars
    twisted due to the impact of the fall. I really think now that
    the reason I crashed on the hop and fell in a pot hole is because
    the bars slipped before the fall due to a relatively minor impact
    (landing a hop, hitting a pothole), and being out of the saddle
    with my weight forward, this caused me to dive into the pavement.
    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else I
    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

  8. Jay Beattie said:

    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else I
    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

    I'd suggest the only prudent thing to do is to assume it's that you've
    lost your reflexes. I can only assume that you readjusted the bars
    after the first accident (so I guess it's also possible you've lost
    your mechanical abilities instead). ;-)

    Serioiusly though, both sound like classic "stuff the front wheel into
    something solid when not expecting a sudden deceleration syndrome",
    guaranteed to cause an OTB experience.

    I've had a few of those myownself, though in every case I knew
    precisely what cased it (operator error). ;-)

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $695 ti frame

  9. "Robert Haston" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    I can't go over the bars, I commute on a recumbent where my head
    is lower than my old upright's saddle.

    Exactly what he wanted to know.

  10. "Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jay Beattie said:

    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

    I'd suggest the only prudent thing to do is to assume it's that


    you've

    Quoted message said:

    lost your reflexes. I can only assume that you readjusted the


    bars

    Quoted message said:

    after the first accident (so I guess it's also possible you've


    lost

    Quoted message said:

    your mechanical abilities instead). ;-)

    Serioiusly though, both sound like classic "stuff the front


    wheel into

    Quoted message said:

    something solid when not expecting a sudden deceleration


    syndrome",

    Quoted message said:

    guaranteed to cause an OTB experience.

    I've had a few of those myownself, though in every case I knew
    precisely what cased it (operator error). ;-)

    Another odd bit is that I did not toast my front wheel, break the
    fork (a very cheap and limber CF) or bend the steel frame --
    although I have not checked the frame closely after the second
    fall. Maybe I need a new titanium bike to break the curse! --
    Jay Beattie.

  11. Jay Beattie said:


    "Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jay Beattie said:

    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

    I'd suggest the only prudent thing to do is to assume it's that


    you've

    Quoted message said:

    lost your reflexes. I can only assume that you readjusted the


    bars

    Quoted message said:

    after the first accident (so I guess it's also possible you've


    lost

    Quoted message said:

    your mechanical abilities instead). ;-)

    Serioiusly though, both sound like classic "stuff the front


    wheel into

    Quoted message said:

    something solid when not expecting a sudden deceleration


    syndrome",

    Quoted message said:

    guaranteed to cause an OTB experience.

    I've had a few of those myownself, though in every case I knew
    precisely what cased it (operator error). ;-)

    Another odd bit is that I did not toast my front wheel, break the
    fork (a very cheap and limber CF) or bend the steel frame --
    although I have not checked the frame closely after the second
    fall. Maybe I need a new titanium bike to break the curse! --
    Jay Beattie.

    Dear Jay,

    Lay the bike on its side so that the far end of the front
    tire is braced sideways against the ground under your foot
    (or brace the frame under your foot), grab one end of the
    handlebars, and give a good heave.

    You've got the leverage of a modest crowbar, which can
    duplicate the impact of all sorts of crash landings, so the
    handlebars may well twist--think of that tiny dingus inside
    the steerer tube trying to resist your mighty muscles
    imitating shock of a crash.

    If nothing twists, something might break (perhaps something
    very cheap and limber made of CF), which--horrors!--would
    leave you no choice but to purchase a new titanium bicycle.

    CF

  12. Jay Beattie said:

    In my 40 or so years of road cycling, I have gone OTB only a
    handful of times ...

    Thankfully, you're a handful of times ahead of me. My only OTB incident
    was in a parking lot over 30 years ago.

    -- usually after hitting the side of a turning

    Quoted message said:

    car. In the last three weeks, however, I have don it twice.
    First, after hitting a pot hole while riding out of the saddle (I
    think; it happened fast and in the dark). Second, after a bunny
    hop on to a curb -- a move I do every day on my way to/from work.
    The odd part is that both times I did a face plant, and the
    second time I had to get my face sewn up (remember, always ask
    for the plastic surgeon). In my experience, the usual OTB mode
    is the "Superman" (arms out) or the head up, shoulder plant and
    roll. I could not figure out why I landed on my face. Both
    times, however, I noticed that my bars had twisted a lot -- and
    the stem was one of the few changed pieces on this bike. It is a
    cheap-o two bolt threadless (probably 26.0) with an old set of
    Cinelli 26.4 bars. I use reasonable torque, but did not measure
    it with a torque wrench during installation. I thought the bars
    twisted due to the impact of the fall. I really think now that
    the reason I crashed on the hop and fell in a pot hole is because
    the bars slipped before the fall due to a relatively minor impact
    (landing a hop, hitting a pothole), and being out of the saddle
    with my weight forward, this caused me to dive into the pavement.
    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else I
    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

    I think what you're describing is very plausible. The possible mismatch
    in clamp diameter and bar diameter sounds worrisome, and it may be that
    you subconsciously went easy on the torque, worrying about your
    "cheap-o" stem's bolts.

    Unfortunately, the tightness of that connection isn't easy to test.
    You'll put more force on the bars during a pothole hit than you can
    readily do in your workshop. I'll bet you were on the hoods, too, since
    that's where your hand force would cause the greatest rotation torque.
    And once that bar starts rotating, you're not going to be able to keep
    your body from surging forward and down.

    Long ago, I broke a stem's clamp bolt during installation, so I'm a bit
    leery of overtightening, but I haven't had your problem (and I've
    certainly hit enough potholes). I wonder how many people have had their
    bars slip, even without a subsequent crash? Are two bolt stems worse
    than one bolt stems in this regard?

    I believe what I'd do would be to 1) be sure the clamp & bar diameters
    match. 2) Get some extra high-grade bolts on hand, to relieve the
    worry about breaking one. (You may want an Easy Out and drill, too, in
    case you have trouble removing a broken stub of bolt). 3) You could
    consider a shot of blue Loctite at the bar-clamp joint. I mean on the
    bar itself, not on its bolts.

    --
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
    Substitute cc dot ysu dot
    edu]

  13. Jay Beattie said:

    "Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote ..

    Quoted message said:
    Jay Beattie said:

    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

    I'd suggest the only prudent thing to do is to assume it's that


    you've

    Quoted message said:

    lost your reflexes. I can only assume that you readjusted the


    bars

    Quoted message said:

    after the first accident (so I guess it's also possible you've


    lost

    Quoted message said:

    your mechanical abilities instead). ;-)

    Serioiusly though, both sound like classic "stuff the front


    wheel into

    Quoted message said:

    something solid when not expecting a sudden deceleration


    syndrome",

    Quoted message said:

    guaranteed to cause an OTB experience.

    I've had a few of those myownself, though in every case I knew
    precisely what cased it (operator error). ;-)

    Another odd bit is that I did not toast my front wheel, break the
    fork (a very cheap and limber CF) or bend the steel frame --
    although I have not checked the frame closely after the second
    fall. Maybe I need a new titanium bike to break the curse! --

    It's worked for me on my road bike - but sadly the MTBs seem to be
    cursed as much as a steel bike. The real advantage is that it hurts
    less when a titanium bike lands on you after an OTB excursion. ;-)

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $695 ti frame

  14. "Jay Beattie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else I
    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

    In order to give an accurate assesment we need to have the complete story.
    Exactly what are these sins?

  15. I had two big crashes on my hypercycle recumbent:
    1) Riding fast, approaching a stop light, not paying attention , and
    front wheel (16"x21/8" I think) drops into sewer grid instantly bring
    the bike to a stop. I was launched into the air and landed ON MY FEET
    about 6 feet ahead of the bike. Someone in a passing car slowed down
    to ask me if I was actually trying to do that!
    2) Rear ended by a motorcycle on hwy 246 in Tokyo while traveling at
    high speed. I don't remember much of what happened because I hit my
    head on the ground so hard I broke my helmet. No major damage to me
    or the bike.

    I would rather be on a recumbent in a wreck for many reasons-
    traveling feet first is a much more sensible way to go. The head up
    seating position allows you to see a bad situation developing sooner
    than a head down, head-first position, so you have a little more time
    to avoid problems. If you do hit something/someone, your feet and
    legs are there to help keep the rest of your body out of the pile up.
    Finally, you are usually closer to the ground which means there is
    less damage when you get there.

    TD

  16. "hhu" <uuhh> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I had two big crashes on my hypercycle recumbent:
    1) Riding fast, approaching a stop light, not paying attention


    , and

    Quoted message said:

    front wheel (16"x21/8" I think) drops into sewer grid instantly


    bring

    Quoted message said:

    the bike to a stop. I was launched into the air and landed ON


    MY FEET

    Quoted message said:

    about 6 feet ahead of the bike. Someone in a passing car


    slowed down

    Quoted message said:

    to ask me if I was actually trying to do that!
    2) Rear ended by a motorcycle on hwy 246 in Tokyo while


    traveling at

    Quoted message said:

    high speed. I don't remember much of what happened because I


    hit my

    Quoted message said:

    head on the ground so hard I broke my helmet. No major damage


    to me

    Quoted message said:

    or the bike.

    Some wall-type impacts are better on a conventional bike,
    depending on the height of the wall. For example, I would rather
    be on a conventional bike when it comes to impacting a car. I
    went over the hood of a car and landed on my feet -- and caught
    my bike on the bounce. I would have smashed into the fender
    panel on a recumbent.

    Quoted message said:


    I would rather be on a recumbent in a wreck for many reasons-
    traveling feet first is a much more sensible way to go. The


    head up

    Quoted message said:

    seating position allows you to see a bad situation developing


    sooner

    Quoted message said:

    than a head down, head-first position, so you have a little


    more time

    Quoted message said:

    to avoid problems. If you do hit something/someone, your feet


    and

    Quoted message said:

    legs are there to help keep the rest of your body out of the


    pile up.

    Quoted message said:

    Finally, you are usually closer to the ground which means there


    is

    Quoted message said:

    less damage when you get there.

    The problem is that I do not pick a bike for wrecking. There is
    just no way I would ride a 30lb+ recumbent to work everyday, not
    with the kind of elevation I have to do or like to do. -- Jay
    Beattie.

  17. Mark Hickey said:

    The real advantage is that it hurts
    less when a titanium bike lands on you after an OTB excursion. ;-)

    Because, in Buycycling-speak, they're supple, yet resilient?

    --
    --------------------+
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
    replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  18. Robert Haston said:

    I can't go over the bars, I commute on a recumbent where my head is lower
    than my old upright's saddle. While I can't jump curbs and I wouldn't ride
    one in really heavy traffic, I feel much safer now riding head up and feet
    first instead of head down and head first.

    I recently rode the carbon upright I commuted on for years, after an
    unprovoked "ouch" after sitting on the saddle, I pedaled off, feeling like I
    was riding a stepladder. I never really thought about endo-ing on it
    before, but I thought about it then.

    I went over the bars on an upright bicycle after hitting a small
    pedestrian who ran out from between two parked motor vehicles into the
    middle of a street (well away from any crosswalk). I received painful
    (but superficial) head injuries and bent the fork. This is why I prefer
    to ride a recumbent in urban area with pedestrians are common, as I
    believe I would come out much better in a bicycle/pedestrian collision.

    A short wheelbase recumbent with a small diameter drivewheel and
    matching oversize chainring is preferred - a leading 62T "buzz saw"
    makes idiotic pedestrians (e.g. college undergraduates) think twice
    about violating my right of way.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island

  19. Jay Beattie said:

    In my 40 or so years of road cycling, I have gone OTB only a
    handful of times -- usually after hitting the side of a turning
    car. In the last three weeks, however, I have don it twice.
    First, after hitting a pot hole while riding out of the saddle (I
    think; it happened fast and in the dark). Second, after a bunny
    hop on to a curb -- a move I do every day on my way to/from work.
    The odd part is that both times I did a face plant, and the
    second time I had to get my face sewn up (remember, always ask
    for the plastic surgeon). In my experience, the usual OTB mode
    is the "Superman" (arms out) or the head up, shoulder plant and
    roll. I could not figure out why I landed on my face. Both
    times, however, I noticed that my bars had twisted a lot -- and
    the stem was one of the few changed pieces on this bike. It is a
    cheap-o two bolt threadless (probably 26.0) with an old set of
    Cinelli 26.4 bars. I use reasonable torque, but did not measure
    it with a torque wrench during installation. I thought the bars
    twisted due to the impact of the fall. I really think now that
    the reason I crashed on the hop and fell in a pot hole is because
    the bars slipped before the fall due to a relatively minor impact
    (landing a hop, hitting a pothole), and being out of the saddle
    with my weight forward, this caused me to dive into the pavement.
    I want to figure this out, because the only other possibile
    explanation is that I am being punished for past sins or else I
    have completely lost my reflexes. -- Jay Beattie.

    Putting the front wheel into an unseen pothole
    while standing can certainly send one over.
    A little bar slippage as the RESULT of such a
    mishap would not be unusual or cause for alarm--
    a bar that twists a bit in a wreck is not necessarily
    too loose. But did your bar twist before and
    cause the wreck? An easy way to test if this
    could have happened is to stand over the bike
    (not while riding) gripping the front tire with
    your legs, and attempt to pull the bars
    out of place with your hands. If they move
    easily, their premature movement was likely
    the cause of your endos; if they won't move,
    or require a great deal of force to move just
    a little, then probably not.

    The fact that you could not get an arm out to
    save your face indicates to me that something
    might have happened with your bike to cause
    the wreck. However, I also suspect that if your
    bars twisted when launching or landing you would
    have been able to detect, and register, this
    failure as the cause of the wreck even as the
    wreck unfolded. I would guess that your bars
    were indeed a little loose, but that they did not
    cause the wreck process to begin; rather, you
    lurched forward for some other reason,
    and the fall was accelerated and exacerbated
    by the sudden movement of your bars after
    you were pressing violently onto them.

    Another possible culprit
    could be a slow leak in the front, which goes
    undetected until you need that front tire to
    stay round during some maneuver. It doesnt,
    the wheel flops and over you go.

    Whenever I have had bunnyhop incidents in
    the past, an inadvertant clip-out or some
    other pedal snafu was the cause. This is
    an indication that I am not very good at
    bunnyhopping, the masters of which are
    just floating on the pedals when they
    do it.

    Anyway it sounds like your bar/stem interface
    might be a good candidate for a thin shim.
    It is probably a good idea to pull the fork and
    inspect the steer tube.

    Robert

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