Syncope

Blair P. Houghton said:

(Borrowed from this week's MRH thread.)

Bill said:

If you are healthy you can't ride hard enough to hurt your heart. Your legs
will quit going around and you will fall off first. 🙂 If you are grinning

I don't fall off. I work out, cool down, get off, stretch,
bending over, then when I stand up, I get very light-headed.

This has gotten worse the "fitter" I'm getting. I almost
actually keeled over this morning after a HIIT session on
a stationary bike.

I had my doctor check my blood a few weeks ago, and I'm
not anemic, with low but not abnormally low blood pressure.

I'm doing a lot of upper-body work mixed in with riding
(all spin-class bikes for the past month), so I don't
expect it's a problem of asymmetric fitness. More likely
the entire program is adding to it.

Anyone else getting this?

It happens to me occasionally. I too have slightly low blood pressure.

The doctor told me it's nothing to worry about. It's directly related
to low blood pressure, and it's to be taken as a good sign.

Just be careful with it. Don't bend over and stand up real quickly.

--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Blair P. Houghton said:

(Borrowed from this week's MRH thread.)

Bill said:

If you are healthy you can't ride hard enough to hurt your heart. Your
legs
will quit going around and you will fall off first. 🙂 If you are
grinning

I don't fall off. I work out, cool down, get off, stretch,
bending over, then when I stand up, I get very light-headed.

This has gotten worse the "fitter" I'm getting. I almost
actually keeled over this morning after a HIIT session on
a stationary bike.

I had my doctor check my blood a few weeks ago, and I'm
not anemic, with low but not abnormally low blood pressure.

I'm doing a lot of upper-body work mixed in with riding
(all spin-class bikes for the past month), so I don't
expect it's a problem of asymmetric fitness. More likely
the entire program is adding to it.

Anyone else getting this?

--Blair
"Well, I got blood in my head sometime.
That's for sure."

Yes, it happens to me after a hard ride and I have borderline high
blood pressure. 125/85 is about the normal for me but after a hard
ride in the heat this summer I almost passed out after getting off
the bike and then standing straight up. When I got home I measured
my blood pressure at 80/50 and was still feeling a bit light headed.

I think this group went around on this in the summer with something
called "Post exercise Hypotension.". It seems to be true since I
have had it happen to me more than once. At work (past tense) there
was a mountain that I would ride around at lunch time and I would
measure my blood pressure before and after the ride. This was
possible due to a sit down station at the local grocers. Before
attacking the mountain at lunch I was at 130/90 and 9 miles and
1,000 feet of climbing later I was down to 90/50. Small mountain,
but still a good lunch ride.

Sometimes I get to the point where I have to put my head between my
knees, bent over, and then stand up slowly to get the blood pressure
up to where I am not feeling faint.

If it was a heart problem I would have killed myself a long time ago
since I never worry about it but just go out and ride or run. Even the
fittest among us need some pressure to pump the blood to the brain.
I remember hearing of a racer who after a very hard mountain climb
passed out on the downhill and crashed his bike, breaking his leg.
I think you are healthy and that it happens to most of us if we work
out hard enough and long enough.

It could be dehydration if you are sweating a lot during the workout,
since I have personally been at that point a few times this summer.
For me, I drank to the point of having my stomach sloshing with
water but I was still dehydrated since I was sweating faster
than my stomach would absorb the water I drank.
Personal experiences, not advice.
Bill

--
bbaka

Frank Krygowski said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

(Borrowed from this week's MRH thread.)

Bill said:

If you are healthy you can't ride hard enough to hurt your heart. Your
legs
will quit going around and you will fall off first. 🙂 If you are
grinning

I don't fall off. I work out, cool down, get off, stretch,
bending over, then when I stand up, I get very light-headed.

This has gotten worse the "fitter" I'm getting. I almost
actually keeled over this morning after a HIIT session on
a stationary bike.

I had my doctor check my blood a few weeks ago, and I'm
not anemic, with low but not abnormally low blood pressure.

I'm doing a lot of upper-body work mixed in with riding
(all spin-class bikes for the past month), so I don't
expect it's a problem of asymmetric fitness. More likely
the entire program is adding to it.

Anyone else getting this?

It happens to me occasionally. I too have slightly low blood pressure.

The doctor told me it's nothing to worry about. It's directly related
to low blood pressure, and it's to be taken as a good sign.

Just be careful with it. Don't bend over and stand up real quickly.

--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

See my somewhat long post just before this. I have slightly high
blood pressure and the light headedness just means you had a good
workout. Besides, if it is your heart you will just pass out and not
wake up. Downside to that is that you will not get to see if Lance
does it again next year. Not on the OLN channel, at least.
Bill

--
bbaka

Blair P. Houghton said:

(Borrowed from this week's MRH thread.)

Bill said:

If you are healthy you can't ride hard enough to hurt your heart. Your legs
will quit going around and you will fall off first. 🙂 If you are grinning

I don't fall off. I work out, cool down, get off, stretch,
bending over, then when I stand up, I get very light-headed.

This has gotten worse the "fitter" I'm getting. I almost
actually keeled over this morning after a HIIT session on
a stationary bike.

I had my doctor check my blood a few weeks ago, and I'm
not anemic, with low but not abnormally low blood pressure.

I'm doing a lot of upper-body work mixed in with riding
(all spin-class bikes for the past month), so I don't
expect it's a problem of asymmetric fitness. More likely
the entire program is adding to it.

Anyone else getting this?

--Blair
"Well, I got blood in my head sometime.
That's for sure."

I have the same thing. Low blood pressure, not anemic, very fit,
occasional dizziness. I have never passed out but sometimes get
tunnelvision for a few moments.

I think its related to hydration and/or electrolyte levels. The worst
times I have ever had it were after hard swimming, and it seems to be
much less of a problem for me if I'm drinking constantly. If I'm working
hard I can drink up to 10L or more in a day, but feel fine afterwards.

At least my doctor recommended proper hydration to me over more drastic
alternative treatments. Proper hydration isn't something that only
happens while working out, your levels of hydration are cumulative over
a period of possibly days. Watch that your urine stays very pale in
colour. I don't like sports drinks so I mainly drink plain water, eating
something occasionally for energy and electrolytes. I also like to drink
V8 sometimes, which is a bit heavier and has a nice amount of salt.

Jacobe Hazzard said:

I think its related to hydration and/or electrolyte levels. The worst
times I have ever had it were after hard swimming, and it seems to be
much less of a problem for me if I'm drinking constantly. If I'm working
hard I can drink up to 10L or more in a day, but feel fine afterwards.

That's interesting. I hadn't paid attention to whether hydration is a
factor, and my doctor (non-cyclist, unfortunately) never suggested it.

I also like to drink

Quoted message said:

V8 sometimes, which is a bit heavier and has a nice amount of salt.

V8 juice is like magic for many people. On long days in high heat, it
feels like a godsend.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Borrowed from this week's MRH thread.)

Bill said:

If you are healthy you can't ride hard enough to hurt your heart. Your

legs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will quit going around and you will fall off first. 🙂 If you are

grinning

Quoted message said:

I don't fall off. I work out, cool down, get off, stretch,
bending over, then when I stand up, I get very light-headed.

This has gotten worse the "fitter" I'm getting. I almost
actually keeled over this morning after a HIIT session on
a stationary bike.

I had my doctor check my blood a few weeks ago, and I'm
not anemic, with low but not abnormally low blood pressure.

I'm doing a lot of upper-body work mixed in with riding
(all spin-class bikes for the past month), so I don't
expect it's a problem of asymmetric fitness. More likely
the entire program is adding to it.

Anyone else getting this?

--Blair
"Well, I got blood in my head sometime.
That's for sure."

There is a nice scientific name for it that I do not remember (at rest the
heart takes it's good old time starting to pump faster). When I occasionally
manage to get into really fit I have to be careful to stand up slowly if I
have been sitting for awhile. Also, rise slowly after bending at the waist.
That light headedness and tunnel vision says you are getting close. You can
pass out if you rise too quickly. Managed to find myself on the bathroom
floor a couple of years ago. Not good if you manage to whack your head. My
personal experience is that it is not particularly post exercise. It can be
anytime I've become very relaxed -very low heart rate.
Bill

Bill said:

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Borrowed from this week's MRH thread.)

Bill said:

If you are healthy you can't ride hard enough to hurt your heart. Your

legs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will quit going around and you will fall off first. 🙂 If you are

grinning

Quoted message said:

I don't fall off. I work out, cool down, get off, stretch,
bending over, then when I stand up, I get very light-headed.

This has gotten worse the "fitter" I'm getting. I almost
actually keeled over this morning after a HIIT session on
a stationary bike.

I had my doctor check my blood a few weeks ago, and I'm
not anemic, with low but not abnormally low blood pressure.

I'm doing a lot of upper-body work mixed in with riding
(all spin-class bikes for the past month), so I don't
expect it's a problem of asymmetric fitness. More likely
the entire program is adding to it.

Anyone else getting this?

--Blair
"Well, I got blood in my head sometime.
That's for sure."

There is a nice scientific name for it that I do not remember (at rest
the
heart takes it's good old time starting to pump faster). When I
occasionally
manage to get into really fit I have to be careful to stand up slowly if
I
have been sitting for awhile. Also, rise slowly after bending at the
waist.
That light headedness and tunnel vision says you are getting close. You
can
pass out if you rise too quickly. Managed to find myself on the bathroom
floor a couple of years ago. Not good if you manage to whack your head.
My
personal experience is that it is not particularly post exercise. It can
be
anytime I've become very relaxed -very low heart rate.
Bill

I guess you win the low heart rate contest. I heard that Miguel Indurain
had a resting pulse of only 26-28. About 3 months ago I did a sprint of
about 2 miles on the road with my bike then coasted, thinking "Yes, good
time", then found myself crashing into a ditch, semi-passed out. I sat
by the side of the road with my bike behind me for maybe 2 minutes and
about 15 cars passed but none stopped to see why I was sitting in the
mud in a ditch. Maybe I was invisible because I wasn't in a car.(?).
Bill B.

--
bbaka

Bill Baka said:

time", then found myself crashing into a ditch, semi-passed out. I sat
by the side of the road with my bike behind me for maybe 2 minutes and
about 15 cars passed but none stopped to see why I was sitting in the
mud in a ditch. Maybe I was invisible because I wasn't in a car.(?).

try it next time with your shirt on. i still have nightmares from that
photo you posted.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

Blair P. Houghton said:

(Borrowed from this week's MRH thread.)

I don't fall off. I work out, cool down, get off, stretch,
bending over, then when I stand up, I get very light-headed.

This has gotten worse the "fitter" I'm getting. I almost
actually keeled over this morning after a HIIT session on
a stationary bike.

I had my doctor check my blood a few weeks ago, and I'm
not anemic, with low but not abnormally low blood pressure.

I'm doing a lot of upper-body work mixed in with riding
(all spin-class bikes for the past month), so I don't
expect it's a problem of asymmetric fitness. More likely
the entire program is adding to it.

Anyone else getting this?

Are we talking about "Orthostatic Hypertension" here??

See: http://snipurl.com/bjrn . . . or . . . http://snipurl.com/bjro

Neil Brooks said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

(Borrowed from this week's MRH thread.)

I don't fall off. I work out, cool down, get off, stretch,
bending over, then when I stand up, I get very light-headed.

This has gotten worse the "fitter" I'm getting. I almost
actually keeled over this morning after a HIIT session on
a stationary bike.

I had my doctor check my blood a few weeks ago, and I'm
not anemic, with low but not abnormally low blood pressure.

I'm doing a lot of upper-body work mixed in with riding
(all spin-class bikes for the past month), so I don't
expect it's a problem of asymmetric fitness. More likely
the entire program is adding to it.

Anyone else getting this?

Are we talking about "Orthostatic Hypertension" here??

See: http://snipurl.com/bjrn . . . or . . . http://snipurl.com/bjro

Forgive me: Orthostatic HypOtension....

David Reuteler said:

Bill Baka said:

time", then found myself crashing into a ditch, semi-passed out. I sat
by the side of the road with my bike behind me for maybe 2 minutes and
about 15 cars passed but none stopped to see why I was sitting in the
mud in a ditch. Maybe I was invisible because I wasn't in a car.(?).

try it next time with your shirt on. i still have nightmares from that
photo you posted.

I unposted it after remembering someone else having the same feedback.
The rest may turn into a blog, but could use up all of my site space.
?????
Bill B

--
bbaka

Neil Brooks said:

Neil Brooks said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

(Borrowed from this week's MRH thread.)

I don't fall off. I work out, cool down, get off, stretch,
bending over, then when I stand up, I get very light-headed.

This has gotten worse the "fitter" I'm getting. I almost
actually keeled over this morning after a HIIT session on
a stationary bike.

I had my doctor check my blood a few weeks ago, and I'm
not anemic, with low but not abnormally low blood pressure.

I'm doing a lot of upper-body work mixed in with riding
(all spin-class bikes for the past month), so I don't
expect it's a problem of asymmetric fitness. More likely
the entire program is adding to it.

Anyone else getting this?

Are we talking about "Orthostatic Hypertension" here??

See: http://snipurl.com/bjrn . . . or . . . http://snipurl.com/bjro

Forgive me: Orthostatic HypOtension....

After going to the site, it appears that it is a non-sports related
problem with some people. There was no mention of exercise, just of
medications, so it sounds like the kind of thing that the elderly
may have, or a chronically ill younger person.
Everyone on this board is probably more fit than the average, and I
can say that it has happened to me without harm, but also that I
knew what it was and lowered my head in time. I think the collective
IQ of this group is high enough to get some good information passed
around, but with the usual disclaimer to "Go see a doctor.".
Bill B

--
bbaka

I am a young woman in good health and good shape and I was in the ER
for 3 days of tests (AWFUL) in Dec '03, while they determined the cause
of my frequent lightheadedness and infrequent fainting. After being
checked for heart attacks and countless instances of blood work and
wearing heart monitor for 24 hours, I was given a tilt table test. The
test recreated all my symptoms and the mystery was over. I had suffered
on more than one occasion a vasovagal syncope from orthostatic
hypotension. Basically, if you get real lightheaded and everything goes
black, you break out in a crazy sweat in seconds, you most likely have
the same problem. Dehydration, fatigue, anemia, and many other very
common things can add to the condition.
The doctors wanted to prescribe beta blockers and salt tabs to control
the condition, though they said that even if I was on beta blockers for
the rest of my life, there was no guarantee that I would not have
another episode.
Without getting overly complicated with the details of a failed reflex,
you pass out or feel as you are about to because there is not enough
blood in your brain. When you start to feel that way...Sit down
immediately. If you can, lie down and bend your knees. You should feel
better in seconds.
Now that I am aware of what the symptoms actually mean, I recognize
mine everytime. The first thing that always happens to me is my vision
becomes slightly impaired and then starts to get a little dark. Now, I
know and can operate absolutely fine without taking a pill everyday.
Hope this helps.

Quoted message said:

I am a young woman in good health and good shape and I was in the ER
for 3 days of tests (AWFUL) in Dec '03, while they determined the cause
of my frequent lightheadedness and infrequent fainting. After being
checked for heart attacks and countless instances of blood work and
wearing heart monitor for 24 hours, I was given a tilt table test. The
test recreated all my symptoms and the mystery was over. I had suffered
on more than one occasion a vasovagal syncope from orthostatic
hypotension. Basically, if you get real lightheaded and everything goes
black, you break out in a crazy sweat in seconds, you most likely have
the same problem. Dehydration, fatigue, anemia, and many other very
common things can add to the condition.
The doctors wanted to prescribe beta blockers and salt tabs to control
the condition, though they said that even if I was on beta blockers for
the rest of my life, there was no guarantee that I would not have
another episode.
Without getting overly complicated with the details of a failed reflex,
you pass out or feel as you are about to because there is not enough
blood in your brain. When you start to feel that way...Sit down
immediately. If you can, lie down and bend your knees. You should feel
better in seconds.
Now that I am aware of what the symptoms actually mean, I recognize
mine everytime. The first thing that always happens to me is my vision
becomes slightly impaired and then starts to get a little dark. Now, I
know and can operate absolutely fine without taking a pill everyday.
Hope this helps.

And I am a healthy 56 year old with borderline high blood pressure but
have experienced what you describe after some hard rides. I see stars
and feel super lightheaded and just bend over. One time I had to bail
the bike into a ditch because I could not maintain a riding position
without passing out and possibly going into (or under) traffic. I start
with about 125/85 and after a 2 hour ride of medium intensity, and yes I
do drink water on these, I can come back home and not feel a thing. Only
after sitting down and then trying to jump back up have I gone into the
Oxygen starvation mode and at one point I had to flop onto my bed and
just lay there. After a few minutes I was able to get up slowly enough
that my body had time to compensate. I don't think it is a real health
issue but a fairly normal reaction for some people. I think if I went to
my doctor he would tell me to stop the hard exercising so I am passing
on that. I did check my BP after a hard ride one time and found that it
had gone from my normal 125/85 down to something like 80/50.
Just so you know you are not alone.
Bill Baka

Thanks. Actually- that's exactly what happened during the tilt test. I
was rock solid at 120/80 for 30 minutes of the test...then BOOM-
crashed down to 75/50 (or close to that)...
But like I said...minutes later, completely normalized and fine.