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Re: Top-Posting

Started by Just zis Guy, you know? · · Last activity · 21 posts · 1,051 views

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UK and Europe
Published
18 December 2004
Last activity
20 December 2004
Original author
Just zis Guy, you know?
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21
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  1. On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 04:51:30 +0000, Dave <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don't you find people who complain about top-posting and "netiquette"
    dreadfully boring?

    Yes, and if only OE lusers wouldn't presume their non-standard
    bloatware is necessarily right just because it is given away free by
    that paragon of virtue and supporter of standards-based software,
    Microsoft, it would all be completely unnecessary.

    Guy
    --
    "then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
    blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
    onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
    around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

  2. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, and if only OE lusers wouldn't presume their non-standard
    bloatware is necessarily right just because it is given away free by
    that paragon of virtue and supporter of standards-based software,
    Microsoft, it would all be completely unnecessary.

    What about people who use OE and claim to know what they're doing?

    cheers,
    clive

  3. On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 17:11:10 -0000, "Clive George"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    What about people who use OE and claim to know what they're doing?

    They know that what they are doing is Bad and Wrong, and they mend
    their top-posting ways. Or they are lying about knowing what they are
    doing ;-)

    Guy
    --
    "then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
    blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
    onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
    around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

  4. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 17:11:10 -0000, "Clive George"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    What about people who use OE and claim to know what they're doing?

    They know that what they are doing is Bad and Wrong, and they mend
    their top-posting ways.

    But what if they never had top-posting ways in the first place?

    (Although irritatingly work prefer top-posting and no trimming. Well, they
    pay for it :-) )

    cheers,
    clive

  5. On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:29:39 -0000, "Clive George"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What about people who use OE and claim to know what they're doing?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    They know that what they are doing is Bad and Wrong, and they mend
    their top-posting ways.

    Quoted message said:

    But what if they never had top-posting ways in the first place?

    Then clearly they know what they are doing sufficiently to be Not A
    Problem.

    Quoted message said:

    (Although irritatingly work prefer top-posting and no trimming. Well, they
    pay for it :-) )

    Yes, we have similar conventions. Including leaving the sig in place,
    and including the 18Mb PowerPoint presentation when ccing the entire
    global address book with the comment that the data is now in...

    Or, worse, using cc instead of bcc, so that when the clueless lusers
    click "reply all" to say thanks, you get 800 copies of the same
    f***ing PowerPoint presentation with a one-line "thanks" at the top...

    It is my mission to start cross-charging end users for bandwidth :-)

    Guy
    --
    "then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
    blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
    onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
    around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

  6. Just zis Guy said:


    They know that what they are doing is Bad and Wrong, and they mend
    their top-posting ways. Or they are lying about knowing what they are
    doing ;-)

    Interestingly I top post on work e-mails and bottom post on Usenet.
    Personally though I think all this top/bottom posting stuff is a
    leftover from a time when newsreaders didn't thread and bandwidth was
    limited. These days with threading newsreaders, quick access to
    multiple messages, high volumes of posts and thread drift its far easier
    to use the newsreader threading than rely on reading all the thread
    history in one post before reading the new comment. I personally think
    in current times logic would point to top posting but history has a lot
    of vocal adherents.

    Tony

  7. Just zis Guy said:


    It is my mission to start cross-charging end users for bandwidth :-)

    I'm sure no-one will mind if you recharge what it costs you as long as
    you don't add on handling charges etc for the cost of your recharging
    administration. ;-)

    Tony

  8. On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:49:01 +0000, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

    wrote in message : said:

    I personally think
    in current times logic would point to top posting but history has a lot
    of vocal adherents.

    On Usenet specifically, I disagree. When you look up an old post on
    Google it's handy to have the thing there with its own inbuilt
    context. I think, though, that the most annoying thing about OE and
    using OE's model for Usenet is that the entire previous post (and
    history) is included, complete with sigs, every time, which makes even
    the Google archive unwieldy. I could defend posting with no quoting
    whatever, and I do use the top-post default at work (as everyone
    does), but even then there are occasions at work where I lapse into
    Usenet mode, with interleaved quoting, especially when people ask
    multiple questions.

    In a simple discussion it makes little difference either way, except
    to the people who carry the news feeds (although the cost implications
    of Outlook-style untrimmed quoting must be significant), but when
    dealing with detailed arguments or more technical subjects I genuinely
    think that top-posting reduces clarity. And because I think that, I
    am happy to use interleaved quoting all the time, since it avoids the
    confusion inherent in multiple concurrent "standards".

    Guy
    --
    "then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
    blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
    onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
    around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

  9. Just zis Guy said:

    On Usenet specifically, I disagree. When you look up an old post on
    Google it's handy to have the thing there with its own inbuilt
    context. I think, though, that the most annoying thing about OE and
    using OE's model for Usenet is that the entire previous post (and
    history) is included, complete with sigs, every time, which makes even
    the Google archive unwieldy. I could defend posting with no quoting
    whatever, and I do use the top-post default at work (as everyone
    does), but even then there are occasions at work where I lapse into
    Usenet mode, with interleaved quoting, especially when people ask
    multiple questions.

    I think you are making an arguement about trimming, not about where the
    new material is posted.

    Tony

  10. "Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, and if only OE lusers wouldn't presume their non-standard
    bloatware is necessarily right just because it is given away free by
    that paragon of virtue and supporter of standards-based software,
    Microsoft, it would all be completely unnecessary.

    What about people who use OE and claim to know what they're doing?

    cheers,
    clive

    I use OE and manage to stick to convention. I might top-post in the reply to
    a personal email but I would expect the original sender to know the
    content - after all they wrote it. With usenet you are effectively
    btoadcasting so the convention makes sense.

    Julia

  11. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    | On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:29:39 -0000, "Clive George"
    | <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    | <[email hidden]>:
    ....
    | >(Although irritatingly work prefer top-posting and no trimming. Well, they
    | >pay for it :-) )
    |
    | Yes, we have similar conventions.

    The first place I saw top-posting was Lotus ccMail (IIRC) work email.
    It is quite the norm in in-house emails, in fact I've got complained
    at before now for doing otherwise.

    I don't really see any difference between what works well in news from
    what works well in emails.

    --
    Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph.html

  12. On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:12:38 +0000, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

    wrote in message : said:
    Quoted message said:

    I do use the top-post default at work (as everyone
    does), but even then there are occasions at work where I lapse into
    Usenet mode, with interleaved quoting, especially when people ask
    multiple questions.

    Quoted message said:

    I think you are making an arguement about trimming, not about where the
    new material is posted.

    Above the question?

    Quoted message said:

    Should I post the answer

    ;-)

    Guy
    --
    "then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
    blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
    onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
    around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

  13. Just zis Guy said:

    Yes, we have similar conventions. Including leaving the sig in place,
    and including the 18Mb PowerPoint presentation when ccing the entire
    global address book with the comment that the data is now in...

    Or, worse, using cc instead of bcc, so that when the clueless lusers
    click "reply all" to say thanks, you get 800 copies of the same
    f***ing PowerPoint presentation with a one-line "thanks" at the top...

    Our tech support people always send screenshots pasted into Word
    documents as bitmaps, so a perfectly reasonable 20K .gif becomes a 2MB
    monster.

  14. Clive George said:
    Quoted message said:


    Our tech support people always send screenshots pasted into Word
    documents as bitmaps, so a perfectly reasonable 20K .gif becomes a 2MB
    monster.

    Some versions of word make this work sensibly (ie compress the bitmaps). Not
    entirely sure what the magic runes are though.

    The bigger problem with Word is Fast Save which, if switched on, doesn't
    replace the file but appends the changes. If you change an image it adds
    that image size to the existing file so with a few edits the file can
    bloat beyond recognition. I always have Fast Save off.

    Tony

  15. "Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:41c5bd37.0@entanet...

    Quoted message said:
    Just zis Guy said:

    Yes, we have similar conventions. Including leaving the sig in place,
    and including the 18Mb PowerPoint presentation when ccing the entire
    global address book with the comment that the data is now in...

    Or, worse, using cc instead of bcc, so that when the clueless lusers
    click "reply all" to say thanks, you get 800 copies of the same
    f***ing PowerPoint presentation with a one-line "thanks" at the top...

    Our tech support people always send screenshots pasted into Word
    documents as bitmaps, so a perfectly reasonable 20K .gif becomes a 2MB
    monster.

    Some versions of word make this work sensibly (ie compress the bitmaps). Not
    entirely sure what the magic runes are though.

    (yes, I sometimes get the same problem when people send me screenshots)

    cheers,
    clive

  16. Zog The Undeniable said:


    Our tech support people always send screenshots pasted into Word
    documents as bitmaps, so a perfectly reasonable 20K .gif becomes a 2MB
    monster.

    At the risk of being OT, I once received a 2 Mb, uncompressed
    screenshot, so that I could read an error message, which could
    have been cut 'n' pasted off the screen in about 60 bytes!

    BugBear

  17. "bugbear" <bugbear@trim_papermule_trim.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Zog The Undeniable said:


    Our tech support people always send screenshots pasted into Word
    documents as bitmaps, so a perfectly reasonable 20K .gif becomes a 2MB
    monster.

    At the risk of being OT, I once received a 2 Mb, uncompressed
    screenshot, so that I could read an error message, which could
    have been cut 'n' pasted off the screen in about 60 bytes!

    Only once? You're barely trying.

    cheers,
    clive

  18. bugbear said:
    Zog The Undeniable said:


    Our tech support people always send screenshots pasted into Word
    documents as bitmaps, so a perfectly reasonable 20K .gif becomes a 2MB
    monster.

    At the risk of being OT, I once received a 2 Mb, uncompressed
    screenshot, so that I could read an error message, which could
    have been cut 'n' pasted off the screen in about 60 bytes!

    This interests me. I am currently trying to sort out a problem that
    involves error messages that appear within a particular application. I
    can find no way to select the content of the error message so I can copy
    it and paste it into an email to tech support.

    Any idea how I can perform this trick? I really am tired of transcribing
    several lines of script each time, and I agree with you that sending
    screenshots is not much of an answer.

    --
    Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

  19. JLB said:


    Any idea how I can perform this trick? I really am tired of transcribing
    several lines of script each time, and I agree with you that sending
    screenshots is not much of an answer.

    Do a screen capture, clip it down to the message only and save in
    compressed format which is marginally slower than transcribing it
    usually ;-)

    Tony

  20. "Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    JLB said:


    Any idea how I can perform this trick? I really am tired of transcribing
    several lines of script each time, and I agree with you that sending
    screenshots is not much of an answer.

    Do a screen capture, clip it down to the message only and save in
    compressed format which is marginally slower than transcribing it
    usually ;-)

    Don't forget a window capture is quite a lot smaller (alt-prtscn on windows
    boxes)

    cheers,
    clive

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