Scored me a Repair Stand

Gags said:

What a bargain!!!!

I managed to score a second hand Grip Sport repair stand (bench mounted)
from Ivanhoe Cycles for the grand total of $75. It is in good condition and
apparantly they found that it was too hard to rotate bikes quickly so they
are going for a different model in their workshop.

I orignally talked to them about this stand about 3 months ago or so and at
that stage they wanted $130 or so just for the Grip Sport head (without the
bench mounting plate that had been modified to accept the head). I just
remembered this conversation this arvo and rang up to see if they still had
it - early Xmas present for me was the result.

I just looked on www.gripsport.com.au and they are selling the bench mounted
version for $409!!!! The bench mount that I scored is actually better as it
has a round post (with square conversion welded to the top) that mounts with
a cam lock similar to a bike post so that I can swing the head around when
not in use so that I don't crack my head on it.

No more clever contraptions of ropes and pulleys hanging off of the shed
door for me!!!!

Ride On,

Gags

Something welded out of plate, tube and rod - $409???

Not the most accurate or secure stand I've ever used - hard to change tube diameter quickly and safely for lightweight alloy tubes. Angle and height adjustment slides after a while. The legs on the legged version are clunky and heavy, and the little tab adj. screws are [censored].(You don't have to deal with this). It'll get you started, but try out an Ultimate of a Topeak PrepStand if you get the chance.

My Minoura suffered a wound on the GVBR - big gust of wind blew it and bike over on shaky ground - angle handle snapped off with weight of 10 speed [censored] on top of it. Gnaggh! That was a good stand!

M "Ultimate home mech stand on special for US$139 on BeyondBikes - yes, on the INTERNET!" H

Stands that grip a frame tube always scare the bejesus out of me. On many good steel bikes, the centre sections of the tubes are only 0.4mm thick, so clamping them like that, then pushing on spanners and the like is asking for trouble.

The euro stands are heaps better, I reckon. They support the bike by the front dropouts and the bottom bracket, so you can really torque up bottom bracket and pedal bolts and stuff, without bending your frame.

Here's an example:

http://www.llewellynbikes.com/thegallery/My-work-with-the-AIS-and-National-teams/aah

Regards,

Suzy

suzyj said:

Stands that grip a frame tube always scare the bejesus out of me. On many good steel bikes, the centre sections of the tubes are only 0.4mm thick, so clamping them like that, then pushing on spanners and the like is asking for trouble.

The euro stands are heaps better, I reckon. They support the bike by the front dropouts and the bottom bracket, so you can really torque up bottom bracket and pedal bolts and stuff, without bending your frame.

Here's an example:

http://www.llewellynbikes.com/thegallery/My-work-with-the-AIS-and-National-teams/aah

Regards,

Suzy

They have their attractions: they make a good display stand as well - but they are a bit unwieldy for non adult/standard frame sizes. You can't true up your front wheel in the bike, or adjust your front brake, or jiggle with your headset bearings. BBB make a good one.

I usually clamp the bike either around the seatpost if possible, or on the seat tube under the stays where the seatpost is reinforcing the frame tube from the inside. Putting it on the top tube is a last resort, for light work only.

M "Park PRS-4 OS, ya cannae hand a man a grander spanner" H

Gags said:

What a bargain!!!!

I managed to score a second hand Grip Sport repair stand (bench mounted)
from Ivanhoe Cycles for the grand total of $75. It is in good condition and
apparantly they found that it was too hard to rotate bikes quickly so they
are going for a different model in their workshop.

I orignally talked to them about this stand about 3 months ago or so and at
that stage they wanted $130 or so just for the Grip Sport head (without the
bench mounting plate that had been modified to accept the head). I just
remembered this conversation this arvo and rang up to see if they still had
it - early Xmas present for me was the result.

I just looked on www.gripsport.com.au and they are selling the bench mounted
version for $409!!!! The bench mount that I scored is actually better as it
has a round post (with square conversion welded to the top) that mounts with
a cam lock similar to a bike post so that I can swing the head around when
not in use so that I don't crack my head on it.

No more clever contraptions of ropes and pulleys hanging off of the shed
door for me!!!!

Ride On,

Gags

Oh man that sucks! although I must admit I am looking for a floor stand version, because I dont have a garage and all that stuff, living in an apartment. I cant believe the prices they charge for these things, an extended piece of metal with a rotating clamp on the end of it..!!!! I know that is simplified somewhat.. but thats basically all it is!

"MikeyOz" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

Oh man that sucks! although I must admit I am looking for a floor
stand version, because I dont have a garage and all that stuff, living
in an apartment. I cant believe the prices they charge for these
things, an extended piece of metal with a rotating clamp on the end of
it..!!!! I know that is simplified somewhat.. but thats basically all
it is!

I'm in exactly the same position as you. I've been holding off because, as
you say, work stands are stupidly expensive for what they are.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

DRS said:

I'm in exactly the same position as you. I've been holding off
because, as you say, work stands are stupidly expensive for what
they are.

Look for a bike shop that's moving or renovating. That's where I got my
stand. It's a little worn, and you have to use the clamp upside down if
you're clamping at a certain angle (the notch used to stop the head
rotating is more a V than a U), but it works, and I think it cost me a
whole $50.

With MTBs I'm not too worried about crushing tubes, and I try to clamp
the seatpost or seat tube anyway. Makes drivetrain work a snap, and
working on forks is nice as well.

Dave - who should really work on both the drivetrain and forks on the
commuter, but that would entail work and possibly money.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden] | [email hidden]
"My ambition, naturally, is to have a student quote my own words
back to me without attribution in a final paper. That's an office
hour I'd look forward to." -- Kieran Healy, on plagiarism

DRS said:

"MikeyOz" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

Oh man that sucks! although I must admit I am looking for a floor
stand version, because I dont have a garage and all that stuff, living
in an apartment. I cant believe the prices they charge for these
things, an extended piece of metal with a rotating clamp on the end of
it..!!!! I know that is simplified somewhat.. but thats basically all
it is!

I'm in exactly the same position as you. I've been holding off because, as
you say, work stands are stupidly expensive for what they are.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

So go on, tell us how you would do it cheaper?

It might not seem to be rocket science to y'all who purport to use your large frontal lobes to earn your living, but like all good tools, it has to be made precisely and ruggedly, with input from longtime users, if you want one that works consistently and reliably all day, most days. IMO, Gripsport haven't quite got it right yet.

That's why several longtime quality manufacturers offer a "consumer" or "home" mechanic version of their shop tools, to deal with the occasional light use that a stand kept at home has to deal with.

Look around. $200 is not an outrageous sum to spend, and $300, in the ballpark.

Or you could use a couple of old singles hanging from the roof. Your choice.

M "stand up and be counted" H

mfhor said:

So go on, tell us how you would do it cheaper?

It might not seem to be rocket science to y'all who purport to use your large frontal lobes to earn your living, but like all good tools, it has to be made precisely and ruggedly, with input from longtime users, if you want one that works consistently and reliably all day, most days. IMO, Gripsport haven't quite got it right yet.

That's why several longtime quality manufacturers offer a "consumer" or "home" mechanic version of their shop tools, to deal with the occasional light use that a stand kept at home has to deal with.

Look around. $200 is not an outrageous sum to spend, and $300, in the ballpark.

Or you could use a couple of old singles hanging from the roof. Your choice.

M "stand up and be counted" H

Well it's always good to hear feedback on our products... good OR bad... but if you're going to tell us what is right and wrong with pricing OR that $409 is ridiculous for (how did he put it...) a bit of welded tube etc... then for Christ's sake get some knowledge and facts behind you first.

The fact is $409 is the full retail price for our repair stands. Now think for a moment who actually sets that retail price... NOT US! We have to sell an item to a shop at a price that allows them to put their mark-up on it... and for those of you who don't understand how this works, a lot of shops are putting 100% mark-up on stuff like ours. Now you do the maths and come up with the actual price (wholesale price) of our stands, eh?

And the fact is IF we sell direct to a customer we have to sell for the full retail price because if the shops, who make up 75% of our customer base, thought we were undercutting them they would never touch our stuff again.

And to the brain surgeon who mentioned just a bit of welded tube etc... make one. Don't just COPY one... design it and make it from scratch. Then you need to be able to laser cut, zinc plate, powder coat, assemble, advertise, pack, ship AND (as we do) give a lifetime warranty! There's a lot of parts in one of our stands and they all have to fit and work together.

Quoted post said:

work stands are stupidly expensive for what they are

Really?

Grip said:

Well it's always good to hear feedback on our products... good OR bad... but if you're going to tell us what is right and wrong with pricing OR that $409 is ridiculous for (how did he put it...) a bit of welded tube etc... then for Christ's sake get some knowledge and facts behind you first.

The fact is $409 is the full retail price for our repair stands. Now think for a moment who actually sets that retail price... NOT US! We have to sell an item to a shop at a price that allows them to put their mark-up on it... and for those of you who don't understand how this works, a lot of shops are putting 100% mark-up on stuff like ours. Now you do the maths and come up with the actual price (wholesale price) of our stands, eh?

And the fact is IF we sell direct to a customer we have to sell for the full retail price because if the shops, who make up 75% of our customer base, thought we were undercutting them they would never touch our stuff again.

And to the brain surgeon who mentioned just a bit of welded tube etc... make one. Don't just COPY one... design it and make it from scratch. Then you need to be able to laser cut, zinc plate, powder coat, assemble, advertise, pack, ship AND (as we do) give a lifetime warranty! There's a lot of parts in one of our stands and they all have to fit and work together.

Really?

Mmmeeeeooooowwwww!

what a wonderful bit of public relations.
i too use the 'consumer' level stand cos it does me fine. if i were working on it day-in-day-out Im sure i would do my 'nana at it, but it suits this horse's course fine.

perhaps you could revise your website to tell us just why these stands ARE so good as currently much of the blurb is 'fluffy' IMHO.

flyingdutch said:

Mmmeeeeooooowwwww!

what a wonderful bit of public relations.
i too use the 'consumer' level stand cos it does me fine. if i were working on it day-in-day-out Im sure i would do my 'nana at it, but it suits this horse's course fine.

perhaps you could revise your website to tell us just why these stands ARE so good as currently much of the blurb is 'fluffy' IMHO.

and for what it's worth, i cant see why the bench workstand is worth $409 either,
or even some of the wholesale half of that, for that matter...

but what would i know, Im just a consumer 😉

flyingdutch said:

Mmmeeeeooooowwwww!

what a wonderful bit of public relations.
i too use the 'consumer' level stand cos it does me fine. if i were working on it day-in-day-out Im sure i would do my 'nana at it, but it suits this horse's course fine.

perhaps you could revise your website to tell us just why these stands ARE so good as currently much of the blurb is 'fluffy' IMHO.

Well I certainly wasn't trying to be catty, flyingdutch. Please let me know exactly what it was that made me seem that way.

And as for bad public relations????? Well I actually thought that simply being a manufacturer that even bothered to come to a forum like this and address a customer's concern showed a measure of public relations? I get the feeling though that some people think a business should be able to produce the exact product everyone wants at the exact price that everyone wants to pay. Please... let me know how that's possible and we'll give it a go. The fact is though, we make everything right here in Australia and happen to think that actually counts for something. However it also means that we simply can't compete with those who just buy in from manufacturing nations paying $2 a month to their workers.

But then again we've never tried to compete with them so much as offer an alternative that falls between the cheap-and-nasty and the over-priced. And for what it's worth, one of the benifits of us manufacturing here is the fact that we CAN reply to and address customer concerns and feedback (as I am trying to do here). Our Workshop/Race stand is only ONE of our products. It has been through 3 slight design modifications in it's 5 year life and they were as a direct result of customer feedback and comment.

Flyingdutch, I'm sorry you find what we say about this stand on our website as "fluffy". The GripSport website says...

Quoted post said:

The Workshop/Race Stand is fitted with exactly the same work 'head' or clamp as the Pro-Shop models and will hold your bike by the frame or seat post and lock it at just about any angle you like without a hint of slip.

Our tripod stand is unbelievably stable on any surface, locks open automatically, folds in an instant and all up the whole stand (including 'head'😉 weighs in at less than 8 kilos.

Throw in height adjustment, zinc plating and powder coated finish, an all-steel construction and hand-built quality

... and I really don't know what more you think we can say. We've tried to say what it does, how it will do it, what it's made of, how it's finished, what it weighs and that it's handbuilt rather than mass produced.

Cheers

"Grip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mfhor said:

So go on, tell us how you would do it cheaper?

It might not seem to be rocket science to y'all who purport to use your
large frontal lobes to earn your living, but like all good tools, it has
to be made precisely and ruggedly, with input from longtime users, if
you want one that works consistently and reliably all day, most days.
IMO, Gripsport haven't quite got it right yet.

That's why several longtime quality manufacturers offer a "consumer" or
"home" mechanic version of their shop tools, to deal with the occasional
light use that a stand kept at home has to deal with.

Look around. $200 is not an outrageous sum to spend, and $300, in the
ballpark.

Or you could use a couple of old singles hanging from the roof. Your
choice.

M "stand up and be counted" H

Well it's always good to hear feedback on our products... good OR
bad... but if you're going to tell us what is right and wrong with
pricing OR that $409 is ridiculous for (how did he put it...) a bit of
welded tube etc... then for Christ's sake get some knowledge and facts
behind you first.

The fact is $409 is the full retail price for our repair stands. Now
think for a moment who actually sets that retail price... NOT US! We
have to sell an item to a shop at a price that allows them to put their
mark-up on it... and for those of you who don't understand how this
works, a lot of shops are putting 100% mark-up on stuff like ours. Now
you do the maths and come up with the actual price (wholesale price) of
our stands, eh?

And the fact is IF we sell direct to a customer we have to sell for the
full retail price because if the shops, who make up 75% of our customer
base, thought we were undercutting them they would never touch our
stuff again.

And to the brain surgeon who mentioned just a bit of welded tube etc...
make one. Don't just COPY one... design it and make it from scratch.
Then you need to be able to laser cut, zinc plate, powder coat,
assemble, advertise, pack, ship AND (as we do) give a lifetime
warranty! There's a lot of parts in one of our stands and they all have
to fit and work together.

Quoted message said:

work stands are stupidly expensive for what they areReally?

--
Grip

So does this mean that if mine stuffs up, I will be able to return it on a
warranty claim even though I bought it second hand???

FWIW, I am pretty happy with the stand so far and it sure beats stringing my
bikes up with ropes and pulleys from the shed door. My only initial gripe
was that the adjustment that allows the head to rotate around and has a
series of lugs that lock in at various angles does not allow the head to be
locked in with the jaws vertical. This would be handy for clamping onto
seatposts (so that cables are not interfered with) but with a bit of trial
and error, I found that I could mount the bike on the seatpost on the
setting that is closest to vertical (about 30 degrees or so??) and the front
of the bike is only angled up a bit.

I also reckon that the mount that I scored with it is good as it allows me
to rotate the head back over my work bench when not in use so that it is out
of my way when not working on bikes (I can even remove it and just leave the
base if I want to).

I believe that it is good to see a local business (aren't you guys at Epping
or Eltham???) doing well in an already established market.

Let me know if you guys ever come up with a wall-mounted rack that I can
hang six or seven bikes vertically from as I would probably be interested
(especially if you can incorporate some sort of device that hides recently
purchased bikes from the missus).

Ride On,

Gags

Gags said:

Let me know if you guys ever come up with a wall-mounted rack that I can
hang six or seven bikes vertically from as I would probably be interested
(especially if you can incorporate some sort of device that hides recently
purchased bikes from the missus).

He's right Grip! you make one of them 'bike-cloaking-devices' and I shall be indebted to you fer lif 😄

Gags said:

So does this mean that if mine stuffs up, I will be able to return it on a warranty claim even though I bought it second hand???

Yep!
A few people have said the stand looks "agricultural"... well I designed every product we make to have a lifetime warranty and that means they need to be over-engineered to buggery! As far as I'm concerned "agricultural" is a compliment... it's a tool... and we want it to last. Simple.

Gags said:

FWIW, I am pretty happy with the stand so far and it sure beats stringing my
bikes up with ropes and pulleys from the shed door. My only initial gripe
was that the adjustment that allows the head to rotate around and has a
series of lugs that lock in at various angles does not allow the head to be
locked in with the jaws vertical. This would be handy for clamping onto
seatposts (so that cables are not interfered with) but with a bit of trial
and error, I found that I could mount the bike on the seatpost on the
setting that is closest to vertical (about 30 degrees or so??) and the front
of the bike is only angled up a bit.

We went through quite a lot of angles and combinations for the locking mechanism. It had to be bullet-proof (hence the 10mm hardened steel lock pin which means fewer locking positions than a smaller pin BUT... it's bullet-proof!) and the angles were arrived at after lots of testing both in-house and with shop workshops where the concencus was that it was best to hang the front wheel "downward" a little as that holds the bike straight. I'd be a liar if I said it wasn't a compromise position, but it was the compromise position that scored the most votes.

Gags said:

I also reckon that the mount that I scored with it is good as it allows me
to rotate the head back over my work bench when not in use so that it is out
of my way when not working on bikes (I can even remove it and just leave the
base if I want to).

I can see your point, but the choice of square tubing was a design and production one... we use the same size material for a number of different products PLUS square tubing actually provides for more stability BECAUSE it wont allow the head to rotate about the post. This is a pic of our bench mounted stand the way it is originally... the silver "adapter" is for height adjustment and will simply lift straight off leaving the "post" only.
[img]gripsport.com.au60649203GS012%20Pro%20Bench.jpgOpen ↗[/img]

Gags said:

I believe that it is good to see a local business (aren't you guys at Epping
or Eltham???) doing well in an already established market.

Thanks for that. You're close with the location... Research actually (just past Eltham)... but to be honest even though we have a number of products, the "established market" of repair and storage stands etc is probably only 30% of our business, while the specialist bicycle engineering (frame repairs etc) is our main thing.

Gags said:

Let me know if you guys ever come up with a wall-mounted rack that I can
hang six or seven bikes vertically from as I would probably be interested
(especially if you can incorporate some sort of device that hides recently
purchased bikes from the missus).

Ride On,

Gags

Ha! I can see it now... the "Bike Hider"... As for storing 6 to 7 bikes as you described, I think our main competition would come from a length of 4x2 held out from the wall by big "L" brackets and a couple of Bunnings "hooks" screwed up into it. Hard to compete with that sort of simplicity really.

Cheers

flyingdutch said:

He's right Grip! you make one of them 'bike-cloaking-devices' and I shall be indebted to you fer lif 😄

Hmmm.... suddenly the idea of a "bike hider" is worth investigating. Now... I'm going to need some smoke... some mirrors...

Grip said:

Well I certainly wasn't trying to be catty, flyingdutch. Please let me know exactly what it was that made me seem that way.

"then for Christ's sake get some knowledge and facts behind you first."

probably not the best time of year to be using the lord's little fella's name in vain 🙄

Grip said:

And as for bad public relations????? Well I actually thought that simply being a manufacturer that even bothered to come to a forum like this and address a customer's concern showed a measure of public relations?

touche. "in to the valley of death he marched..."

Grip said:

I get the feeling though that some people think a business should be able to produce the exact product everyone wants at the exact price that everyone wants to pay.

my god. what an insane concept. hang on a minute...
Yup that's the same free market you referred to re pricing 😄

Grip said:

Please... let me know how that's possible and we'll give it a go. The fact is though, we make everything right here in Australia and happen to think that actually counts for something. However it also means that we simply can't compete with those who just buy in from manufacturing nations paying $2 a month to their workers.

dont let your employees read that! they'll be asking for a raise!!

Grip said:

I'm sorry you find what we say about this stand on our website as "fluffy".

Actually the bit that narks me the most about your website is the intro flash screen which you are forced to wait for. Its good web-design-etiquette to at minimum offer at "skip intro" button to your viewers. Altho flash intro' are SOOO 2001, darling" 😄

Grip said:

The fact is $409 is the full retail price for our repair stands. Now think for a moment who actually sets that retail price... NOT US!

Oh cmon, Grip! you cant claim innocence over the price by saying that someone else does the usual Oz retail thang and puts 100% on your wholesale price. you know the consequences of what's gonna happen to the numbers once it leaves your humble establishment. they could just as easily claim the same level of innocence saying 'well, we have to cover our costs. Its just the industry standard markup'. You by default DO set the price. Unless of course you do go to the extent of selling direct/online, then of course your prices look dandy! 😄

Suggestions?
Well, Im guessing that alot of people are limited for space even if they have wrestled their individual rights to 'the shed'.
I (and I suspect many others may too) dont have a bench, at least not sturdy enuff for that application.
How about a wall-mounted version that's on a simple vertical-swinging-hinge arrangement??? That way its mounted onto something even sturdier than the bench, is within easy reach of, say, all your wall mounted tools, bits, etc and best of all can be swung up out of the way once not in use.
It would be easier/less parts to make than your current model/s.
You can call it the 'SwinginDutch' 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄

flyingdutch said:

"then for Christ's sake get some knowledge and facts behind you first."

probably not the best time of year to be using the lord's little fella's name in vain 🙄

touche. "in to the valley of death he marched..."

my god. what an insane concept. hang on a minute...
Yup that's the same free market you referred to re pricing 😄

dont let your employees read that! they'll be asking for a raise!!

Actually the bit that narks me the most about your website is the intro flash screen which you are forced to wait for. Its good web-design-etiquette to at minimum offer at "skip intro" button to your viewers. Altho flash intro' are SOOO 2001, darling" 😄

Oh cmon, Grip! you cant claim innocence over the price by saying that someone else does the usual Oz retail thang and puts 100% on your wholesale price. you know the consequences of what's gonna happen to the numbers once it leaves your humble establishment. they could just as easily claim the same level of innocence saying 'well, we have to cover our costs. Its just the industry standard markup'. You by default DO set the price. Unless of course you do go to the extent of selling direct/online, then of course your prices look dandy! 😄

Suggestions?
Well, Im guessing that alot of people are limited for space even if they have wrestled their individual rights to 'the shed'.
I (and I suspect many others may too) dont have a bench, at least not sturdy enuff for that application.
How about a wall-mounted version that's on a simple vertical-swinging-hinge arrangement??? That way its mounted onto something even sturdier than the bench, is within easy reach of, say, all your wall mounted tools, bits, etc and best of all can be swung up out of the way once not in use.
It would be easier/less parts to make than your current model/s.
You can call it the 'SwinginDutch' 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄

Flying Dutch... sorry, but I'm actually having trouble knowing whether you're having a go at me seriously or not. I asked you what it was that made you think I was being "catty" ... and you told me off for taking the lord's name in vain. Relevance? Please?

I then mention the absolute impossibility of a business EVER being able to provide everything the consumer wants AT THE PRICE the consumer wants to pay... and you say "yup" as if that's the way it's SUPPOSED to be??????? Well sorry, mate... we can but try.

You told me originally that you thought what was said about our Workshop/Race Stand was "fluffy"... and when I addressed that, pointing out that we actually said a LOT about the stand you then tell me it's actually the flash intro to our site that "narks" you and then very sarcastically had a go at it being dated. Well get real, eh? It costs a lot of money to update a web site, and while I value your opinion that ours is "sooooo 2001 darling" I can't help but wonder if you're getting a little affected by the thin air way up there on your high horse! And for what it's worth we actually have an entire new site... it's been up a while... hopefully it's "sooooo 2005" and meets your standards. Let me know, eh?

And your final comments re pricing. You are absolutely right. We should actually Wholesale our products at a price that enables the retail cost to be more to your liking. Silly me. I know, I'll run my business at a loss... that seems fair... and if it COSTS $150 to actually make something then that is EXACTLY what we should sell it for, right?

And finally, thank you for the suggestion re the hinged/swinging wall mount. To be honest though I don't think there's a market for it. Also.. even though you said

Quoted post said:

It would be easier/less parts to make than your current model/s.

I doubt that anything that has to hinge out of the way AND still lock in place firmly would be quite as simple (and producible in small numbers) as you may think. Still, I do appreciate the thought.

Grip said:

Flying Dutch... sorry, but I'm actually having trouble knowing whether you're having a go at me seriously or not. I asked you what it was that made you think I was being "catty" ... and you told me off for taking the lord's name in vain. Relevance? Please?

bit of brevity to lighten the mood.

Grip said:

I then mention the absolute impossibility of a business EVER being able to provide everything the consumer wants AT THE PRICE the consumer wants to pay... and you say "yup" as if that's the way it's SUPPOSED to be??????? Well sorry, mate... we can but try.

you think its NOT the way its supposed to be?

Grip said:

You told me originally that you thought what was said about our Workshop/Race Stand was "fluffy"... and when I addressed that, pointing out that we actually said a LOT about the stand...

"Pro-Workshop Stand - Bench
Probably the toughest thing you'll ever bolt to your bench other than a vice.
If your floor space is limited but you still want the stability of a bolt-down repair stand, this is the one for you."
howabout detailed specs and the reasons we would buy this over competitiors to backup the pricepoint. or perhaps a few linked pics showing the range of movement, etc or holding something ridiculously heavy to illustrate strength. (remember those old superglue adds where some nutter would glue his helmet to a beam? anyone actually try that 😄)

Grip said:

you then tell me it's actually the flash intro to our site that "narks" you and then very sarcastically had a go at it being dated. Well get real, eh? It costs a lot of money to update a web site, and while I value your opinion that ours is "sooooo 2001 darling" I can't help but wonder if you're getting a little affected by the thin air way up there on your high horse! And for what it's worth we actually have an entire new site... it's been up a while... hopefully it's "sooooo 2005" and meets your standards. Let me know, eh?

any web useability literature will tell you that. Your designshop that did your site should be aware of such things. No thin air. Just facts. Deal, Grip.
Just as your field of expertise is engineering, perhaps you might entertain the notion that others have expertise in their field.

Grip said:

And your final comments re pricing. You are absolutely right. We should actually Wholesale our products at a price that enables the retail cost to be more to your liking. Silly me. I know, I'll run my business at a loss... that seems fair... and if it COSTS $150 to actually make something then that is EXACTLY what we should sell it for, right?

No, that's you not reading correctly!
I said sell direct, not cut your own leg off to get the 'retail' price down.
The wholesalers/retailers relationship and killing consumers in Oz has been debated here ad nauseum

Grip said:

And finally, thank you for the suggestion re the hinged/swinging wall mount. To be honest though I don't think there's a market for it. Also.. even though you said I doubt that anything that has to hinge out of the way AND still lock in place firmly would be quite as simple (and producible in small numbers) as you may think. Still, I do appreciate the thought.

i mentioned that Bcos I have personally seen 4 LBS's within 5k of me make up their own version of what I suggested. 2 of them swung horizontally.
Who knows how many others have done the same thing???. Might pay to 'fish' the idea around. might be a market after all.

I dont wanna argue with you Grip. I wish we could have as much access to others in the industry. Cheers. Im going out for what we all should be doin. ridin...

Grip said:

Well it's always good to hear feedback on our products... good OR bad... but if you're going to tell us what is right and wrong with pricing OR that $409 is ridiculous for (how did he put it...) a bit of welded tube etc... then for Christ's sake get some knowledge and facts behind you first.

Ok, Ok, don't go getting all emotive on my ass - you're actually confusing two people who don't always see eye to eye on any given topic, and their replies to a post on the relative merits of your and other repair stands.

Here's my story:

I've been using bike stands for most of my working life, and have had a fair acquaintance with the different types and brands, both here and overseas. I like the clamp style design, and like well-designed, time-tested and proven ones even more. Here's hoping . . .

Is it, or is it not true, that you use readily available sections of rod, tube and plate to construct your stands? I may have been a bit sharp and seemed a bit dismissive, but several large companies use castings/forgings and bring their products in at around your (retail) price. Several other companies use (custom)extrusions and pressings, and beat your retail price. I understand the vagaries of manufacturing/retailing a small volume in/from Australia (to overseas), but it's an open market, and I call it as I find it. I can say that I've had a fair aquaintance with your product, having worked with them in one shop and in the field supporting events. Your welding is not able to be faulted, and your finish and manufacturing standards are well up to scratch. I'm just saying that the portability and performance need a bit more of a look at if you want to compete with the likes of Park, Topeak, Minoura, Ultimate et al.

Specifically (IIRC, after a while not using them):

The rotating head clamp (after several hundred adjustments) needs a lot of torque to stop it slipping (scared of snapping the weld off the rod/nut). The rubber clamp gasket (?) deforms, and doesn't do much to stop the selected angle sagging to something more acute. Yes, I greased the threads and the underside of the nut, but had to resort to an extension bar on the rod.

Compared to, for instance, the Park forged alloy head, the selection of the tube clamp diameter is imprecise and unwieldy. The cam action is way too sharp, and not progressive enough to feel if you are going to overtighten the clamp on the tube. The little wheels need better bearings. The clamp tension adjustment screw needs a finer thread (more precise adjustment).

The legs (on the floorstanding models) are vulnerable to having the whole assembly bumped/upset, having no positive locking mechanism. The tab screws are too small to get enough torque on the upright to keep the leg/head assembly where you put it. The legs flap around when you're carrying the telescoped stand, sometimes painfully.

It's heavy, if you have to carry it for any distance. Workshop stands are heavy, portable/consumer stands need to be light.

I've made a couple of stands of my own, using commercially available lockdown clamps, with simple and robust adjustment and few sharp edges.

I didn't want to hurt your pride, and sorry for what, on reflection, seems to be a flippant reply, but I wish you well. I've tried to be a bit less flippant and more constructive here. Aussie bike bits that work well and get a rep for it have my vote and my dollar. Make a stand that's better than either a Park PRS, or a Minoura R3000, and I'll buy it.

M "picky [censored]" H