New wheel set head aches, help

veloci said:

My new wheels:

303 Zipp rims
white industries hubs
spim x-ray spokes
My bike; Project one Klein pro-q, campy record all around.

The problem: the fork moves / shakes back and forth whenever brakes are applied. These wheels are about 4 weeks old and have done this from day one. Zipp replaced the front rim a week ago, i picked up my wheel yesterday, went for a ride and nothing changed. I went back to the LBS and they noticed the problem again. the wheel builder check spoke by spoke to check tension and everything was fine. I swaped wheels with one of the bikes in their shop and there were absolutely no issues.

What can this be? anyone has experienced anything like this?

I am thinking about getting my $1,200 back and buying the new eurus carbon.

Check out your headset - Fork shudder is more likely due to a loose or otherwise compromised headset. Alternatively - are you using the right brake pads for the braking surface on your zipps?

Armchair, i am using 303 clinchers and the right brake pads. I also had the HD checked and it was fine. the intriging part is the fact that when i place other wheels on the bike the shudder goes away. I have placed my wheel on another bike and the shudder is there, so it is definetely the wheel. Now, i wonder if going to tubeless (no aluminum rim) will take care of this. any ideas?

veloci said:

Armchair, i am using 303 clinchers and the right brake pads. I also had the HD checked and it was fine. the intriging part is the fact that when i place other wheels on the bike the shudder goes away. I have placed my wheel on another bike and the shudder is there, so it is definetely the wheel. Now, i wonder if going to tubeless (no aluminum rim) will take care of this. any ideas?

Front brake mounted nice and tight? Other than that I'm stumped, especially since Zipp have replaced a wheel already, unless they both came from a dud batch of Zipps. You might just end up wasting a lot of good riding time trying to solve the insoluble - if it were me i'd be talking to the LBS about an exchange for something else.

I spent about an hour at the shop today trying to figure this problem out with no success. LBS is trying to convince me to go tubelees because they feel the aluminum rim on the Zipps is the probelm. What do you guys think of tubular? i know they are lighter, but are they worth the hassle and more expensive tires and limited seletion of tires? if i do not get convinced on the tubulars, i am buying a set of 2004 eurus, i do not think the 2005's are worth the extra money just for carbon hubs.

veloci said:

My new wheels:

303 Zipp rims
white industries hubs
spim x-ray spokes
My bike; Project one Klein pro-q, campy record all around.

The problem: the fork moves / shakes back and forth whenever brakes are applied. These wheels are about 4 weeks old and have done this from day one. Zipp replaced the front rim a week ago, i picked up my wheel yesterday, went for a ride and nothing changed. I went back to the LBS and they noticed the problem again. the wheel builder check spoke by spoke to check tension and everything was fine. I swaped wheels with one of the bikes in their shop and there were absolutely no issues.

What can this be? anyone has experienced anything like this?

I am thinking about getting my $1,200 back and buying the new eurus carbon.

If you've checked out your HS and the wheel is sound then it has to be the brakes against the rim which is causing the problem. It could be the pads, the rim surface or the pad alignment. You could try putting the wheel on another bike to test this. Good luck.

I've seen a couple of people complain on-line of the braking surfaces on Zipp 303 such as

see: archive.roadbikereview.com0EFB3981.phpOpen ↗

but have no idea as to the veracity of this.

veloci said:

I spent about an hour at the shop today trying to figure this problem out with no success. LBS is trying to convince me to go tubelees because they feel the aluminum rim on the Zipps is the probelm. What do you guys think of tubular? i know they are lighter, but are they worth the hassle and more expensive tires and limited seletion of tires? if i do not get convinced on the tubulars, i am buying a set of 2004 eurus, i do not think the 2005's are worth the extra money just for carbon hubs.

I would go with the Eurus.
I think that Zipp may have some quality control issues.
If you set a micrometer or caliper to the exact width of the rim and run it around 360 degrees you might be able to see why the brakes are making irregular contact.
I suppose you already checked the rim braking surfaces to make sure they were clean and made sure the spoke tension is balanced. Plink, Plink, Plink..... all tones should be within 5 - 10 % of each other.
I am not a purist, but I agree with you idea of staying away from tubulars. I road them once on a freind's bicycle. They road fine, but I was constantly concerned about a simple flat. 100 miles of that and I decided that I didn't ever want to worry that way again.

Serenaslu, thank you for the link. that confirms what i told my LBS, the rims are defective.

Daveornee, I am getting the 2004 Eurus, the 2005 Eurus are way too expensive just to get carbon hubs and a silver rim. And, i agree with you, Zipp definitely has some QA issues.

Davidbod, i tried switchubg my wheels to a Madone and it acted the same way. so, i know it is the wheel.

i will keep everyone posted on the progress.

thank you everyone for the quick responses, they really helped.

daveornee said:

I am not a purist, but I agree with you idea of staying away from tubulars. I road them once on a freind's bicycle. They road fine, but I was constantly concerned about a simple flat. 100 miles of that and I decided that I didn't ever want to worry that way again.

If you keep a spare rolled up under your seat, what's to worry about?. You can easily make it home on an unglued tire as long as it's pumped up to a high enough pressure.

Been riding tublars for more than 30 years. Recently got a Trek with the Bontrager XLite clinchers. So far have ridden about 2500 miles on the clinchers and on my second set already. When you *do* get a flat out on the roads with a clincher, they are much more of a hassle than with a tubular. When I road tublars constantly, would get a flat about once a month or maybe every 1,000 miles. So far with the clinchers I've gotten 2 flats in 2,500 miles. Price wise a high end tubular might be a bit more than a high end clincher, but overall, I'm thinking I prefer tubulars even on training wheels at this point and certainly on race wheels. Will probably keep the clincher rims (am cheap) instead of buying yet another set of rims and just start using cheaper clincher tires tho on these training wheels to cut the price and make me work a bit harder to keep up on the club rides.

My 2 cents.

veloci said:

I spent about an hour at the shop today trying to figure this problem out with no success. LBS is trying to convince me to go tubelees because they feel the aluminum rim on the Zipps is the probelm. What do you guys think of tubular? i know they are lighter, but are they worth the hassle and more expensive tires and limited seletion of tires? if i do not get convinced on the tubulars, i am buying a set of 2004 eurus, i do not think the 2005's are worth the extra money just for carbon hubs.

joule said:

Been riding tublars for more than 30 years. Recently got a Trek with the Bontrager XLite clinchers. So far have ridden about 2500 miles on the clinchers and on my second set already. When you *do* get a flat out on the roads with a clincher, they are much more of a hassle than with a tubular. When I road tublars constantly, would get a flat about once a month or maybe every 1,000 miles. So far with the clinchers I've gotten 2 flats in 2,500 miles. Price wise a high end tubular might be a bit more than a high end clincher, but overall, I'm thinking I prefer tubulars even on training wheels at this point and certainly on race wheels. Will probably keep the clincher rims (am cheap) instead of buying yet another set of rims and just start using cheaper clincher tires tho on these training wheels to cut the price and make me work a bit harder to keep up on the club rides.

My 2 cents.

The Bont Xlites that came on your Trek may not be the best tire clincher out there. Suggest you try Conti GP 3000's, or another top-quality clincher before deciding that your tubulars have fewer problems, or are more cost-effective.

Well like I said, am up for putting different tires on the clincher rims. Weight is not a concern since they are for training. The Xlites are good tires but made more for speed as opposed to longevity. I can certainly understand people's preference to clinchers, but I do think people get too concerned about roll-offs (never happened to me in 30 years) and messing with glue (I don't on the road when I get a flat). That leaves the only two other issues (1) changing (easier with tubulars on the road) and (2) cost (not a lot of difference this day in age). For example the Gp3000's you mentioned cost $45.(on sale atm) on all3sports atm while the sprinter tubulars cost $60 (not on sale atm). Add a tube for the clincher ($6) and certainly cheaper, but well within the same range to consider other issues already presented.

BTW, came up with a good site today if you are interested in tubulars, glueing and comparisons. No ads, just information.

engr.ukans.eduTubular.htmlOpen ↗

Show 3 links which lead to PDF info on tubular tire adhesive performance and proper glueing techniques.

For my race wheels, the effort is minimal. Sure you have to do it and it takes a day or so if you want to do it right. But then you probably won't have to do it again for a year based on the limited use of race wheels.

dhk said:

The Bont Xlites that came on your Trek may not be the best tire clincher out there. Suggest you try Conti GP 3000's, or another top-quality clincher before deciding that your tubulars have fewer problems, or are more cost-effective.