<[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:26:52 +0100, "Sandy" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
I think you may want to rethink this silly example of a static pose.
When you ride, the body moves a lot, all of it.
My counter-example : move your cleat a half-degree off its preferred axis,
ride this way with effort for a hundred km, and tell me if your knee,
ankle,
foot, hip, and all the stuff in between, don't tell that you changed it.
Or
move one back, and the other forward, along the axis. I think you'll find
the same deal arrives. Pain. Good signal that there is value in aligning
your little paws the right way.
Dear Sandy,
If you can't distinguish a 5 mm lateral change of foot
position sitting still and practically motionless, it would
seem silly to believe that you could distinguish it while
heaving on pedals at opposite ends of a circle with a 350
mm diameter and balancing a bicycle.
That's like saying that a bearing that doesn't display resistance, when
gently rotated under no load gives a sure indication that it will behave
perfectly under high load. Not a believer, I.
Quoted message said:As for the half-degree change that you mention, I'd question
the ability of a rider to detect a half-degree change unless
he knows about it in advance. Again, most of the anecdotes
about incredible sensitivity here on rec.bicycles.tech
demonstrate the problem of non-blind testing and the placebo
effect.
Either you never ride in cleats, or you have the most amazing and flexible
cartilege, and dead neurons in your legs. A difference such as I suggested,
or maybe just mildly more, will produce a pain effect. Or, you use cleats,
and don't make any effort in pedaling. I can't say.
Quoted message said:Your proposed half-degree 100 km test might be called an
example of the disagree-bo effect. You're suggesting that a
non-blind infinitesimal change known to the rider should
produce pain--and I expect that a dozen riders told that
they are going to ride 100 km with a half-degree change in
their cleats to demonstrate the importance of mis-alignment
will honestly report pain, even if their cleats are left
untouched.
A half-degree is not infinitessimal in most cases. Don't like the
half-degree, then double it. I don't fuss with the cleats when they are
correct. On the other hand, as the cleat wears, I know it more from the
biofeedback than from optical examination.
Quoted message said:A half-degree swing from the center of a 12-inch foot (my
foot is that big) amounts to moving the end of your big
toenail about 0.05 inches (1.3 mm) to one side.
Inches ? Don't use them. I'll agree on this measure, for argument's sake,
and I assure you that it does make a difference.
Quoted message said:Compare this minute displacement at the tip of your toes to
the kind of wear common in ordinary socks and shoes--and the
amount of side flex in the frame with every crank of the
pedal when you "ride with effort for a hundred km."
If the shoe fits, wear it. The flex is part of the dynamic system which the
body responds to directly. In sum, if your body is more comfortable (less
pained) in one configuration than another, you tire less rapidly, you can
exert more effort, you go faster, you get your kicks from results.
Quoted message said:I'm willing to believe that people can be extremely
sensitive, but it's surprising how often claimed
sensitivities vanish with blind testing.
Here's a recent and amusing comment on how suggestible we
are:
Only amusing, not illuminating, and not pertinent.
Quoted message said:Naturally, anyone who raises skeptical questions about
claims for extraordinary sensitivity must be:
We are not examining the extraordinary. You prefer to distort ?
Quoted message said:a) ready to learn that apparently implausible claims can
turn out to be supported by blind testing
Positing that something is implausible is not what was done here. Language
games are another false route.
Quoted message said:b) careful to emphasize that the claims are likely to be
made quite honestly and sincerely
"Claims" is being used to deride factual results. Sophomoric, at best.
Quoted message said:c) comfortable with the likelihood that no amount of testing
and demonstration will change some deeply held convictions
I seem to remember that this was the rebuttal originally used against
"claims" that asbestos, tobacco, and other nasty things did not stand up to
a scientific examination.
Quoted message said:d) resigned to the fact that few of us react well to
questions about our deeply held convictions about our
abilities
Some of us, however, are satisfied with the idea that you learn to keep your
hands out of flames from negative experiences. A deeply held conviction ?
Would you like to debunk this, also, by empirically proving it untrue, with
your own hands ?
Quoted message said:To give a faintly related example, in one thread here on
rec.bicycles.tech it was claimed that a pet theory could be
demonstrated by having a rider hold a vigorous steady speed
for three minutes on a flat route--and that he would need a
speedometer accurate to within a tenth of a mile per hour.
Saying that the foot position on the pedal is not important, because
someone's diehard belief that the moon is made of green cheese has been
disproven, lacks something - what could that be ? Maybe relevance ? Maybe
it's a solecism ?
Quoted message said:Carl Fogel
Liked your dedication to testing slime, however. You dealt with concrete
observations. That's what I reported, proposed as experiential, regarding
cleat placement, the trendy Q-factor. I don't believe that the lateral
spacing can't be compensated only by the expensive solution (changing the
crankset) ; rather, I think that the range of cleat adjustment (or in Time
pedals, the lateral mobility) is the most direct and cost-effective
solution.
Liked your Roadmaster stuff, too. We have a DKT clunker that the whole
family uses. It's not comfortable for any long rides at all, but for quick
trips to the baker or newsagent, it suffices. It has a U-factor that we
appreciate - "Ugly", so that no one is likely to steal it, left unlocked a
couple of minutes.
--
Bonne route,
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
